The silence from the devs is making things worse

[Nikola515]

1. You have to use Steam to play XR.

Well you dont really for some time, as there is the no-steam.exe and you can buy XR on GoG.com.

Ok so even if you acknowledge that to be true and having an impact you are still left with a huge delta, people don't dislike Steam that much and GoG sales I'd wager represent a small % of XR sales vs the whole. XR as far as I can see lost over 80% of its players within a few hrs of gameplay.

All that matters is that it never happens again there are certain core features that just need to work well day1 as judged by ordinary players.

And that was the point that nobody don't want to accept Instead of Ego expanding universe they should be expanding gameplay and fixing features and adding things that matter. All though universe is small compared to X3 player mostly spend time in one system. For example I focus on DV and trying it to rebuild with numerous mods. It would have been better idea to have rebuild DV, clearing/repopulating maelstrom, finishing PMC and Clearing Albion form Xenon/AGI DLC's than what we had so far. New stations are pointless because we cant build them in Teladi DLC and ships are useless without proper AI.... HoL is pretty much have one new station that is still bugged and everything else is pretty much copy paste from PMC. Also I got to give them credit for weapon mods and I hope they expand on it. And what was point of adding pirates and UT(more free traders) that dont even work?

Perhaps if they addressed some of issues that community have been complaining some of those 80% of people would have been back and perhaps bought some of those DLC's to support Ego....

I must also add it is unfear to put this blame only on DEVS because I don't think they have much saying on what course game will take. Most of blame should be going to their CEO in my personal opinion.

[UniTrader]

please dont confuse the Jobs of diffrent People - expanding/designing the Universe and designing new Ships/Stations is the Job of Modellers like Lino - and he is probably better off doing exactly this instead of adding new Game functionality, because thats something he has only a vague clue about at best. That should be done (and most likely is) by the Coders.

[Nikola515]

Actually art in this game is awsome and he will always have my appreciation for what he did. Art team sure have talent But yes you are right coding and lack mechanics is huge problem in XR....

Perhaps they need more people in that department if it is too much for current team ? Sometimes you need to spend money to make money

[Warnoise]

Obsidian, when they announced that they are working on a sequel of Pillars of Eternity, they already said what they are focusng on and what kind of things they are planning to change. The community really appreciated that since most of the changes that Obisidian is planning to make in the sequel are based on the community feedback.

If Egosoft wants gain the trust of the community back, they should do something similar. Don't take the community for a bunch of deamons who are going to jump onto the neck of the devs for the slightest thing...

[Nikola515]

Good point

Customers prefer open development than actual surprise games that we been having so far. Unfortunately not just with Egosoft but other games that wore being hiden by public eyes ended up to be crap and disappointment. Look at No Man's Sky for example.... It was hidden from public until last second and when it was out it turned out to be crap (simular to XR without over hype ).

Now you take look at Elite Dangerous,Star Citizen,Star Point Gemini 2 and now Warlords,7 days to die and many more..... They are all small teams that managed to pull miracles with their games do to help of community and their feedback and support. Star Citizen would be best example of how small team of devs have grown to AAA with help and support of their community. Also ideas and suggestions that i have seen from some player is mind blowing.... Some say that they are only after money but only time will tell.... I think if Ego share their ideas and what they want to accomplish might help them get enough or even more support to expand in to the new level

[MAUCorp]

Elite Dangerous and Star citizen devs number in their 100's each. ED is about 300 devs if memory serves me. Star Citizen is being built by multiple studios.

[Nikola515]

And did they start that big before they started open development ?

Like i said above it is becuse they wore open from start with their development that attracted more support allowing them to grow

[MAUCorp]

They are large companies that hire and fire according to needs. [Edit: these kinds of companies have multiple projects at a time and move staff about to fascilitate scheduling with project budgets probably the size of Egosofts entire worth] There is nothing indie about them. Its a fulltime (and thankless) job interfacing with the public and even then most havent the skillsets to do the job well, lets alone smaller outfits with minimal budgets.

Bare bones truth is most people dont want to talk to folks on forums cause its an emotional quagmire of expectation, desperation and misinformation bent towards selfish needs. For the most part. Better to let devs do what they do best, no?

[Nikola515]

I think you are missing the point

They wore small teams from the start just like Ego or even smaller. They had an idea and demo showing some of features that they wanted to do.... People liked that idea so much and they basically started throwing money at them to do it. With extra money they wanted to add more features but they didn't have more time to do it. So they used money to hire more people/studios to get the job done.

Point was that with them having open development and sharing what they want to do allowed them to get enough support (money) to expend until game is done.

Also SPG 2 and Warlords have small crew (even smaller than Egos) and yet they manage to give us high quality games...

[Ketraar]

Point was that with them having open development and sharing what they want to do allowed them to get enough support (money) to expend until game is done.

Open development? Pretty sure you mean something different, I dont see anything else other than announcements of what will be. Especially in the case of ED its not all roses by a long shot looking at peoples reactions to which features are prioritised. Pretty much the same really.

As for SC well that was a kickstarter project and comparing dev cycles and plans is fundamentally different if you NEED people to invest in your project and then also HAVE to keep those investors in the loop. And before the usual butthurt people post, I'm not qualifying which one is better, just pointing out obvious differences.

Quick side note, ED's completion plan is 7/8 years from now, requiring people to pay 40€ every year (I know they may have discounts, thats besides the point). Not going to mention SC pay-to-win system as it falls in the realm absurdity. Also its an MMO.

Also SPG 2 and Warlords have small crew (even smaller than Egos) and yet they manage to give us high quality games...

I'd argue the quality, but I'm pretty sure "high" is not part of that sentence. But I'll admit it being subjective and grant other may think differently. Oh wait...

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

I haven't played ED so I don't know much about it but I know it started as a small team and that was point of conversations.
SC is a same thing and I might not agree with your play to win but you do have point (at least for now). When game is out you can buy ships with in game money and as far as I know you wont be able to buy ships with real money so it wont be play to win. But that can always change.

And for SPG I should say high quality for price you pay.... Game was 20$ and for it price it is high. Now you look at AAA titles that are 50/60$ they have better quality (sometimes) but so its price high as well. XR was sold as AAA price with 10$ game quality.

It would be possible for Ego to do something similar to what they did to get support form players. As I said before people are tired of surprise games that we wont know nothing about until they are out. Those devs didn't hold back with their info and that is what attracted more players.

[Ketraar]

And for SPG I should say high quality for price you pay.... Game was 20$ and for it price it is high. Now you look at AAA titles that are 50/60$ they have better quality (sometimes) but so its price high as well. XR was sold as AAA price with 10$ game quality.

I understand your reasoning, but I disagree with your analogy. NMS for example, its an indy-game I'd say, still it was priced higher than XR. Now you may think its quality does not justify the price to which I reply it does. The borked launch is a bad thing own and I doubt it would be better if the game was sold for 20€ instead. What I'm saying is, price may have some relation to quality, but only if you add scope to the equation.

Frontier is a publicly trade company with 240 employees and 50 being added. Saying they "started" small may be accurate back in 1994 (have not found much info on it tbh).

As I said before people are tired of surprise games that we wont know nothing about until they are out. Those devs didn't hold back with their info and that is what attracted more players.

People are tired of many things, does not mean they are entitled to anything. I wonder how the Marvel or DC Comics Forums look like.

Thats the distinction I'm trying to make, yes we are all allowed and even encouraged to voice our fears and wishes, but EXPECTING they are taken into consideration is something that will grant many disappointments, mostly cause many are bound to not be considered due to their contradictory nature.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

Problem with NMS is that they promised way too much and they didn't deliver it in the end. There is a lots of features missing that they should have been in a game on first place. It was similar as XR but XR was in much worse shape than NMS. If you pay game 20$ you would expect low standards from that title(it is more like unwritten rule). All though market don't have regulations and pretty much everybody can scam player at this point. Problem is that NMS just like XR devs lost their reputation and they are marked as scam company in their eyes. Do you really think that they will just throw their money for next game knowing that XR's core mechanics are not working properly yet ????

We are not entitled anything from devs just like they are not entitled to our support(money). Also they shouldn't be offended by their community when they say this game is crap and this is not what they asked for.

It would be wise from them to start paying attention to their community.... Business that don't care about their costumers don't last long in this day of age. I'm sure someone will get idea of making game similar to X3 and Egosoft will probably be finished if they don't step up the game....

Edit: So I still think them having more open development would help a lot to regain some of its lost reputation/trust. Also if early access sales/support/donations (whatever you want to call it) is good they can expand game to the next level just like SC did.

[Graaf]

I'm sure someone will get idea of making game similar to X3 and Egosoft will probably be finished if they don't step up the game....

There is hope for Egosoft, because that other entity will probably make the mistake in wanting to make it multiplayer. Just like the idiots at EA with Sim City. They didn't listen to their community either.

Also if early access sales/support/donations (whatever you want to call it) is good they can expand game to the next level just like SC did.

I'm not entirely against a kickstarter for X4. As long as it is for X4 and not Rebirth 2.

[Ketraar]

It would be wise from them to start paying attention to their community....

What do you mean start? Are you being purposely obtuse? If so let me know I have other ways to waist my time.

Problem is that NMS just like XR devs lost their reputation and they are marked as scam company in their eyes.

Yes but people on the internet are hardly to be taken seriously in general, we know the current mentality of black and white and any signs of nuance are lost. Also doubt many people will take the time to find any nuances and just need to scream stuff out loud to justify their meaningless existence and frustrations, that's why facebook is a hit, no?

If you pay game 20$ you would expect low standards from that title(it is more like unwritten rule).

No I would not. That makes no sense. Its much more complex than that. I would pay 20€ (or what ever sum I happen to decide in any specific situation that cant be ruled by logic) for some games and never play them. I may pay 50€ for a game I THINK will be good and then its not, I will pay 10€ to a game I think its not my thing to be pleasantly surprised. In any of these cases the choice is mine and I wont go on lengthy crusades to teach anyone a lesson. I may write a review, I may give my opinion on it if asked, but that's it, it either stays to my enjoyment or I'll ignore it, its a game after all, not the cure to cancer.

Also they shouldn't be offended by their community when they say this game is crap and this is not what they asked for.

Here you go again. Who is this community, pretty sure I'm part of it and I dont recall you being made spokesperson and no the game is not crap, its objectively not crap. You may not like it, even then its not crap. Its this distinction that keeps me beating this dead horse, you keep assuming you speak for all/most people, but you don't, you speak for you, which is quite enough tbh, as does everyone else.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

@Ketraar

People that have been complaining for past 3 years to fix XR or people who have been complaining that we want to fly all ships(just some of may examples)....... And what did we get for next title ???? Probably reused XR with S/M ships with same broken game core features that are yet to be fixed. This might be best game for you ever but number and charts or game reviews (that you say that are irrelevant ) are saying otherwise. But hey lets ignore all that and say that nobody ever said anything.

But if you want to protect Ego so bad and think that everything is fine that is your choice. Anyway time will tell what is going to happen and I will not look forward of saying who was right

@Graaf

We are not going to se X4 any time soon.... It is probably going to be XR2 with small improvements if any. Add a ship or two and make it look pretty Something what they did with X3R,TC,AP... Anyway I think XR is probably going to be last game I got from them do to way things are going

[VincentTH]

@Ketraar

People that have been complaining for past 3 years to fix XR or people who have been complaining that we want to fly all ships(just some of may examples)....... And what did we get for next title ???? Probably reused XR with S/M ships with same broken game core features that are yet to be fixed. This might be best game for you ever but number and charts or game reviews (that you say that are irrelevant ) are saying otherwise. But hey lets ignore all that and say that nobody ever said anything.

But if you want to protect Ego so bad and think that everything is fine that is your choice. Anyway time will tell what is going to happen and I will not look forward of saying who was right

@Graaf

We are not going to se X4 any time soon.... It is probably going to be XR2 with small improvements if any. Add a ship or two and make it look pretty Something what they did with X3R,TC,AP... Anyway I think XR is probably going to be last game I got from them do to way things are going

IMHO, that critic of yours is too hash. We don't know what is in the next game yet, just a hint of being able to fly 2-3 more medium ships. That does not a game make.

[bambikaka]

@Ketraar

People that have been complaining for past 3 years to fix XR or people who have been complaining that we want to fly all ships(just some of may examples)....... And what did we get for next title ???? Probably reused XR with S/M ships with same broken game core features that are yet to be fixed. This might be best game for you ever but number and charts or game reviews (that you say that are irrelevant ) are saying otherwise. But hey lets ignore all that and say that nobody ever said anything.

But if you want to protect Ego so bad and think that everything is fine that is your choice. Anyway time will tell what is going to happen and I will not look forward of saying who was right

@Graaf

We are not going to se X4 any time soon.... It is probably going to be XR2 with small improvements if any. Add a ship or two and make it look pretty Something what they did with X3R,TC,AP... Anyway I think XR is probably going to be last game I got from them do to way things are going

IMHO, that critic of yours is too hash. We don't know what is in the next game yet, just a hint of being able to fly 2-3 more medium ships. That does not a game make.

most said the same before XR release and see what happened? i wouldnt have high hopes, very afraid that Nicola will be right again..

[Ketraar]

people who have been complaining that we want to fly all ships

You do realise you just proved my point, yes?

Also side note, avoid hyperbole, as I said in my previous post, read the nuances, dont go all black and white on me. If you dont care to discuss the issues based on SOME sense and all you are after is glossed ranting, then I'm out of this conversation. Not going to allow you to Trumpify this.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

Believe what you will it wont make any difference one way or another...Wall im going to waste my time on other things as well......