Current [POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[Santi]

According to the wording of the poll, you have 3 answers, yes, no and maybe. The reason of the maybe, steam free etc.. is irrelevant, still is maybe, an unknown quantity. So results should be grouped in the 3 possible answers, otherwise you are skewing the results and that implies, that the poll was worded that way to manipulate the results.

[Ebany]

there is "yes", everything else is a "no". The maybe's are "no" unless certain conditions change, which as the pages of arguing in this thread suggest, they have not.

Fact is this;
Less than 80% of people who took this poll said they would buy X:Rebirth if it was exclusive to Steam. That's certainly better than the last poll which was less than 70%.

[Chris0132]

No, you've got one yes, one no, and four maybes.

The maybes don't tell you anything useful, as you've no way of knowing if they will turn into a yes or a no.

It's not what you thought when you made the poll that matters, it's what other people read the poll as.

It is technically correct to say 'less than 80% said they would buy the game' however the issue with that is that the implication is that 20 said they would not buy the game, which is most certainly not true.

What you actually have is '77% said they would buy the game, 19% said they may or may not buy the game, 4% said they would not buy the game.'

[Ebany]

So "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." makes up 9% of the votes. What your saying is that the fact there is a "maybe" in there means these people will possibly still buy a copy through Steam?

I can only suggest you read the comments people wrote when they voted, specifically the ones related to the "maybe" votes.

[Chris0132]

So "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." makes up 9% of the votes. What your saying is that the fact there is a "maybe" in there means these people will possibly still buy a copy through Steam?

I can only suggest you read the comments people wrote when they voted, specifically the ones related to the "maybe" votes.

I'm saying you had an option for people to vote 'no' if they wanted to.

You can't add a bunch of options that are not 'no' and then roll them into the 'no' vote at the end to make it look bigger. You had an option that said no and the people who voted maybe quite explicitly did not vote no.

You present the results of the poll as accurately as you can, which is not 'less than 80% said they would buy it'.

How do we process the ones which say 'but only to support egosoft' or 'but I would prefer another provider' under your system? Do we say they count as 'yes' votes? They sound quite positive after all, just because you would prefer another provider doesn't mean you won't buy steam.

No, we show the results accurately, if you must make them more concise, you do so while retaining accuracy. 77% said they would buy the game, 19% said they may or may not buy the game, 4% said they would not buy the game.

[Slashman]

Since when is 77% an 'only'?

[Chris0132]

Since the objective of the exercise became to make the other percentage seem as important as possible.

[Ebany]

That's your objective Chris. I care neither for a yes/maybe/no answer except as a point of interest, and possibly some extra data for EgoSoft, you seem to view it as a point of contention.

I can't guess at why you fail to understand that if a person votes "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." that means "no" because EgoSoft are not giving out DRM-Free versions to everyone who buys a Steam version.

The same applies to the "No, I'll immolate myself before that day comes!", I really don't expect these people to sacrifice their bodies in a pillar of flame.

I realise English is not necessarily the primary language for many of us so excuse any mistakes I've made, but so far I've not seen too many other people who failed to understand the primary purpose of this poll, nor its results. Please read the initial post again. If still you have the same view then nothing myself or anyone else can say will have any impact on you.

[Chris0132]

Because that's not how statistics works!

You don't make a poll with five options then present the results of one as a needlessly inexact figure which gives misleading information about the rest of the votes in the poll.

If you want to identify yes or no, you put up a yes or no vote, then you can say 'people voted yes or no'.

You cannot say (or attempt to imply) that '20% of the people voted no' when it says, right up there in the poll, that 4% of the people voted no.

It'd be like saying, in the last UK general election, that all the people who voted liberal democrat actually support the conservatives because the two parties formed a coalition government after the results were published. You do not say what you want or what you think the poll should mean, you publish the results in a simple, yet accurate format.

There is nothing partial or misleading about what I'm saying is the correct format for phrasing the results, it just gives you the numbers that are at the top, you can draw whatever the hell conclusion you want from it, but there is no debate about proper statistical procedure.

A vote indicates only what it is. A vote is someone saying 'I intend to do this.' It is not proof of what the person will do, because people often do other things than what they say they will, often because circumstances change over time. Which is why, when you publish the results of a poll, YOU PUBLISH IT AS THE RESULTS OF THE POLL AND NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS PEOPLE WILL DO.

All you can say is 'I asked people a question and they gave these answers.' Not, 'I asked people a question and they gave these answers but this set of answers actually count towards this other answer because if you look at the technical meaning it would work out to be this other answer so those people actually voted for the other answer even though they didn't.'

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

From the figures to date:-

~77.25% (197/255) are definite yes will buy

~14.9% (38/255) are definite no as long as Steam DRM is involved

and the remainder ~7.8% (20/255) are undecided.

It would be interesting to note if 255 is a sufficiently large sample of the customer base... my guess is not.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

I can't guess at why you fail to understand that if a person votes "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." that means "no" because EgoSoft are not giving out DRM-Free versions to everyone who buys a Steam version.

The problem is this poll suffers from exactly the same problem as the last one did. Needlessly leading and emotively worded options and an excess of half-arsed choices that serve only to confuse matters as one side or the other attempts to argue that a "maybe" choice somehow magically equates to a "yes" or "no".

If your goal was to establish the split between those who would buy Rebirth with a Steam requirement and those who would not then you should have kept it to a simple, neutrally worded, yes or no statement. For example, something along the lines of:

"Egosoft have announced that Rebirth will require Steamworks to play. Do you still plan to buy the game. Yes/No"

As it is the poll shows exactly what I said it shows. A mere 4% of those polled have decided "No". The remaining mix of "Maybe" answers are as yet undecided so contribute nothing either way.

If you really want to get fun with it of course you can always look at it from the perspective that of those polled that actually expressed a definite preference the Pro-Steam camp at this time presently has a mighty 200 for to 12 against = 94% positive result.

[EmperorJon]

I too agree with the sentiment that if you're looking to actually gather reasonable statistics it should be

"Yes"
"No"

(Don't vote if you don't know...)

[Ravenhurst]

It´s funny how some people can hate a simple browser window showing their local game library, where they open their game from.

Which basically is Steam.

[Ebany]

Because that's not how statistics works!

.......

when it says, right up there in the poll, that 4% of the people voted no.

.......

There is nothing partial or misleading about what I'm saying

You are been misleading. Read the comments attached to those votes, the people have said why they voted maybe. The conditions they stated have not been meet, which means their answer is a "no" by default.

10% said "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." EgoSoft are not giving out DRM-Free copies, hence the answer is a "no" by default.

You're also assuming no-one else will vote from here in and are failing to take into account the previous poll results, which I might add were taken before we had a swarm of fresh people coming to check out the site from Steam's advertising. So if you really feel the need to get "technical" and put me in my place because you believe no-one else is smart enough to actually read the results on the top of the page, then at least do some research and get your details correct. I realise your a huge fan of Steam, I was not attempting to demean them in anyway.

From the figures to date:-

~77.25% (197/255) are definite yes will buy

~14.9% (38/255) are definite no as long as Steam DRM is involved

and the remainder ~7.8% (20/255) are undecided.

It would be interesting to note if 255 is a sufficiently large sample of the customer base... my guess is not.

The point I've been trying to make to Chris.

[Ebany]

I can't guess at why you fail to understand that if a person votes "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." that means "no" because EgoSoft are not giving out DRM-Free versions to everyone who buys a Steam version.

The problem is this poll suffers from exactly the same problem as the last one did. Needlessly leading and emotively worded options and an excess of half-arsed choices that serve only to confuse matters as one side or the other attempts to argue that a "maybe" choice somehow magically equates to a "yes" or "no".

If your goal was to establish the split between those who would buy Rebirth with a Steam requirement and those who would not then you should have kept it to a simple, neutrally worded, yes or no statement. For example, something along the lines of:

"Egosoft have announced that Rebirth will require Steamworks to play. Do you still plan to buy the game. Yes/No"

As it is the poll shows exactly what I said it shows. A mere 4% of those polled have decided "No". The remaining mix of "Maybe" answers are as yet undecided so contribute nothing either way.

If you really want to get fun with it of course you can always look at it from the perspective that of those polled that actually expressed a definite preference the Pro-Steam camp at this time presently has a mighty 200 for to 12 against = 94% positive result.

Instead of criticising the poll, why not attempt to contribute. If you really hate it that much, make your own, no-ones stopping you. It shows a distinct flaw in character to come to this thread and abuse me for my pathetic attempt at making a poll.

Of coarse you've really done nothing constructive since I started this poll, so don't stop now. Unless you've finally grown sick of criticising my efforts and wish to tell us what you voted and why? I though not.

[Chris0132]

OK.

More than 80% of people said they would buy it.

[EmperorJon]

Instead of criticising the poll, why not attempt to contribute. If you really hate it that much, make your own, no-ones stopping you. It shows a distinct flaw in character to come to this thread and abuse me for my pathetic attempt at making a poll.

Of coarse you've really done nothing constructive since I started this poll, so don't stop now. Unless you've finally grown sick of criticising my efforts and wish to tell us what you voted and why? I though not.

Explaining why he thinks your poll is invalid is not equal to abusing you...

[Ebany]

OK.

More than 80% of people said they would buy it.

See, that wasn't too hard. Good for you. Its still incorrect, but you tried, that's the main thing.

[Chris0132]

OK.

More than 80% of people said they would buy it.

See, that wasn't too hard. Good for you. Its still incorrect, but you tried, that's the main thing.

Of course it's incorrect, it's bloody stupid weasel wording and interpreting the answers to fit a pre-existing conclusion.

That you aren't objecting to it on those grounds is the most depressing thing.

[Ebany]

Instead of criticising the poll, why not attempt to contribute. If you really hate it that much, make your own, no-ones stopping you. It shows a distinct flaw in character to come to this thread and abuse me for my pathetic attempt at making a poll.

Of coarse you've really done nothing constructive since I started this poll, so don't stop now. Unless you've finally grown sick of criticising my efforts and wish to tell us what you voted and why? I though not.

Explaining why he thinks your poll is invalid is not equal to abusing you...

I've read all the previous posts he's made about my efforts, and none even border on the pleasant side of neutral.