Didn't Bernd do the exact same thing in his "success"-post?Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:You can't count what you can't see... so any declaration of fact EITHER way is pure speculation... to put it simply, nothing more than a complete survey of the customer base (i.e. those who currently own the rights to play a copy) would actually paint the true picture. And I doubt that is going to happen and be visible to us any time soonNoimageavaiable wrote:Yes so if you consider all the people playing TC and AP without Steam, its not just the same amount of players as XR, its way more.Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:Just remember when referring to the Steam statistics that it is "simultaenious" players at a given moment in time being counted. That does not map directly to number of people that actually like the game.
For whole "target audience" and mr. L Bernd
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
-
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Fri, 9. Jan 04, 16:36
-
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
Not really, he might have been a bit premature but it depends on his criteria for success. My guess is meeting certain financial targets, whether they exceeded them and by how much we will probably never know.Graaf wrote:Didn't Bernd do the exact same thing in his "success"-post?Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:You can't count what you can't see... so any declaration of fact EITHER way is pure speculation... to put it simply, nothing more than a complete survey of the customer base (i.e. those who currently own the rights to play a copy) would actually paint the true picture. And I doubt that is going to happen and be visible to us any time soonNoimageavaiable wrote:Yes so if you consider all the people playing TC and AP without Steam, its not just the same amount of players as XR, its way more.Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:Just remember when referring to the Steam statistics that it is "simultaenious" players at a given moment in time being counted. That does not map directly to number of people that actually like the game.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
-
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Fri, 9. Jan 04, 16:36
Sorry I wasn't clear...
I wont dispute the game not being a success from a sales point. You all got it as soon as it got available for pre-order.Bernd wrote:It's crazy to see that more than 10,000 people are playing our game at any one time on Steam (even more if you include those who are in offline mode). Madness!
-
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon, 31. May 04, 09:19
Yo do not need complete data or absolute truth, to see a trend.
If the peak daily is decreasing from statistical PoV, so is the total daily, and the offline.
But hey let's have a debate on statistics as well.
Because you know, statistics are useless and of course everything which employs them, like economics, psychology, or any effect studies... Because there is no way to know, how every single possible subject would act or react.
If the peak daily is decreasing from statistical PoV, so is the total daily, and the offline.
But hey let's have a debate on statistics as well.
Because you know, statistics are useless and of course everything which employs them, like economics, psychology, or any effect studies... Because there is no way to know, how every single possible subject would act or react.
-
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon, 23. Apr 12, 06:07
Obtuse arguments over semantics and unsubtle condescension, check. I've made it to the Egosoft forums.
It doesn't really matter what way the situation is spun, the game is bad and I'll keep telling everything that understands language it is bad until I get either a) a refund b) a snowboard and a refund.
It doesn't really matter what way the situation is spun, the game is bad and I'll keep telling everything that understands language it is bad until I get either a) a refund b) a snowboard and a refund.
-
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Mon, 30. Oct 06, 09:27
I do question the assumptions being made that XRebirth is a success 'from sales point'. Sales surely dropped off soon after release? And has anyone done the maths in $$$ terms ?Graaf wrote:Sorry I wasn't clear...
I wont dispute the game not being a success from a sales point. You all got it as soon as it got available for pre-order.Bernd wrote:It's crazy to see that more than 10,000 people are playing our game at any one time on Steam (even more if you include those who are in offline mode). Madness!
just as a conservative starting point, iirc it has been mentioned that Steam sales alone sold something over 60,000 units then that is just a paltry 3 million bucks, which over seven years would just barely cover the pizza account at Egosoft. I don't think anyone is has gotten overly cashed up from these sales at this point.
Even doubling that amount from including hard copy sales would not have much significance after tax etc. pretty peanuts for nowdays after such a project. and then there may be business loan repayments etc...
[XTrilogy]: Holy Argnu cows! I have found it! An asteroid of pure ore - 100% - I am rich! Now, I just need to find one like that made from silicon. hmmm, where do I want to go today?
X REBIRTH? "JUST A TOURIST until X4 IS RELEASED! Because That SUPERNOVA sure went FUBAR" (Quoting T.Hawk. Read all about it at: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=353678)
X REBIRTH? "JUST A TOURIST until X4 IS RELEASED! Because That SUPERNOVA sure went FUBAR" (Quoting T.Hawk. Read all about it at: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=353678)

-
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Wed, 14. Apr 10, 20:35
Keep in mind they had 3 other releases in those 7 years so they probably aren't in particularly dire straits financially depending on how much the devs get paid.ThommoHawk wrote:I do question the assumptions being made that XRebirth is a success 'from sales point'. Sales surely dropped off soon after release? And has anyone done the maths in $$$ terms ?Graaf wrote:Sorry I wasn't clear...
I wont dispute the game not being a success from a sales point. You all got it as soon as it got available for pre-order.Bernd wrote:It's crazy to see that more than 10,000 people are playing our game at any one time on Steam (even more if you include those who are in offline mode). Madness!
just as a conservative starting point, iirc it has been mentioned that Steam sales alone sold something over 60,000 units then that is just a paltry 3 million bucks, which over seven years would just barely cover the pizza account at Egosoft. I don't think anyone is has gotten overly cashed up from these sales at this point.
Even doubling that amount from including hard copy sales would not have much significance after tax etc. pretty peanuts for nowdays after such a project. and then there may be business loan repayments etc...
-
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
@Graaf: Without knowing the target figures it may still be a success. The 10k comment would seem to intimate it exceeded his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
@TommoHawk: I got the sense during pre-release discussions that the cost of development was funded entirely by Egosoft using the proceeds of sales from earlier products (a not uncommon practice in COTS product development). Any proceeds from X-Rebirth are probably considered pure profit to fund on-going work in general terms, recouping the re-investment is probably considered a bonus.
@TommoHawk: I got the sense during pre-release discussions that the cost of development was funded entirely by Egosoft using the proceeds of sales from earlier products (a not uncommon practice in COTS product development). Any proceeds from X-Rebirth are probably considered pure profit to fund on-going work in general terms, recouping the re-investment is probably considered a bonus.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
-
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon, 31. May 04, 09:19
It is my experience that lost trust translates in future loss.Noimageavaiable wrote:Keep in mind they had 3 other releases in those 7 years so they probably aren't in particularly dire straits financially depending on how much the devs get paid.ThommoHawk wrote:I do question the assumptions being made that XRebirth is a success 'from sales point'. Sales surely dropped off soon after release? And has anyone done the maths in $$$ terms ?Graaf wrote:Sorry I wasn't clear...
I wont dispute the game not being a success from a sales point. You all got it as soon as it got available for pre-order.Bernd wrote:It's crazy to see that more than 10,000 people are playing our game at any one time on Steam (even more if you include those who are in offline mode). Madness!
just as a conservative starting point, iirc it has been mentioned that Steam sales alone sold something over 60,000 units then that is just a paltry 3 million bucks, which over seven years would just barely cover the pizza account at Egosoft. I don't think anyone is has gotten overly cashed up from these sales at this point.
Even doubling that amount from including hard copy sales would not have much significance after tax etc. pretty peanuts for nowdays after such a project. and then there may be business loan repayments etc...
-
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri, 18. Jan 13, 13:00
So, rebirth dissapeared from steam top 100 games.
But, thousands of gamers still play in offline mode
Failborn so failborn.
But, thousands of gamers still play in offline mode

Failborn so failborn.

There is my opinion: no more egosoft games, except fully playable DEMO-VERSIONS. I want know what i paid for.
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
-
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon, 31. May 04, 09:19
-
- Posts: 2128
- Joined: Sat, 7. Feb 04, 20:42
..@ Roger L S ... Without knowing the target figures it may still be a success. The 10k comment would seem to intimate it exceeded his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
OR
Without knowing the target figures it may still be a failure . The 1k still playing would seem to intimate it fell below his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
OR
Without knowing the target figures it may still be a failure . The 1k still playing would seem to intimate it fell below his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
-
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
1k of simultaneous players... it would be more interesting to know the number of owners who spend time playing the game on a weekly basis.birdtable wrote:..@ Roger L S ... Without knowing the target figures it may still be a success. The 10k comment would seem to intimate it exceeded his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
OR
Without knowing the target figures it may still be a failure . The 1k still playing would seem to intimate it fell below his expectations, possibly by a very large margin.
You can not really intimate anything from just the temporal simultaneous statistic due to things such as time zone differences, how much time they spend in the game in any given session, and what time of day they actually play the game.
At least for a single player game such as X-Rebirth... and given the time of year there could be other factors preventing some older players with families from spending time in the game.
Last edited by Sam L.R. Griffiths on Fri, 20. Dec 13, 18:53, edited 1 time in total.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
-
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri, 18. Jan 13, 13:00
^ This person does not know the words "tendency" and "trend"
There is my opinion: no more egosoft games, except fully playable DEMO-VERSIONS. I want know what i paid for.
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
-
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
I do, but such things are meaningless without a sufficiently large sample and understanding the basis of the sample PLUS the actual significance of the metric.rpek32 wrote:^ This person does not know the words "tendency" and "trend"
Ok, a big surge of players at release - well over the expected average figures - and a rapid drop off due to bugs, players being disappointed with the content, etc. The software has improved but is still buggy, most of the players are probably beta testers and there are possibly a large number just waiting for "their favourite issue" to be addressed. In addition, there is the average age group of the audience, and the consideration for real life issues that may affect their game playing habits.
All in all, a lot of variables and conditions which most likely make any assessment of the Steam simultaenious playing figures a bit skewed (especially given the circumstances). If the game was fully working and this was not a festive time of the year for (at least) Christian nations, then we could perhaps intimate something from the figures... even then a measure of the "active owners usage" would still be more valuable as a like/dislike or support/don't-support metric.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
-
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon, 31. May 04, 09:19
Discard the first 2 days and judge the trend from there?Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:I do, but such things are meaningless without a sufficiently large sample and understanding the basis of the sample PLUS the actual significance of the metric.rpek32 wrote:^ This person does not know the words "tendency" and "trend"
Ok, a big surge of players at release - well over the expected average figures - and a rapid drop off due to bugs, players being disappointed with the content, etc. The software has improved but is still buggy, most of the players are probably beta testers and there are possibly a large number just waiting for "their favourite issue" to be addressed. In addition, there is the average age group of the audience, and the consideration for real life issues that may affect their game playing habits.
All in all, a lot of variables and conditions which make any assessment of the Steam simultaenious playing figures a bit skewed. If the game was fully working and this was not a festive time of the year for (at least) Christian nations, then we could perhaps intimate something from the figures... even then a measure of the "active owners usage" would still be more valuable as a like/dislike or support/don't-support metric.
Festive? Compare with other games for adjustment?
I don't say you are wrong, but instead of bashing statistics, you might want to pick some data which supports your theories.
-
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
As far as I am aware there are no such statistics readily available - and I am not bashing statistics just indicating the usage of this specific statistic in the way that some seem to be trying to is flawed.dzhedzho wrote:instead of bashing statistics, you might want to pick some data which supports your theories.
The simultaneous user statistic does have value, but not so much in the context it is trying to be exploited and certainly not in the way it is trying to be interpreted (IMO).
The simultaneous user statistic has much more relevance to us as players for multi-player games (e.g. Defiance, Rift, Dungeon Siege, and many others) as it gives a sense of when we are most likely to find players to play with or against.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
-
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri, 18. Jan 13, 13:00
@ mr. Roger
if you read what you write, so nothing matters: no reviews or statistics. Nothing matters except your belief that this is a good game. Do not you find it strange?
if you read what you write, so nothing matters: no reviews or statistics. Nothing matters except your belief that this is a good game. Do not you find it strange?
There is my opinion: no more egosoft games, except fully playable DEMO-VERSIONS. I want know what i paid for.
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
Waiting X4 for PC
[ external image ][ external image ]
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=359047&start=0 it's for L. Bernd
-
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon, 31. May 04, 09:19
This perhaps?Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:As far as I am aware there are no such statistics readily available - and I am not bashing statistics just indicating the usage of this specific statistic in the way that some seem to be trying to is flawed.dzhedzho wrote:instead of bashing statistics, you might want to pick some data which supports your theories.
The simultaneous user statistic does have value, but not so much in the context it is trying to be exploited and certainly not in the way it is trying to be interpreted (IMO).
The simultaneous user statistic has much more relevance to us as players for multi-player games (e.g. Defiance, Rift, Dungeon Siege, and many others) as it gives a sense of when we are most likely to find players to play with or against.
Or this?
-
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon, 23. Apr 12, 06:07
0% of what are considered professional reviewers reviewed this game favorably. 23% of the 1072 on metacritic gave the game a 10/10 but elaborate the game isn't good they just think the score should be higher.
I have the game, and think it is bad. It may be an opinion but it parallels with the overwhelming response that the game is not worth money.
Maybe some could say the sample size for the player statistic isn't large enough to make an inference, but coupled with the reviews it paints a pretty clear picture.
I have the game, and think it is bad. It may be an opinion but it parallels with the overwhelming response that the game is not worth money.
Maybe some could say the sample size for the player statistic isn't large enough to make an inference, but coupled with the reviews it paints a pretty clear picture.