Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

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LameFox
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by LameFox »

flywlyx wrote: Sun, 23. Feb 25, 20:14
LameFox wrote: Sun, 23. Feb 25, 05:40 Odachi looks like someone actually lives in it/uses it. If you're looking for functional things to do then of course it's as empty as any ship (though I think you can open a compartment on the wall) but that's just because all of the interiors in this whole game are meaningless decoration. Xenon are also good but I don't think I'd want non-Xenon to look as chaotic and alien as they do.

Paranid ships are kind of weird though, their whole aesthetic seems to be that of an empty container with almost nothing that even looks interactive. Same with present-day Terran. I think Egosoft assumes that high-tech means you design stuff to completely obscure its function and just leave it blank and smooth, but to me that looks very sterile and boring.
You must be confusing the Odachi with another ship. Its cockpit is literally just an empty room, like an exhibit space in a museum.
Image

The chaotic, alien style is more suited for PE and SE, with the wires and tubes effectively shaping the environment. F and B, on the other hand, align more with the ATF style—cold, war-machine aesthetics. It’s a shame there aren’t more ATF ships.

I completely agree—while the current TER and old USC styles work fine for civilian ships, they don’t suit warships.
I mean the ship interior as a whole, not that it looks like someone lives directly in the cockpit. X4 cockpits all seem pretty bare tbh, you have a seat, a very flat and unconvincing set of controls, if you're lucky some also unconvincing computer screens. Usually the only thing with a believable level of detail seems to be the seat itself, maybe because it's actually counted on to animate.
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LameFox
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by LameFox »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Sun, 23. Feb 25, 22:23
LameFox wrote: Sun, 23. Feb 25, 14:17 but also that's effort that is going to something with no function besides decoration
The function is to make player happy. To make the ship a place the player want to (re)visit.

If graphics didn't matter people would've been still playing wireframe elite from 1980s, and never needed anything more. Visuals and decorations matter, and right now visuals are part of X4 appeal.

Also, consider this. No Man's Sky and Elite Dangerous both feature cockpit customization items. Bobbleheads and placeables. People are willing to go through challenges (NMS) or pay real money to get them. Because one of t he things people typically want is to express themselves in the world. That's why X4 has logos, paintjobs, lets you select player name and your ship. That is also why base builders are popular. And that's why people didn't like being locked into Albion Skunk.
I'd be happier with more ships of a tolerable level of detail than a few really intricate ones whose insides I mostly have no reason to see, as nothing actually happens in them. Also, ED is a weird example: you can't even see most ship interiors (I think you can walk in a carrier?). Putting a modular bit of decoration in front of you is not very similar to how it is done here.
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vvvvvvvv
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by vvvvvvvv »

LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 03:03 I mean the ship interior as a whole, not that it looks like someone lives directly in the cockpit.
Check out teladi ships (Osprey, Manorina) and Avarice ships. Avarice ones look like someone could live here.
LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 03:15 I'd be happier with more ships of a tolerable level of detail than a few really intricate ones whose insides I mostly have no reason to see
In my opinion the current ships are at that tolerable level. Dialing details lower would require switch to retro graphics or minecraft visuals. Hyperion is at higher level of tolerable, but still roughly the same as everything else.
LameFox
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by LameFox »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:03
LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 03:03 I mean the ship interior as a whole, not that it looks like someone lives directly in the cockpit.
Check out teladi ships (Osprey, Manorina) and Avarice ships. Avarice ones look like someone could live here.
Some—but you also get things like Peregrine which have a walk-in closet level of bridge. Larger Teladi ships also do that thing where you have a lot of space that isn't decorated much, though not to the same extent as Terran/Paranid.
vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:03 In my opinion the current ships are at that tolerable level. Dialing details lower would require switch to retro graphics or minecraft visuals. Hyperion is at higher level of tolerable, but still roughly the same as everything else.
This is essentially what I was saying, yes. For me the Hyperion/Xenon/Timelines level of detail is preferable for most ships as opposed to people wanting a DLC ship to be more like an Astrid.
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flywlyx
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by flywlyx »

LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 03:03 I mean the ship interior as a whole, not that it looks like someone lives directly in the cockpit. X4 cockpits all seem pretty bare tbh, you have a seat, a very flat and unconvincing set of controls, if you're lucky some also unconvincing computer screens. Usually the only thing with a believable level of detail seems to be the seat itself, maybe because it's actually counted on to animate.
This is why F and B truly feel like war machines—they don’t have tons of empty rooms like most ships. SPL ships also share this same design philosophy.
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by vvvvvvvv »

LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:22 This is essentially what I was saying, yes. For me the Hyperion/Xenon/Timelines level of detail is preferable for most ships as opposed to people wanting a DLC ship to be more like an Astrid.
Astrid has same or even lower level of detail than Hyperion. When I speak of "level of detail" here I'm talking about texture resolution, graphical fidelity, geometry. Roughly same amount of polys/texels per square meter.

Astrid, however, is more interactive and resembles an actual living place, while Hyperion is all looks. That's the point people are making. Low interactivity, underutilized assets, pure visual. When people in a game see a door, they try to open it, and when they realize the door is painted on the wall, thats less fun then finding there's something beyond it. On the previous page I outlined what could've been done instead. More interactive elements, maybe a small puzzle. Stuff like that. Visuals are nice, and they matter, because otherwise people would've been playing wireframe elite. However, games are interactive medium, so it is better to make interior interactive.
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by LameFox »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:53
LameFox wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:22 This is essentially what I was saying, yes. For me the Hyperion/Xenon/Timelines level of detail is preferable for most ships as opposed to people wanting a DLC ship to be more like an Astrid.
Astrid has same or even lower level of detail than Hyperion. When I speak of "level of detail" here I'm talking about texture resolution, graphical fidelity, geometry. Roughly same amount of polys/texels per square meter.

Astrid, however, is more interactive and resembles an actual living place, while Hyperion is all looks. That's the point people are making. Low interactivity, underutilized assets, pure visual. When people in a game see a door, they try to open it, and when they realize the door is painted on the wall, thats less fun then finding there's something beyond it. On the previous page I outlined what could've been done instead. More interactive elements, maybe a small puzzle. Stuff like that. Visuals are nice, and they matter, because otherwise people would've been playing wireframe elite. However, games are interactive medium, so it is better to make interior interactive.
This is not what I was referring to anyway then, I don't think the texture resolution for instance is likely to have been the source of the time spent on a ship like Astrid. Small details can be a lot of work but even then, I think after you've created the 3D assets and can reuse a lot of them, it's probably less an issue to have a mid sized bridge with a high detail level than a big room with a lot of external visibility and the ship essentially designed around it.
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adeine
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by adeine »

More interactivity for the spacelegs portion of the game would always be nice (imagine being able to get 'secret' missions off NPCs instead of/in addition to tedious station scanning), but it's probably not a popular priority.

It's incredibly small, but I like that it's internally connected. It just makes me wish that we could get rid of the generic turbolifts and XS docking port and have a way to actually get off an L ship without one (like getting on a little drone/shuttle to physically enter the L docking pier). Feels like such a waste to have a connected interior that doesn't... connect to anything.
Ergoswot
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by Ergoswot »

StoneLegionYT wrote: Sat, 22. Feb 25, 20:08 I guess I have to start focusing more on egging game developers and less on what really matters in life.
Wow, gaslight 101... but good to know that you are a guy able to tell us what REALLY matters in life (as he responds to people on a PC game forum)! :lol:
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MakerLinux
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by MakerLinux »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:53Astrid, however, is more interactive and resembles an actual living place
I can't tell you how much I'd like my character to swim in that pool. Yes, it would be absolutely overkill for a space game, and that's why it would be fun.

In any fashion, even discounting the pool, I don't find the Astrid very interactive. And I find the Hyperion to be on an equal level to the Astrid.

I am really bothered by the locked red doors on the Hyperion, though. How come you own a ship with two rooms you cannot access? I really, really wish they can be opened in a future patch.
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by vvvvvvvv »

MakerLinux wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 10:13
vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:53Astrid, however, is more interactive and resembles an actual living place
I can't tell you how much I'd like my character to swim in that pool. Yes, it would be absolutely overkill for a space game, and that's why it would be fun.

In any fashion, even discounting the pool, I don't find the Astrid very interactive. And I find the Hyperion to be on an equal level to the Astrid.

I am really bothered by the locked red doors on the Hyperion, though. How come you own a ship with two rooms you cannot access? I really, really wish they can be opened in a future patch.
Astrid has button on the table which closes and opens shutters on the back window. And another one in the bedroom which toggles lights. Hyperion does not have a similar interactive decorative element, as far as I can tell.
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by MakerLinux »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 11:00
MakerLinux wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 10:13
vvvvvvvv wrote: Mon, 24. Feb 25, 05:53Astrid, however, is more interactive and resembles an actual living place
I can't tell you how much I'd like my character to swim in that pool. Yes, it would be absolutely overkill for a space game, and that's why it would be fun.

In any fashion, even discounting the pool, I don't find the Astrid very interactive. And I find the Hyperion to be on an equal level to the Astrid.

I am really bothered by the locked red doors on the Hyperion, though. How come you own a ship with two rooms you cannot access? I really, really wish they can be opened in a future patch.
Astrid has button on the table which closes and opens shutters on the back window. And another one in the bedroom which toggles lights. Hyperion does not have a similar interactive decorative element, as far as I can tell.
It has the two elevators. I know, it's pretty barebones, but I find the same with the Astrid with these elements you mentioned.
In any fashion, I understand that the space legs aspect of X4 is mostly a gimmick. I don't think it will get any significant changes on X4, maybe only in the next game if it ever happens.
(but I still dream of a mod that would add full-fledged first of third-person combat on foot on X4, specially on boardings)
Brazilian Linux-only user living in Poland, https://steamcommunity.com/id/patolinux on Steam. PC I use for playing: Ryzen 7 7800X3D with 64 GB 6GHz DDR5 CL30, AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX, ArchLinux on KDE 6 Wayland
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Re: Hyperion interiors are insufficient for a DLC ship

Post by vvvvvvvv »

MakerLinux wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 11:44
vvvvvvvv wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 11:00
MakerLinux wrote: Tue, 25. Feb 25, 10:13

I can't tell you how much I'd like my character to swim in that pool. Yes, it would be absolutely overkill for a space game, and that's why it would be fun.

In any fashion, even discounting the pool, I don't find the Astrid very interactive. And I find the Hyperion to be on an equal level to the Astrid.

I am really bothered by the locked red doors on the Hyperion, though. How come you own a ship with two rooms you cannot access? I really, really wish they can be opened in a future patch.
Astrid has button on the table which closes and opens shutters on the back window. And another one in the bedroom which toggles lights. Hyperion does not have a similar interactive decorative element, as far as I can tell.
It has the two elevators. I know, it's pretty barebones, but I find the same with the Astrid with these elements you mentioned.
In any fashion, I understand that the space legs aspect of X4 is mostly a gimmick. I don't think it will get any significant changes on X4, maybe only in the next game if it ever happens.
(but I still dream of a mod that would add full-fledged first of third-person combat on foot on X4, specially on boardings)
The elevators are functional, shutters/lights are pure, ahem "interactive candy" kind of thing. That makes them fun. At least in my opinion.

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