Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

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Nerwesta
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by Nerwesta »

Yep, it looks awesome.
When doing the Timelines DLC and stralling around the station it struck me : " wait a minute, how awesome those interiors could fit on a ship " :gruebel:
This is why I always have " More Rooms " mod installed, just for that little tiny immersion while flying, and feeling the size of ships, not just standing on the bridge to see what's going on outside.
The mod itself can't do miracles sadly.
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thegreybetween
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by thegreybetween »

Yes! This is going to be awesome. Many thanks!

Also, cheers for continuing to add to the soundtrack with each of these releases. That's pretty much enough to get my money by itself.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by Raptor34 »

adeine wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 21:15 The ships look nice, and more soundtrack is always good, but...
Gregory wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 16:13 [*]The most prestigious ship for Diplomacy in X4: Foundations, significantly reducing agent operation durations (as introduced in the 2025 X4 Diplomacy Update)
This is uncomfortably teetering on the brink of pay-to-skip.
Gregory wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 16:13 Activate faction camouflage protocols to display the identity of another faction, misleading observers and delaying identification. Whether you're slipping past enemy blockades or staging an ambush under false colours, the Envoy offers unmatched versatility for commanders who favour stealth operations over brute force.
This should really be in the base game. People have been asking for proper faction cover forever, and to see it gated behind a paid pack here is disappointing. Especially since regular ships can do it if they're pirates.
Honestly I'll rather they remove the current magical faction disguise from pirates and give them like Q ship variations of L transports for the big ships and something similar for smaller ships. It's extremely dumb that we have Terran Phoenixes flying around and apparently everyone just accepts that. So much for Terran paranoia and technological superiority. My proposal would be that pirates would only be able to faction disguise as what they obviously are. So say a Q-ship variant Sonra vanguard can only disguise as Argon for instance. And of course no more just searching for "plunderer" in the search bar and all pirates are shown.
Then this ship pack's faction disguise would be different because it uses actual good tech to pretend to be someone else instead of what's essentially "trust me bro".
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by surferx »

Added to wish list. Thanks for continuing to upgrade this great game. This seems like a ship you will want to spend a lot of time in. I can't wait!
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by taztaz502 »

We ever going to get another expansion? (not like timelines).

Or is ego going to just milk its fanbase with these scam packs? Took a leaf right out of EA’s book.

Don’t mind the addition of ships but now locking content behind a paywall is nuts.

Please just give us another expansion I honestly can’t bring myself to buy these packs, I would rather buy 4 beers from the shop than support these decisions.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by Nerwesta »

taztaz502 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 04:50 We ever going to get another expansion? (not like timelines).

Or is ego going to just milk its fanbase with these scam packs? Took a leaf right out of EA’s book.

Don’t mind the addition of ships but now locking content behind a paywall is nuts.

Please just give us another expansion I honestly can’t bring myself to buy these packs, I would rather buy 4 beers from the shop than support these decisions.


They layed out their ambitions for 2025 and possibly beyond just here :

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 8304123198

I too would love something akin to Kingdom's End, but it's not like it was a surprise of what 2025 was planned. See it as a way to support the studio's hard work, especially on delivering fully free major overhaul on the game ( I've yet to test the Diplomacy part though )
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by vvvvvvvv »

Nerwesta wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 22:27 " wait a minute, how awesome those interiors could fit on a ship "
Timelines does this already. Lockers used on Cutlass (I think) are the same ones you can see inside timelines station.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

MegaJohnny wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 21:23
alt3rn1ty wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 18:29 We can build multiples of this for our Diplomatic Agents right?
Thomas2052 wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 21:22 I assume - based on it being high prestige for agents - but these can be blueprinted and mass produced?
I can see other Envoys in the background in this pic: link

So, here's hoping you can!
Good spot :), fingers crossed then.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Wed, 13. Aug 25, 22:16 One thing that immediatley screams "sold" to me is this:

Image

This is definitely either a crew room or captain's cabin, and it has a chair you can sit at. One of the badly wanted features.
Same, I paused the video at that point and studied it for a while. Really curious about the console display, I doubt if its a real time monitor of anything, but I think its the first time we have seen this type of screen.
Image
.. Whatever it is, its a nice immersion detail when you want to chill in the office while your pilot takes you somewhere.

I'm also curious if we will see any warning lights or hear sounds if we are sat here, when the ship comes under attack, time to leg it to the cockpit :D
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by S!rAssassin »

Raptor34 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 02:30 Honestly...
Agreed, it's totally stupid. In direct visual range, camouflage should be broken. But, if you have buy Argon ship, fake Argon transponder should work!
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by taztaz502 »

Nerwesta wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 05:40
taztaz502 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 04:50 We ever going to get another expansion? (not like timelines).

Or is ego going to just milk its fanbase with these scam packs? Took a leaf right out of EA’s book.

Don’t mind the addition of ships but now locking content behind a paywall is nuts.

Please just give us another expansion I honestly can’t bring myself to buy these packs, I would rather buy 4 beers from the shop than support these decisions.


They layed out their ambitions for 2025 and possibly beyond just here :

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 8304123198

I too would love something akin to Kingdom End, but it's not like it was a surprise of what 2025 was planned. See it as a way to support the studio's hard work, especially on delivering fully free major overhaul on the game ( I've yet to test the Diplomacy part though )
"Mini DLCs"

Doesn't say anything about features being locked behind a paywall.

As for supporting the developers i own every X game, DLC and expansion, minus hyperion pack and this whenever it's released.

I've supported the dev's enough over the years. I would rather give them money for nothing than pay to support this direction.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by LameFox »

Kinda conflicted on this. The ship itself looks interesting and potentially opens up some new ways to play, but it feels wasteful to see that tied to a specific ship. Stealth in X4 is an ancient, limited mechanic that mostly seems to exist to the player's annoyance. So someone went to the trouble of improving it, but it gets a super limited rollout?

Also, not really a big fan of the unique loadout thing in general. Choosing the ship you want for a player ship and customising it is part of the appeal. It feels like Egosoft forget this when they set out to design ships clearly intended for the player to use above others. The special ones devalue the other ships as something for the player to personally fly, and at the same time if you do choose one, it often can't customise or (as with Erlking) its balance is such that when you do put other weapons on it, they're so much worse you defeat the purpose.

Somehow, you add more to the game but end up making the options feel more limited, because when I want to do a thing there's one clear answer what ship I ought to be using.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

taztaz502 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 12:31
Nerwesta wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 05:40
taztaz502 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 04:50 We ever going to get another expansion? (not like timelines).

Or is ego going to just milk its fanbase with these scam packs? Took a leaf right out of EA’s book.

Don’t mind the addition of ships but now locking content behind a paywall is nuts.

Please just give us another expansion I honestly can’t bring myself to buy these packs, I would rather buy 4 beers from the shop than support these decisions.


They layed out their ambitions for 2025 and possibly beyond just here :

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 8304123198

I too would love something akin to Kingdom End, but it's not like it was a surprise of what 2025 was planned. See it as a way to support the studio's hard work, especially on delivering fully free major overhaul on the game ( I've yet to test the Diplomacy part though )
"Mini DLCs"

Doesn't say anything about features being locked behind a paywall.

As for supporting the developers i own every X game, DLC and expansion, minus hyperion pack and this whenever it's released.

I've supported the dev's enough over the years. I would rather give them money for nothing than pay to support this direction.
You can still use ships like the Yasur or Xperimental Shuttle to reduce Agents time on mission (in the case of Yasur, once one is being used by an Agent, you can download another in the Ventures inventory .. although weirdly I have had a couple of Agents would not accept the Yasur as a ship, the other 6 did accept it). If you never played Ventures, or dont have Timelines, other ships like the Boron Irukandji, or Paranid Pegasus Vanguard, or the Yaki Moreya are good. I guess there are more I haven't tried on Agents.

And the cloaking ability we already have if you are flying the Litigious Rodent ..
https://i.imgur.com/Dps1tCm.png
.. On that ship you dont need to deactivate weapons to go into its cloaked mode, its probably not as sturdy as these new ships are going to be though.

.. So I don't see what is being "locked" behind a paywall?

Your choice of course, but I am pretty sure Egosoft never want to fall foul of other games companies mistakes. And this approach does give them even more time in development to polish the game. Much longer than we have ever seen them put into any of the X series of games. Without it we may never have seen Frame Generation in the 8.0 betas, which is a game changer especially for those of us on laptops.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by vvvvvvvv »

alt3rn1ty wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 11:55
Same, I paused the video at that point and studied it for a while. Really curious about the console display, I doubt if its a real time monitor of anything, but I think its the first time we have seen this type of screen.
I think this particular display texture is used in "war rooms" when you sign up for war guild missions. Not sure if it shows up elsewhere, or if war rooms are used for any other purpose. Personal Office might have something similar on a wall, I t hink.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 13:37
alt3rn1ty wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 11:55
Same, I paused the video at that point and studied it for a while. Really curious about the console display, I doubt if its a real time monitor of anything, but I think its the first time we have seen this type of screen.
I think this particular display texture is used in "war rooms" when you sign up for war guild missions. Not sure if it shows up elsewhere, or if war rooms are used for any other purpose. Personal Office might have something similar on a wall, I t hink.
Could be in War rooms, I can't remember being in one.
Definitely not in the Personal Office. Thats a different display.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by Caedes91 »

Great, another single ship DLC. As if this game needed another one-off "player ship" to stash away somewhere safe.
How about releasing actual ship packs and not Star Citizen microtransactions.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

Caedes91 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 17:00 How about releasing actual ship packs and not Star Citizen microtransactions.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 8304123198
First quarter 2025 – “Mini DLC 1” (working title)
Alongside the free updates to the base game, we’re planning a smaller-than-usual DLC release early next year. While content specifics are still in the works, this “Mini DLC” will be more compact than previous X4 expansions. A confirmed feature is the re-imagining of a fan-favourite ship from earlier X series games; one which has been eagerly requested by members of the community. The DLC will also feature some activities surrounding the acquisition of this ship, and maybe even its blueprints. Stay tuned, as we may reveal the ship as a Christmas surprise this year!

Third quarter 2025 – Diplomacy Update
Later in 2025, we are planning a free base game update that will focus on Diplomacy gameplay in X4: Foundations. This update will introduce a new room in the player’s headquarters, where faction representatives can gather and offer you strategic options. In addition to this room, players will have access to agents (NPCs) who can be dispatched on independent missions to achieve diplomatic goals in the X universe. The highlight of this update will be Diplomatic Events, giving players the opportunity to manipulate their own relations with other factions, and even in some cases between specific NPC factions. We’ll have more to share regarding further features of the Diplomacy Update as we get closer to its release.

Third quarter 2025 – Additional Mini DLC
Depending on the success of the first Mini DLC, we may follow up with similarly sized DLCs to accompany other free base game updates. As you can see, our focus in 2025 is on consistent, impactful improvements to the base game and, as in the past, those base game updates will be free to existing X4 players, with Mini DLC purchases supporting ongoing development.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by adeine »

alt3rn1ty wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 12:55
You can still use ships like the Yasur or Xperimental Shuttle to reduce Agents time on mission (in the case of Yasur, once one is being used by an Agent, you can download another in the Ventures inventory .. although weirdly I have had a couple of Agents would not accept the Yasur as a ship, the other 6 did accept it). If you never played Ventures, or dont have Timelines, other ships like the Boron Irukandji, or Paranid Pegasus Vanguard, or the Yaki Moreya are good. I guess there are more I haven't tried on Agents.

And the cloaking ability we already have if you are flying the Litigious Rodent ..
https://i.imgur.com/Dps1tCm.png
.. On that ship you dont need to deactivate weapons to go into its cloaked mode, its probably not as sturdy as these new ships are going to be though.

.. So I don't see what is being "locked" behind a paywall?

Your choice of course, but I am pretty sure Egosoft never want to fall foul of other games companies mistakes. And this approach does give them even more time in development to polish the game. Much longer than we have ever seen them put into any of the X series of games. Without it we may never have seen Frame Generation in the 8.0 betas, which is a game changer especially for those of us on laptops.
Yasur is locked behind either community of planets bonus (not available to players who bought the game before then) or those who got to play in the ventures beta. Xperimental Shuttle is bundled with Timelines, so again locked behind a paywall for those who bought the game before it became standard. And by the sounds of it, either of those ships is worse than what is being advertised for the Envoy here.

I'd rather the Envoy was more in line with existing ships when it comes to agent missions - you don't want the game balanced such that there is an incentive to make things more annoying for people who didn't buy a DLC addon, essentially paying to skip the (artificial) wait. A worse version of this would be something like introducing a pack with better build ships that allow you to construct station modules in parallel (oft-requested, and would be an indispensable addition for building large complexes).

Nothing wrong with DLC packs being unique and fun, even powerful, but they should not be a shortcut or straight upgrade to what is in the base game.

The same is true for the cloak feature - I would not count the Litigious Rodent, disguising as YAK is not that useful since pretty much every faction hates them, and the ship itself is a small little fighter. Now I could be wrong about this, but from the OP it certainly sounds like the Envoy gives you access to an actual piracy cover mechanic, something that has been missing from the game since inception with NPCs being able to do it, and something people have been asking for for the same amount of time. If you're already implementing this feature for the Envoy there is no reason, other than trying to sell this DLC pack, not to extend this to pirate ships in the base game, since they are clearly also supposed to be capable of it.

It is not a great direction to take, and as has been pointed out, limiting these things to specific ships that are gated behind DLC packs actively makes the game worse by eliminating choice.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by vvvvvvvv »

Caedes91 wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 17:00 Great, another single ship DLC.
There's more than one ship, sector, (likely short) storyline and music.

So it is not star citizen.
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Re: Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

Post by alt3rn1ty »

adeine wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 17:20
alt3rn1ty wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 12:55 You can still use ships like the Yasur or Xperimental Shuttle to reduce Agents time on mission (in the case of Yasur, once one is being used by an Agent, you can download another in the Ventures inventory .. although weirdly I have had a couple of Agents would not accept the Yasur as a ship, the other 6 did accept it). If you never played Ventures, or dont have Timelines, other ships like the Boron Irukandji, or Paranid Pegasus Vanguard, or the Yaki Moreya are good. I guess there are more I haven't tried on Agents.
Yasur is locked behind either community of planets bonus (not available to players who bought the game before then) or those who got to play in the ventures beta. Xperimental Shuttle is bundled with Timelines, so again locked behind a paywall for those who bought the game before it became standard. And by the sounds of it, either of those ships is worse than what is being advertised for the Envoy here.

I'd rather the Envoy was more in line with existing ships when it comes to agent missions - you don't want the game balanced such that there is an incentive to make things more annoying for people who didn't buy a DLC addon, essentially paying to skip the (artificial) wait. A worse version of this would be something like introducing a pack with better build ships that allow you to construct station modules in parallel (oft-requested, and would be an indispensable addition for building large complexes).

Nothing wrong with DLC packs being unique and fun, even powerful, but they should not be a shortcut or straight upgrade to what is in the base game.
Yes which is why I mentioned the other ships which can be used in the same roll.
Agree though that they may not be as good as the Envoy ships, it cant be too much difference though otherwise they would be OP. We shall have to wait and see.
adeine wrote: Thu, 14. Aug 25, 17:20 The same is true for the cloak feature - I would not count the Litigious Rodent, disguising as YAK is not that useful since pretty much every faction hates them, and the ship itself is a small little fighter. Now I could be wrong about this, but from the OP it certainly sounds like the Envoy gives you access to an actual piracy cover mechanic, something that has been missing from the game since inception with NPCs being able to do it, and something people have been asking for for the same amount of time. If you're already implementing this feature for the Envoy there is no reason, other than trying to sell this DLC pack, not to extend this to pirate ships in the base game, since they are clearly also supposed to be capable of it.

It is not a great direction to take, and as has been pointed out, limiting these things to specific ships that are gated behind DLC packs actively makes the game worse by eliminating choice.
I didn't realise the Litigious Rodent only camouflaged as Yaki, and did not use the Pirate camouflage mechanism.

Oh well you pays your money you takes your choice, and for the support of the extended development and free updates to the base game .. I for one wont be shy of spending the price of a pint. Egosoft haven't turned evil all of a sudden, the plans in the road map have been public since November last year.
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