[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 14:33

I don't think you need to change resources to change the price. Its just a set price in TWareT. But it does mean that we seriously increase the profit margin with satelites. Hmm... perhaps a more conservative price increase for satelites? Of course that will in turn mean I may have to drop the scanner prices a bit too.

I agree prices need to go up across the board - but where do we draw the line with this mod. I certainly don't have the time to start modifying every price in the game.

I will up both the mineral and freight scanner then. Any others?

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 15:10

paulwheeler wrote:
........but where do we draw the line with this mod. I certainly don't have the time to start modifying every price in the game........

I do understand - and that is the big issue - Balancing the areas in the scope of this Mod can have a negative impact in areas outside of its boundaries - The reason I'd said about the resources required to build an Advanced Satellite were to do with precisely that - Resource cost for a satellite is around 6,000 at present - If that sells for a million you have an issue UNLESS the resource cost went up to 600,000 - which is blatantly crazy - and further you'd then have to talk about the factory price being upped to 300,000,000 or so. - I would personally (if doable) change the size category and ware volume of the satellite and leave the price alone (as resource requirements and factory price are fixed).

Antheus · Post by **Antheus** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 16:01

I'm not exactly sure WHOSE input your looking for, but I defiantly support those wares costing/being more rare. Buuuut as said, adjusting the Satellite prices like that would have some harsh economical concerns. (and potentially exploitable - _ -) I do look forward to it for when it comes out though! I don't have any balanced*** ideas about the sats.

On SRM: THANKYOU FOR FIXING MY ALBY!! (and the other Teladi Cargo bays)

Gavrushka wrote:I've made my position clear - All prices are far too cheap - Be it equipment, ships or prices. - I support prices going up hugely - BUT the problem is the scope of this Mod is ships not factories - and as soon as you change equipment prices you do unbalance it against some of the other elements of the game - Factories and ships - I think an entry level M5 should be 1,000,000 a Destroyer should be a billion credits -

A mineral scanner should cost a fortune - An equipped TS can pick up 1000 ore in a couple of game hours - value of Cargo (average) 128,000 -It can make a million a day easy - 365,000,000 a year!! - Not many investments give a return in minutes - Even at a million credits it'll only take a day to put you in profit. - BUT maybe that is too much realism for people.

Although I somewhat agree, I hardly have the time to manage regular X as it is! (Let alone I don't need another excuse to leave my compy/X on 24/7)

EDIT: Just btw, the Mk1 Pheonix has the 4th highest Shield Gen at 75,000. (Regular Pheonix @ 17,000) I'm assuming that's an error! Also: Nice spreadsheet!

vkerinav · Post by **vkerinav** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 17:22

One could seriously alter the difficulty of this game just by reducing mission availability/rewards. Perhaps even by reducing the resale value of ships.

You can't start revaluing player-producible wares without altering resource inputs, presumably by increasing the price. Increasing the amount needed would unbalance the entire economy. Minerals would need to stay cheap, to minimize Gavrushka's mobile mining concerns, which would create problems with factories which use them--by increasing net profits.

No. Revalue equipment, but not trade goods. Increase ship and factory prices if you like. Make the Ore Collector, not the scanner, much more expensive. You could even irritate people by making it an ST class ware(and reduce the cargo capacity of TS Miners, to make up for the built-in collector).

You could increase the ware-size of any non-software upgrades. Transporter to L; docking computer to XL(and you could reduce its range, while you're playing around in Globals.)

I don't know how much of this is a good idea. I support limiting the use of upgrades, and a reasonable price increase on some items, but you should be careful not to slow the game down too much.

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 19:03

I certainly dont want to get into repricing traded goods. I also agree that I should keep the price of sats low.

However, surely the point if this is to make the game harder. Credits are far too easy to come by. This will be an optional pack anyway, not built into the srm.

So I will limit repricing to ship systems only. How do people feel about increasing the cost of engine and rudder tunings?

Railgunner · Post by **Railgunner** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 20:01

Did you alter the pirate M1 in 0.69?? it's speed appears to have dropped.....

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 21:08

Nope - Just double checked and the Galleon is at the same speed and max engine tunings as it has been for the last few versions.

Should be

min speed - 70

max speed - 112

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 21:49

Quick check - Buzzard Hauler - Is it meant to have 8 lasers?

Railgunner · Post by **Railgunner** » Wed, 28. Apr 10, 22:15

Then check again, mine is stuck at 83.something as max speed....

a butternut squash · Post by **a butternut squash** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:07

Hopefully this isn't an idiot question but does

any existing ships that have been changed in major ways (any new external docking, hull, turret or shield changes) will need to be recreated before they function correctly. This is easily done using Cycrow's cheat script and the "clone ship" command. Once cloned simply destroy your old ship. Hull values can be corrected using the reload hull and shields command.

mean that I'd have to go through the whole game cloning and destroying big ships or just ones in sector when the patch is applied?

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:14

I think it is a reference to your player ships! - The alternative would be a bit harsh....

a butternut squash · Post by **a butternut squash** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:18

Even if it's just player ships it's still a huge deal in my current game

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:19

You only have to clone your own ships, and only then if a ship has changed significantly . It is all ships you own in the universe, not just in sector. The external docking will not work until a ship is cloned. Ai ships will be corrected by God after a while.

Non-cloned ships will still work. They may just not have some updated stats and as I said, external docking will not work.

The galleon has definately not changed. Are you sure your ships hull isn't damaged or you havent maxed out engine tunings ? Are you sure you haven't installed another mod that changes tships ?

Ill check the buzzard hauler tomorrow, but its not a ship I have touched. Perhaps its something from the original srm?

a butternut squash · Post by **a butternut squash** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:27

paulwheeler wrote:You only have to clone your own ships, and only then if a ship has changed significantly . It is all ships you own in the universe, not just in sector. The external docking will not work until a ship is cloned. Ai ships will be corrected by God after a while.

Haha OK. I think it would be easier for me to restart the game and give myself a cheat boost to get things rolling quicker.

At least it gives me an excuse to try the tormented teladi start

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 00:29

It could be from original SRM not a ship I'd paid too much attention to previously- I'm just checking through stats from Blueprints at HQ as I get a chance; the other Buzzard Variants had 6.

I haven't been able to find the enhanced shipyard - I'd been looking to test out the new M6 variants - I may resort to spawning, flying, destroying.

I've had no spawns of any MK1 ships at all so far and none offered in 2nd hand ship missions, but I'll keep checking.

Railgunner · Post by **Railgunner** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 01:59

The only mods I have installed are the ones listed as tested and compatible, And it's maxed tuning wise, and undamaged....

(For some reason it seems as if none of the changes are present, the only thing that seems to be working is the External docking...)

vkerinav · Post by **vkerinav** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 02:23

83 m/s is the vanilla max speed for the Galleon. Is it possible you failed to install SRM properly after the recent patch?

Railgunner · Post by **Railgunner** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 02:42

I'm not sure, the External docking is working but all other stats are stock TC, it was working fine until I updated both TC and SRM....

I have Pirate Guild, Military Base Response Revamp, Improved Races, Race Responce Fleets, NPC Bailing Addon, MARS, Amurph0's Shipyards, Medusa Missile system, and Advanced Jumpdrive installed.....

Railgunner · Post by **Railgunner** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 05:15

AH HA!!! Found it, Seems that I'd unwittingly installed the Source Trail and Cockpit mods!! I guess they screwed up the Tships file....

BTW: Could you take the newer version of Killerogs Trail mod and fix some of yours problems, For instance the middle engine of the BlastClaw doesn't have a Emitter for Particles, Also on the Pirate Kestrel the particles are the pirates but the glow that extends out from the engine is green...

(As of current build...)

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Thu, 29. Apr 10, 10:05

Gavrushka wrote:It could be from original SRM not a ship I'd paid too much attention to previously- I'm just checking through stats from Blueprints at HQ as I get a chance; the other Buzzard Variants had 6.

I haven't been able to find the enhanced shipyard - I'd been looking to test out the new M6 variants - I may resort to spawning, flying, destroying.

I've had no spawns of any MK1 ships at all so far and none offered in 2nd hand ship missions, but I'll keep checking.

Just checked and 8 guns for the Buzzard Hauler is the vanilla amount. I suppose this is a bit silly as the Hauler varients are aimed more at traders.... I'll remove two of the guns.

I tried to hide the enhanced shipyard to make it a bit of a challenge. The clues are in the main post - in a pirate or teladi sector (hint, hint - perhaps a pirate sector near teladi space...). Look out for a trail of nav beacons leading out of the centre of the sector and follow them.

I don't think Mk1's will spawn with vanilla jobs, but they will with the Military Responce Revamp. Not sure about RRF and apparently they do spawn if you have race invasions activated with Improved Races.

Railgunner wrote:AH HA!!! Found it, Seems that I'd unwittingly installed the Source Trail and Cockpit mods!! I guess they screwed up the Tships file....

BTW: Could you take the newer version of Killerogs Trail mod and fix some of yours problems, For instance the middle engine of the BlastClaw doesn't have a Emitter for Particles, Also on the Pirate Kestrel the particles are the pirates but the glow that extends out from the engine is green...

(As of current build...)

That'll be the one! Glad you got it sorted. The version already in SRM is Killerog's current version (all his latest updates are from files I sent him). Perhaps I missed the Blastclaw scene file from his if he fixed it. I'll check it out.

I will be sorting out all the engines for all ships. I've already sorted out all Teladi and Split ships. I will be sorting out Argon and Paranid next. Then I'll fix the remaining ones.

If you spot a non-main race ship that does not have the right emitters please post it here. I can't possible go through checking every ship! for example, Yaki ships, pirate ships, ATF ships etc.

-------------------

Regarding the Systems Rebalance Pack - my current thinking is this: All systems that are just software upgrades only get a small price increase. Systems that would actually require some parts installed get much heavier price increases (scanners, life support, transporter device etc.). Anything that is manufactured (i.e. satelites) do not get much of a price increase but I will up the ware size for advanced sats. Illegal stuff (override software) gets a hefty price rise.

Triplex and Duplex scanners get a range increase. Sats do not. Essentially this means the Duplex takes over from the vanilla Triplex (although not quite as good) and then the Triplex will be much better than that but has a ware size of XL. Think about it like this - sats only have a small power generator. Capital ship scanners have the ships power to draw on so are more powerful.

Tunings will get a price increase. Jumpdrive to XL. Transporter to M.

Comm range to 70KM. Transporter to 7KM. Docking computer down to 3km.

Both equipment docks and hub will get a storage increase to make them usable (just coz this is in the globals file too!)

EDIT -

After playing around it now costs about 1.5M to max out a Discoverer's engine tunings. The problem is that since there are only a few engine tunings to reach max speed on an M2, these are still pretty cheap. In an ideal world I'd go through all the ships and increase the number of engine tunings on large ships and reduce it on small - but I don't think I have the time for that!

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[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...