[AL PLUGIN] Pirate Guild 3: Dynamic AI and Guild System - v1.59 - [2010-07-22]

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Requiemfang
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Post by Requiemfang »

Serial Kicked wrote:Something ain't right with the bounty hunter F/F settings apparently, i'll double check. They should only go berseek if you are a guild member or if you have killed ships targeted by the guild.
hmmm I am a Guild member so that's probably why they are attacking my ships. THOUGH I haven't taken any missions or killed any Guild targets. So I take it that the bounty hunters will still come after me and my ships even if I don't take part in attacks or kill targets... just being a member of the Guild warrants a bounty hunter hit on your ships eh?

also on a side note, I've been playing this with the sector size tships mod along with RRF. I had to remove military base revamp and everything seems to work great now. Even if RRF is a bit outdated it doesn't hang or freeze as much as Military base revamp when using all of these together. I only get hang every few hours now... if not rarely due to to much stuff for my CPU to handle
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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked »

@Requiemfang: Yeah it's intended. Being a guild member had to come with a downside, and hunters are this downside (yeah i know it prevents you from SETA-sleeping, but it's wanted to be that way ^^). As soon as you're a guild member, your ships will be hunted down by bounty hunters (exactly like other AI guild ships). However hunters shouldn't be a big deal: beeing M6 without escort and with a very basic AI. Btw, the plugin only spawn a bountyhunter every hour or so (it's somewhat random). And depending on how strong is the guild, they are dispatched quite quickly.
also on a side note, I've been playing this with the sector size tships mod along with RRF. I had to remove military base revamp and everything seems to work great now. Even if RRF is a bit outdated it doesn't hang or freeze as much as Military base revamp when using all of these together. I only get hang every few hours now... if not rarely due to to much stuff for my CPU to handle
Not sure i understand the first part fully, so just in-case using RRF + MB revamp is a big no no. They basically does the same thing, and so, are totally incompatible.

With RRF alone, my game runs fine except rare hangs when i'm in the same sector as an invasion. When invasions are disabled it works perfectly, even if it has other issues that i've already reported as you know. But it's usually an overkill against my ships, 2 M2 + 5 M5 against my poor lone M6, ouch !

I'm testing MB revamp right now, i had no hang or issues so far, apart its bad habit of going crazy against my lasertowers, but i've not tested it fully. It also has a great advantage over RRF when you're playing against the guild, it will tell you where you can find PG ships to kill. And that's invaluable info to get some decent money.


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@paulwheeler:

Dunno if you are using ADS (can't recall, too many ppl too many setup) but it should balance things a bit. Groups sent by MB revamp should be no match against a base defended with the ADS group AI.

I've let run my test game for a while now. I tried Hard Setup, ADS enabled, station attack enabled (probably an error here), and peace with teladis. MB Revamp is with default settings without Xenon MBs.

15 hours in gametime have passed. And yeah the guild has been mostly wiped out by the MB revamp. There's only 13 PB left out of 20. All of them are outposts, except the usual stronghold in gaian star (i dare any plugin to wipe out the gaian star base without obvious cheating ^^). It's a bit early to judge as the destroyed PB didn't respawn yet, and that the MB revamp fleet has been so heavily damaged that it can't catch every alert.

Enabling Xenon MB revamp should help a lot, but i wanted to try a pure PG vs MB revamp. Well i lost so far, but i'll update this tomorrow when the bases will respawn after the initial push. I'll try different settings (v.hard and no station attacks vs mbrevamp + xenon mbrevamp) too.

3rd party reports are more than welcome, enabling PG debug mode and reading the logfile will help you to see what's going on btw.
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Post by paulwheeler »

Yes I am using ADS (I posted about the issue with my ships losing their names when I use the ADS function - so looking forward to the next update! :D )

I am now running with PG set to hard and with the MB rearguard tokens about halved. I'll let you know what happens. I want to find the happy medium where the two are evenly matched (then I might try adding improved races too to add some spice! :twisted: )

Oh, ought to mention I'm using the OOS combat rebalance too (the old one, not the L3 beta version being tested), the Ship Rebalance Mod and the Combat Mod.

Re: Gaian Star... I kind of build a huge complex there early in my game and I'm a bit loathed to move it, so I'm afraid the PG stronghold bit the dust before it got started in my game. I'm hoping it'll spawn elsewhere. Does get annoying with the pirate ships spawned there so often. Which brings me to...

What is it with the patrol scripts in TC which seem to make your M7 patrols bunch together. Its about time someone (hint, hint, hint... add patrol options to ADS perhaps??? :D ) wrote an enhanced patrol script! I think I preferred the old four point patrol script. At least you could make your ships patrol different parts of the sector.
Requiemfang
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Post by Requiemfang »

Now if LV decided to merge the RRF mod with the military base mod that'd be wonderful as you stated... they are basically the same thing... in a sense with ships jumping in to help their own. I had to turn off the invading sectors cause the NPC races kept taking the unowned sectors. So when ever I get around to getting a HQ I won't have a free place to put it! Here's another thing... lolz if Codea was less complicated it'd be great. I still use it... heck I use both the ADS and Codea. The difference between the two is the ability to used personal to stock your ships and fire the turrets and pilot fighters and bombers another such fleet ships intelligently. The turret thing alone is wonderful cause they automatically switch weapons during battle and start killing nearby enemy ships with great efficiency. Only time I don't use Codea and Mefos is when there are ships that can't support that function where in I use MARS on them
LordArconius
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Post by LordArconius »

I started the PG yesterday. Im in good standings with the paranid but they are red to me. Is this normal?
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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked »

@LordArconius: No. Check the friend/foe settings on your personal ship, you've probably killed a paranid scout in entering a sector or something like that. It's not related to PG anyway (as a matter of fact, PG doesn't alter your relation with other races except the pirates).

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Well nearly 2 ingame days now, and yeah PG is pwned bigtime. Even Gaian star is out of fund and defenders (still not killed however, but it will come). So basically PG on hard settings is no match. I'll try the same thing but without station attack and with v.hard and teladi as foe (as i was ignoring teladi MBR ships in my previous setup) settings to see what's happening. I will run a test without lasertowers as well.

It's kinda weird, MBR shouldn't be able to cripple down PG so much. Not even RRF (which is spawning free ships and sending way too many ships against any threat) does. Dunno yet if MBR spawn new defense ships for free or only use the old ones yet, though.

Anyway it's fun to watch, even for an old bored X-scripter like me :p


@paulwheeler:

Yeah, ADS. To be honest, you'll have to wait a while for any update. Even if I've a somewhat big 'todo' list for this script, i'm satisfied with its efficiency. It's, by far, the best carrier AI available, and that's what's matter to me, so i'm not really interested to update it right now. PG and YA are my "big" plugins and ADS is mostly a means to an end. But yeah i'll update its player-oriented features after YA (and X3:TC 2.6) has been released.
(then I might try adding improved races too to add some spice!)
Beware about Improved Race. Good script, and it should be compatible with PG as the author asked me for compatibility advices. But i don't really know if it works well with other "police scripts". That's often the issue with scripts that want to do an "all-in-one" thingy. Ask the author.
Re: Gaian Star... I kind of build a huge complex there early in my game and I'm a bit loathed to move it, so I'm afraid the PG stronghold bit the dust before it got started in my game. I'm hoping it'll spawn elsewhere.
Yeah I was speaking of a fully built PB in Gaian, not a poor new outpost
:mrgreen:
hat is it with the patrol scripts in TC which seem to make your M7 patrols bunch together. Its about time someone (hint, hint, hint... add patrol options to ADS perhaps??? Very Happy ) wrote an enhanced patrol script! I think I preferred the old four point patrol script. At least you could make your ships patrol different parts of the sector.
Err this should have been posted in ADS topic. But anyway. Well basically set a carrier with "attack all" + auto carrier with 50k radar range = sector safe from whatever the game can throw at it. But yeah without a loaded carrier, the 4 points patrol was as nice as the current vanilla patrol script is sh.. cough! cough! Swine Flu, sorry. But will i put it into ADS? Probably not, it's more likely that i will improve the station defense script instead.


@Requiemfang:

You like to use scripts that does the same thing uh :p RRF/MBR, CODEA/ADS, MEFOS/MARS.. Beware, it may backfire, even if you are careful. Others are not my concern, but with ADS/CODEA they are compatible as long as your don't use them on the same ship. And to make a short summary. If you want micro-management and (cheaty) docking of TS/TP to carriers, CODEA is great. If you want no brainer kill/death ratio, ADS is best.


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Time to get some sleep and let the new settings apply agains MBR. If it won't works i'll have to add new "decoy" and "Kill Military base" missions in the 1.6x serie ^^.

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Edit: BTW scripts like the OOS rebalance from Gazz, which is very good but that's not the point, are still killing the efficiency of PG bigtime. As they basically favor big ships over fighters. PG fighter wings are scaled to deals with vanilla OOS settings.
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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked »

Yay, over 3 game days in MBR vs PG. No bug, no error, no game crash. No slow-down'o'death. Good stuff. Still has to check some of the inner code to be sure i'm not missing a possible 'silent' incompatibility, but everything is ok so far.

Game Settings:
New start - No 3rd party plugins.
MBR: Default - No Xenon MBR
PG: Very Hard - ADS - No Station Attacks - War with Teladis


During the first game day, as usual PG bases in legit sector got their ass kicked apart from a few ones. Lowest PB count = 11. There's only a few bases that will remain in legit sectors like New Income. Usually, the more far away is a PB from the sector center, the more safe it is. It mainly has to do with the fact that the pirate M7 will be able to jump quickly to the jump beacon and will be ready way before the MBR fleet arrive.

The second day PB start respawning, and PG got a bit "lucky" here as most of the PB directly spawned in Pirate, Yaki or Unknown territory. The bases unlucky enough to spawn in the middle of legit sectors got destroyed quite quickly. New bases are not attacked by the MBR has it's too busy dealing with raiding parties (i guess).

After 3 days, there's 18 PB, which are "Pirate Guild Bases" apart from 2 Strongholds and 3 Outposts. Most of them have full LT and some have patrol M6.

It would seems that PG is doing good. But let's go to the economics. Funds in the PB are very very low. Basically because Pirate Bases are too busy defending themselves or dispatching military patrols to think about raiding TS/TP/TL ships. Some tunings to the AI decision maker could be needed here. The main effects of this:
- PB build less fighters
- PB don't buy enough M7 to fill the defense grid (10 bought during 3 days :/, thus they got killed quite quickly)
- No wealthy PB = no fund in the Guild account, so no M2 or additional M7

If i let the game last a couple more days i know that i'll finally get 3 or 4 wealthy fortresses/strongholds and money will start flowing, and so, the defense grid will start becoming slowly active.

On its side, MBR still (try to) intercept most of my actions. But like PG its ressources are apparently stressed to the max, and dispatched wings are most of the time too small.

So basically with these settings and a fresh reset of PG you should get a more or less even match in the long run. But whatever you do, the Guild will be bashed during the first 24h (initial position of the PB in the vanilla game ain't good at all).

One weird thing. Usually boron military are crap against PG, both in vanilla and with RRF. But here it has been the worst enemy of the guild during nearly the whole test. They did more damages to the guild that all the other races added one to another.

It also gave me a few ideas for the 1.6x serie.

+ PB that will morph into Mobile PB (TL ship with basically the same appearance) to relocate elsewhere.
+ Decoy attacks before major operations (invasions, HQ invasions)
+ Add the Mob Boss' emergency jump AI to most ships
+ Disabling bounty hunters when MBR is enabled would also help a lot.

I could also put back the X3R cover system, but it was causing too much issues, and it was a pain to implement, so it probably won't make it.

One funny screenshot :
[ external image ]

----

Minor PG bug spotted :

Destroyed Guild HQ reported twice in the guild news.
And you probably get the reward twice too if you're the killer.
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Post by paulwheeler »

Is it a definate no for PG station attacks with MBR? Does this lessen the raids on pirate bases by the MBR?

There's little PG activity in my game at the moment, although I've only just pushed the PG up to hard. I've got station attacks on at the moment.
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Post by ThisIsHarsh »

Serial Kicked wrote:One funny screenshot :
[ external image ]
LOL. Though, I should make clear that you only get messages for ships that are being sent in, not for ones that are already there. Maybe I should change that.

So in this case there should already be sufficient-ish military to take out the PG ships, but MBR determined a TM would help tip the scales. Probably. Maybe not. Maybe a TM was all that was available. In theory, MBR shouldn't send in ships on blatant suicide missions... in theory.
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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked »

@ThisIsHarsh:

Yes, you're right the sector had other defenders. A Boron M2 and a M6 or two if i recall correctly. They even managed to kill my M1. So no suicide mission here, nor in any other situation i was able to monitor in real time. It's working good. But the message by itself was funny :)

@paulwheeler:

Well yeah station attacks is one of the weakness of the PG AI here, it uses a bunch of ships, take time, and they are 'too busy' (read /me too lazy) attacking the station to flee when the endangered station calls MBR for help. So a bunch of the ship sent to attack a station won't come back.

If you switch to V.Hard. Reset PG instead of just changing the difficulty setting. It will be more effective as all stations will be refilled with a bunch of ships and money, allowing PG to reach its potential more quickly than with using a bunch of battered and ruined outposts.
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Requiemfang
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Post by Requiemfang »

hmmm... sheesh... lol well seems RRF has killed my game... again... I don't have either MBR or RRF on my game anymore. MBR was the first to be removed and after a while of playing with just RRF I finally got a continual hang at the same exact point. So that means there is something broke in RRF... shame though I had gotten pretty far 18 hours worth of playing into that game and I had started to build a small fleet. So once removed the game run's smooth again, cept for about 5 second freezes when ships jump into the system... but that's nothing so long as the game doesn't hang. I'll wait around for what you're working on now with the MBR. I could also be an issue with the Sector & Background Mod V2.5
&
CMOD3-SSBM-BETA1

but I don't know, the increased sector sizes make things less clustered and more spread out which means less clumped together battles which could possible cause game lag due to SO much going on all at once if your in the sector that your game freezes anyways. I doubt it's the issue though seeing how the hang and freezes stopped as soon as I uninstalled RRF
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Post by Vayde »

Added this to my game with the new DDTC mod and they sync well together.
Still life in the old dog yet...
Requiemfang
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Post by Requiemfang »

Well... :lol: I wouldn't want to be the fleet to attack this pirate base
:D

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3547 ... n00012.png
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Jakeybum
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Post by Jakeybum »

HELP ME!!!
I've got a big problem new version with. My HQ battery is jumping between -хххххх and +хххххх, but usually it is equal 0. I cannot produce any ships in my HQ now. And additionally I've already erased old Pirate Guild version. What should I do?

F*ck!
Pirate Guild has been deactivated and deleted. But nothing changes. Battery amount is jumping still. :evil:
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

@ Requiemfang - I was getting lots of hangs when using RRF. Since removing RRF and installing MBR I haven't had a single hang. A lot less stutters too.

@Jakeybum - I don't think this script touches the HQ so I very much doubt its this script causing your problems.
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Jakeybum
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Post by Jakeybum »

Is there somebody may help me in my problem? Please! I have already spent 2 month of my life for X3 TC playing.
All works perfectly till I have installed last PG and ADS today.

My scripts and mods:
ADS
Combat Mods and addons without Friendly Pirates.
Commercial Agent
Complex Cleaner
Debriz Utilize Repair
EST
Marauder Shipyard
Marine Repairs
MARS
Pirate Guild
Prospector
RRF
Ring Of Fire
PHQ&HUB-improved (increase HUB space x 10). Now I have 1500000/5000000 in my HQ. That way I cannot uninstall that script and I don't want to do it.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

I'm not sure. I am using the Cmod, my own version of the improved PHQ, Pirate Guild, MARS and ADS, and I was running RRF until recently, with no problems at all.

The Marauder Shipyard causes issues with the pirate guild script, but not what you are describing. It will need disabling for PG to work properly.

Have you recently upgraded to 2.5 and have you checked that all the other scripts are 2.5 compatible? (although the HQ has't changed in 2.5 so I doubt this is the problem)

Have you tried an old save from before you installed the new version of PG. Is the HQ OK in that save?

One way around your problem may be to cheat in a new HQ (using Cycrows cheat script), trasfer all your wares to the new HQ and then destroy the old one. This may reset things.
Varsde
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Post by Varsde »

Hi, erm ... I have a silly question. I just got back to this game from a long break, I saw this mod and decided to install it and give it a shot.

Now to my question: Is it totally random when/where you get into contact with the pirates ? I set them to friendly towards me. I havn't played long yet, 2 hours at most.

I haven't gotten any message about where a pirate base might be either. So I was wondering which is the mos expediant way in making contact ?

Cheers for a great mod.
Requiemfang
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Post by Requiemfang »

Set the ECS to a hot key and when you get in range of a pirate vessel you can com them to find out where the closest pirate base is, same with a pirate guild ship
Varsde
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Post by Varsde »

Ok, thank you :)

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