RPS article

[ravage_za]

The problem is that the Devils Advocates cannot be arsed to do so. Dont get me wrong, lots "broken core dynamics" here and "plenty of design flaws" there, and "should be scrapped and made anew" everyday. But no action taken, no threads, no feedback with the specific problems. How many threads asking for a CAG system? None and so on with all de "design flaws"

I can't suggest fixes for features, when the basis of the game seems so broken to me on a fundamental level. Fix AI, fix UI, fix trading, fix station management, fix collisions, fix the complete lack of impact the player has, etc etc are all that come to mind. Thinking about how to fix trade, for example, just makes me think of how many other things need to be fixed before trade can even be addressed. It's overwhelming how much is actually wrong when you get down to it. So much so that I honestly don't even know where to start.

When you get right down to it, fixing the cosmetics will never really save this game, which is why so many advocate(ed) a complete rework.

So, first thing on my list would probably be fix the AI. Or make an AI. A lot of stuff relies on it and is broken as a result. Oh, but the scripting is problematic, so should probably fix that first, but some of the features don't exist, so should really be implemented.... It's a round-robin of issues, where can you truly start?

If I think about things that made X3 so engaging, then the things that marred that experience, I'd have a pretty short list. I know I'm going to get jumped on because, "X:Rebirth isn't X4, hater!!!!", but it was a game that worked. Rebirth just doesn't, and needs to heavily invest in lessons learned for over a decade before it'll be anything but a sore point.

Probably more pertinent, is that Egosoft isn't listening. What they've implemented so far is not even vaguely what people actually want, except for a few. I'm pretty sure the few who love the game and changes would have loved them regardless of what they were though. Overwhelmingly, people are not impressed. It seems to me they addressed what was easy instead of what was necessary.

[ragamer]

This thread is a clear example of why people who do not like the game feel like noone is listening to them. Over twelve pages of discussion, keeping the thread up there, all of you participating. From 0 to 10, how usefull is this thread to Egosoft big fat 0. How many viable suggestions put forward, big fat 0. Then when threads like Radar/renaming ships etc turns up, 2 people that care participate, 3 make snarky comments, and the big majority do not turn up and say something, because they are too busy posting in the "shall metacritic reviews be changed" thread.

That's how a forum should be read... And why the RPS article, in general, was a kick to the wasps' nest...

...And why ES should plan ahead about the reception of further tittles. There are just a bunch of "usual suspects" posting around feedback, even fewer unconditionally praising ES and then... Each time some1 from ES hints anything about launch... You get all kinds of low activity players jumping in to express what they hate/dislike about XR (Meaning that, somehow, there is still a sizable portion of disgrunted custommers still paying attention to ES)...

...Check the numbers, which contrary to some ppl claims, is what matters and you may see why listening to "feedback" coming from a few "VIPs" (or ones that seems to act as if their voice holds the "ultimate truth" about what XR and further tittles should be... Ignoring they are just another sold copy, as most ppl in this forums) will be the recipe for disaster.

According to ES, they sold much more copies with an hyped half-finished product than with any previous X tittle...

...I don't know if they are planning to repeat it again but, if they at least check what happens with Companies that perform this stunt once, when they try to release further projects I wonder which feedback should have higher priority...

...The few ones still playing or the cloud of angry users that react like we see on threads like this each time XR launch is mentioned by any official source.

Put in simpler terms... XR2 will be to XR as FE/LH was to Elemental? Or are we in a SWOTS2 scenario?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@sparky: My personal experience is mostly in-line with Jerrol3d's, I do not recall the first version number I have played but I can say that I started playing with-in the first week after release.

The biggest issues for me have been plot and economy bugs. Stability has not been brilliant but it has been better for me than some others - When I have had issues, it has normally been down to resource management in a post-plot game. There may have been other crash incidents but I do not believe they are as predictable and frequent for everyone as they appear to have been for some.

Been occupied a lot with other stuff recently so have not had as much X-R time as I would have liked since v2.0 has been released but from what I have played the 64-bit exe does seem to have helped matters.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Roger, my reply was a light-hearted reminder that in order to fully appreciate his post, we needed a bit more context.If you could add the version number that he first played and mention whether he completed the plot in a vanilla game, great. In any case, im not sure thst hearing about your experience of Rebirth again (feels like several times a week) helps

[pref]

...
I would recommend that although it sounds exciting and positive we should be patient and await the formal announcements before investing any emotion or enthusiasm in it ourselves.

I think ES already blew much of the enthusiasm. It will take a year or two anyway before they can release anything new, so its not like we could hold our breath..

And if they start that without a roadmap and discussion with fans, i think we can safely say it will be trash.
Think the CEO still awaits, maybe XR player numbers raise somehow and then they can forget stupid-boring X3 that they hate so much already...

[khartsh]

The problem is that the Devils Advocates cannot be arsed to do so. Dont get me wrong, lots "broken core dynamics" here and "plenty of design flaws" there, and "should be scrapped and made anew" everyday. But no action taken, no threads, no feedback with the specific problems. How many threads asking for a CAG system? None and so on with all de "design flaws"

I can't suggest fixes for features, when the basis of the game seems so broken to me on a fundamental level. Fix AI, fix UI, fix trading, fix station management, fix collisions, fix the complete lack of impact the player has, etc etc are all that come to mind. Thinking about how to fix trade, for example, just makes me think of how many other things need to be fixed before trade can even be addressed. It's overwhelming how much is actually wrong when you get down to it. So much so that I honestly don't even know where to start.

When you get right down to it, fixing the cosmetics will never really save this game, which is why so many advocate(ed) a complete rework.

This is essentially the problem. Those requesting that we come up with Criticism that will better be received by Egosoft are asking customers to do something nearly impossible.

It would be akin to putting a Harley Davidson in front of someone and say, ok It is a car, well it isn't but do you have any better suggestions to be a car? The differences between a Motorcycle and a car are extreme, but they both serve the same purpose.

This is the problem with asking mere mortal customers to create fixes for essentially a Motorcycle that should have been a Car.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@Sparky: It did not need more context, it was perfectly clear to me...

As for what I said, it only re-enforces the point that keeps being made by several people on these forums... the more extreme problems are not universally applicable (assuming they are not exaggerations of the actual problems being encountered that is).

I will refrain from responding with a similar personal remark wrt my thoughts about your posts.

[BigBANGtheory]

I believe there is a universal gameplay issue for fleet management, but if you want me to sign an NDA and participate in an experiment I'll do my part.

[yoyolll]

I find it hilarious that people still insist there was never any problems with the game, and those of us who had an unplayable game due to FPS issues or crashing are just exaggerating or special cases.

There is no convincing you guys, all I can say is ES got what was coming with these reviews.

[Graaf]

The problem is that the Devils Advocates cannot be arsed to do so. Dont get me wrong, lots "broken core dynamics" here and "plenty of design flaws" there, and "should be scrapped and made anew" everyday. But no action taken, no threads, no feedback with the specific problems. How many threads asking for a CAG system? None and so on with all de "design flaws"

Since "broken core mechanics" was covered before I'll go with "design flaw" now:

And it all comes down to the 1 ship limitation.
Rebirth is designed around the Skunk, and I don't see a way to implement multiple pilotable ships due to this.
Single seat fighters? Then were does Yisha go?
Transport ships? While you can put Yisha into a transport (I hope not), it does require a complete makeover on the trade works (or as I see it, finally implement it)

So yes, in order to make everyone happy they probably need to "scrap and made anew" Rebirth.

[ravage_za]

Well, I do not like the single ship limitation. Flying multiple ships is a big part of how I play the game. I honestly never sit in one ship for very long.

That said, a single ship solution done (very, very) well, would have been ok, and I could have lived with it, maybe even enjoyed it. It was not done well. At all. It makes you realise all the more what you're missing.

The X series has always been about playing the game your own way, now we're kinda stuck playing it one way. When all is said and done, it is still a pointless exercise in frustration.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@yoyoll: There is a marked difference between saying that the game has no issues at all and that it is not as universally and unequivocally bad as some seem to make out.

No-one is saying the software is perfect (at least based on the posts I have seen).

[khartsh]

@yoyoll: There is a marked difference between saying that the game has no issues at all and that it is not as universally and unequivocally bad as some seem to make out.

No-one is saying the software is perfect (at least based on the posts I have seen).

And to be equally fair no one of note is saying the software is good either.

The game is universally bad as a whole, there are parts of the software that shine and I hope they use in the future, but most of it has the feel of unfinished piecemeal.

[pjknibbs]

I think this thread is done now--you've been warned twice not to make it personal, I think a third warning will fall on deaf ears as the first two apparently did.

I'll just reiterate one thing: implying that the opinions of people who disagree with you are somehow worthless is *not acceptable* on these forums. Stop doing it.