[script/mod] ImprovedRaces R15.31 (24.04.2012)

[ThisIsHarsh]

I highly recommend XTC team's Galactic News Service plugin for stuff like this. I've more-or-less completely abandoned message/logbook in MBR, in favour of the GNS instead.

You can overwrite old articles, to keep the info fresh. You can set a timeout for when the article disappears, or have it disappear after being viewed once, or never disappear. Plus other useful stuff. The articles are displayed in alphabetical order, rather than the order they are posted. But it's not a problem if you format your article title with the timestamp prefixed.

Though I suppose you guys don't seem to share my affection for 3rd party library scripts. But then, who does.

[Jack08]

Though I suppose you guys don't seem to share my affection for 3rd party library scripts. But then, who does.

lol, I like to keep code localized, but if a 3rd party library speeds things up without any side effects im all for it

The only reason im not using ECS for IR:CS is because of 3 major conflicts that i wanted to avoid before they became a problem

News seems like an easy thing to implement locally without any libs, and im happy to make the menu, but ill leave that up to rygar

[djrygar]

don't worry about names etc
they can be either randomly generated by GNS or taken from ship.
news has to be processed first anyway

I don't have tiome now for X so there is no rush

[Wintersdark]

Though I suppose you guys don't seem to share my affection for 3rd party library scripts. But then, who does.

Personally, I very strongly wish more people would adopt third party library scripts. It allows all these disparate mods and scripts to work together more seamlessly in the game without compatibility issues and using a common end-user experience.

Also, it saves coding time =)

[Jack08]

without compatibility issues and using a common end-user experience.

Thats definitely not true, the more things using the same library concurrently increces the chance of conflicting code by a large amount

eg:
ECS cant be used with IR because PG/YA already use the hooks that i need

And coding time is relative, can be just as quick to implement functionality if you know how

[djrygar]

for news GNS has always been planned. I like GNS myself and it has functionality I need.

it will require a lot of coding tho, GNS only provides displaying, but there is whole bunch of logic that is required.

I do like external libs and I was voting for ECS - but menus is Jack's domain, and if he says there will be conflict, I don't argue ;p
remember I am graphic designer not software developer (its my favourite excuse)

[Wintersdark]

without compatibility issues and using a common end-user experience.

Thats definitely not true, the more things using the same library concurrently increces the chance of conflicting code by a large amount

eg:
ECS cant be used with IR because PG/YA already use the hooks that i need

I'd argue this was an ECS design issue: It was made, IIRC, specifically for PG/YA and not really intended to be shared broadly.

My interests along these lines, of course, come as an end-user. If, for example, everyone used (a more flexible) ECS, then when I tried a new mod out, I don't need to figure out how communications in that particular mod work. They just work, and in the way I'm accustomed to. I use the same hotkey as the communications are ultimately handled by the same script and as a result I can cut back on the absurdly ridiculous number of hot keys assigned to various functions.

In terms of ECS specifically, I'd love to see a communications library that can provide open ended expandability (to be easily incorporated into new mods) and also grab the games normal communications as well so I can use the same hotkey, same menus etc to request docking permissions, ask for military assistance, or whatever else.

After all, pretty much nobody ever uses just one mod, and the disparity in control systems and UI elements can become very jarring.

[ThisIsHarsh]

Hmm. Yeah that is an issue with ECS, if more than one plugin wants to hook to the same object.

I think just an extra menu layer is required. E.g. if two plugins are hooked to the same object, then when the player comms that object a 'preload' menu comes up allowing the player to select which submenu (i.e. plugin) they want to play with.

Would just require one extra argument in the ECS registration, "title" or something, giving the text for the submenu option if more than one plugin is hooked to the object.

Does this sound about right? I can suggest it in the ECS thread if it will be useful, though pointless giving SK extra work if its not gonna be used.

[Jack08]

Hmm. Yeah that is an issue with ECS, if more than one plugin wants to hook to the same object.

I think just an extra menu layer is required. E.g. if two plugins are hooked to the same object, then when the player comms that object a 'preload' menu comes up allowing the player to select which submenu (i.e. plugin) they want to play with.

Would just require one extra argument in the ECS registration, "title" or something, giving the text for the submenu option if more than one plugin is hooked to the object.

Does this sound about right? I can suggest it in the ECS thread if it will be useful, though pointless giving SK extra work if its not gonna be used.

SK is already panning on making ECS v3, a complete rewrite of ECS to make it more compatible with other scripts, id imagine this is already planed - He didn't say when but

[Baleur]

Is there any way to get the Notoriety Fixer to run standalone from True Relations (which i'd like to keep off)??
Or is there such a script hidden somewhere else? (tried searching the forums but.... never find what im looking for).
Well i used the one in the Cycrow Cheat package, but i'd like an automatic one

Also i have a question about the HotWar option, i turned it on and set the relations to argon/boron vs paranid/split vs terran/atf, everything was cool and awesome BUT..... The races attacked eachothers trading ships! In the description it states that they will attack enemy military ships intruding.

Is it really supposed to attack all trading ships and their "civilian" puny escorts?
This kinda killed the entire economy in my game, if they just attacked the military ships it'd be fine.
Also, are the Yaki lasertower ring of death behind stargates, supposed to attack ALL ships? I've had two sectors have every single trading ship get blown up as they enter / leave, for several ingame hours.
Which also kinda killed the economy until the random roaming defenders managed to take them out.


Thanks

[Jack08]

killed the economy
Thanks

Your economy should be fine if you have the economic booster enabled, To be honest theres not way to know if the economy is 'dead' or 'alive' in X3 because it fluctuates heavily depending on how many holes there are

The original X3TC map has tons of holes that could make it stall


Think about this for a second, If you were at war with another faction, Would you not shoot down the enemy's trading ships that intrude into your sector carrying supply's that are in all likely hood going to fuel the enemy's war effort? besides, even if we wanted to stop them shooting trade ships, we cant as the targeting protocols of every ship in the game are based on relations, And as hotwar changes relations, its not just IR ships that target them, its every ship from that race, targeting protocols cant be modified, they are hard coded in the engine

Your game sounds like its functioning normally to me

If you want the notoriety fixer, you must have true relations, Without true relations enabled the notoriety fixer is more of a cheat script then an utility script - We dont make cheat scripts

IR LT's Self destruct after a period of time (20 mins i think?)

[ThisIsHarsh]

besides, even if we wanted to stop them shooting trade ships, we cant as the targeting protocols of every ship in the game are based on relations, And as hotwar changes relations, its not just IR ships that target them, its every ship from that race, targeting protocols cant be modified, they are hard coded in the engine

You can set the relations (as opposed to notoriety) of individual ships, which will override the relations set by their race (then revert via the 'set relations from notoriety' command). That's how the mediocre vanilla invasion fleets work, which MBR was designed to replace.

Its a lot of hassle to (re)set relations for lots of individual ships, but if any plugin could do it IR could, since it spawns ships rather than uses existing ones.

[djrygar]

yaki LTs have longer lifespan, and they are rebuilt I think, not sure about that.


and yep, X3 economy is basically designed to be dead :>
to make it alive, we need smarter traders.


notoriety fixer CAN be used without true relations. It was not possible before, but when Jack added new menu options, I separated bits of code and now those functions are separated. Yet, without TR it.'s kinda pointless to use fixer - it is waste of CPU in case when you don;t have dynamic relations

[djrygar]

IR's response and Assault ships update relations very often (basically after each kill/change sector routine)

I dont think they are cause of economy being stopped - its economy itself plus changed relations - those traders are most likely being killed by patrols/police/border control etc

[Baleur]

My point was just that the ingame description stated that the races would attack intruding military ships.

In a game based on trading as heavily as X3, to have every single trading ship get destroyed everytime they stray into opposing sectors is a bit excessive.

They are civilians after all, not military ships that pose any threat.
Its like having General Patton send tanks to intercept a truck delivering fruit.

[djrygar]

In a game based on trading as heavily as X3,

LOL

X3 has NOTHING to do with trading.
AI trading in X3 only serves as background to fill void. But it serves no function whatsoever besides 'making impression'

X3 is space shooter, like Space Invaders and the like. It can be even hardly called 'a game' - as games have rules, goals, punishment system etc.

In X3 nothing depends of your action, no matter what you do it changes nothing.
:>

[Jack08]

In a game based on trading as heavily as X3, to have every single trading ship get destroyed everytime they stray into opposing sectors is a bit excessive.

If this is your opinion, then IR is not the plug in for you - YET, in the future maybe, but thats a little while away

My point was just that the ingame description stated that the races would attack intruding military ships.

They are civilians after all, not military ships that pose any threat.
Its like having General Patton send tanks to intercept a truck delivering fruit.

Fruit goes to factory workers, that produce tech, tech goes to factory workers that produce weapons... weapons go to military ships to blow up enemy military ships... Suddenly shooting down food and energy transporters isn't so insane any more is it ? - Not that this even matters, it has almost no effect on the game

[Baleur]

I dont get why everyone's an ass, i was just asking.. Havent played the game nor any mods / scripts in 6 months.

[TrixX]

Why take it personally

Civilians are normal targets in war anyway.

[Sirilius]

To be fair, its a valid tactic to take out the enemy supply lines. I mean hell, look at world war 2. Had the nazi been successful in taking out the atlantic supply route between US and britain.. lets just say rations would of have to be stretched to the limit..

It would be cool if there were large supply convoys in x3 being escorted by capital ships. Or something like that.. but I guess since the economy of x3 doesn't really work anyways.. it would serve no real purpose. Oh and whois to forget about jump drives...