"Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Surrender is another way to proc bail rolls without hitting the target. The two sources are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you shoot targets, procing normal bail rolls, then you cannot ask the target to surrender due to the not wanting to talk timer preventing you from selecting the option.
Surrender shares the same logic as bail, except if it succeeds then the target will always completely bail rather than only having a chance to with other outcomes being some of the crew bailing. Surrender also does not work on L and XL ships.
Not sure if it has been fixed, but there was a really cheesy strategy in old versions where you camp a battleground and ask all wounded ships to surrender. Asking to surrender does not incur any penalty but it still rolled the proc. The result is you could obtain several free, nearly destroyed, ships just by asking them to surrender and the owning faction did not mind as you committed nothing hostile.
Surrender shares the same logic as bail, except if it succeeds then the target will always completely bail rather than only having a chance to with other outcomes being some of the crew bailing. Surrender also does not work on L and XL ships.
Not sure if it has been fixed, but there was a really cheesy strategy in old versions where you camp a battleground and ask all wounded ships to surrender. Asking to surrender does not incur any penalty but it still rolled the proc. The result is you could obtain several free, nearly destroyed, ships just by asking them to surrender and the owning faction did not mind as you committed nothing hostile.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Observation. Ok, maybe at or near zero. But once the shields increase, I always get the "I don't want to talk to you" or some other snide comment if I'm not the one shooting the ship.
Yes, but I'll bet those were ships damaged by other NPC's, and during a big battle between the NPC's. I can often get bailouts at the beginning of a game, too, in that way. However, whenever I've tried to 'assist' the surrender bailout by firing on the ship myself, that never seems to work. At least, that's how it's worked for me.Really? Last weekend I started a new Game (gamestart from 6.0, not the boron one) and getting bails/surrender where as straightforward as in my 600h-save. I've collected some Bountyhunter-Nems before my first Kill...
And once again, it's highly dependent on the NPC pilot's morale. Chances are those "Bountyhunter-Nems" did not have a very high morale.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Not sure why you think it should be "fixed" since it's not a bug. It's just one of those features that players can use to obtain better ships, if they want to play that way. I've been known to enjoy using it in some of my starts** so I hope it does not get nerfed, like so many other things have.Imperial Good wrote: ↑Wed, 8. Jan 25, 20:36...
Not sure if it has been fixed, but there was a really cheesy strategy in old versions where you camp a battleground and ask all wounded ships to surrender. Asking to surrender does not incur any penalty but it still rolled the proc. The result is you could obtain several free, nearly destroyed, ships just by asking them to surrender and the owning faction did not mind as you committed nothing hostile.

**One of my favorites is to start with just my 'suit and sit by the HOP gate in Second Contact Flashpoint and see if I can get a bailout before my Oxy runs out. Doesn't always work, btw.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
When I say surrender I'm specifically talking about using the dialogue option in the comm system. I can get pilots to bail from ion blaster all day long. What I'm looking for is how to get the dialogue option to work.DanKara wrote: ↑Wed, 8. Jan 25, 19:23Does this come from knowing or reading scripts? Because I think I saw it differently ... but will be on the watch in the future.
Really? Last weekend I started a new Game (gamestart from 6.0, not the boron one) and getting bails/surrender where as straightforward as in my 600h-save. I've collected some Bountyhunter-Nems before my first Kill...
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Sort of poor/nonsense game design as there is no penalty/cost for forcing friendly ships to bail with surrender. Similar to how boarding and killing all the crew on board in the process did (does? not sure if it has changed) not give a faction reputation penalty. Outside of the player time cost, it literally is free ships without much risk.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
So are all the ships floating around free for the claiming (Elite, Drill, Osprey, Ody and others). Is that "poor/nonsense game design", too? As for the ships bailing with no rep loss, that can be the case with every 'shooting bail', too, if you do it in the right places. Also, they aren't really free since they come damaged, often without much of any equipment. It's not like they hand you a nicely equipped and undamaged ship ready to go.Imperial Good wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 05:39...Outside of the player time cost, it literally is free ships without much risk.
And it's not "poor/nonsense game design" just because it's easy. No one is forcing the player to do it, but it does supply an 'easy mode' if the player wishes to use it. It is a sandbox, after all, and those are designed to give players multiple options, from easy to hard.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Damaged is irrelevant when you can repair laser it.Nanook wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 09:31So are all the ships floating around free for the claiming (Elite, Drill, Osprey, Ody and others). Is that "poor/nonsense game design", too? As for the ships bailing with no rep loss, that can be the case with every 'shooting bail', too, if you do it in the right places. Also, they aren't really free since they come damaged, often without much of any equipment. It's not like they hand you a nicely equipped and undamaged ship ready to go.Imperial Good wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 05:39...Outside of the player time cost, it literally is free ships without much risk.
And it's not "poor/nonsense game design" just because it's easy. No one is forcing the player to do it, but it does supply an 'easy mode' if the player wishes to use it. It is a sandbox, after all, and those are designed to give players multiple options, from easy to hard.
Other than that though, I put this as one of those cheese things that you have to choose to use. And frankly not worth the dev time to adjust. It'll likely create new bugs and unintended interactions that would actually impact me regardless of whether I choose to or not anyway.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
As they say, "Time is Money". Except for the light fighters, all the others, including all M-class ships, can take a considerable time to repair. And if you're doing it on the battlefield before sending the ship to be repaired/upgraded, there's a fair chance you and your new ship can die in numerous ways. Besides, hull damage is usually a minor expense compared to replacing all the lost equipment, which you can't do with your vaunted repair laser.

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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
For the record, as of 7.1 onwards, there is a reputation penalty for initiating boarding attempts, but it's conditional on the target faction having at least allied reputation with the faction owning the sector where the boarding occurs, or in the case of neutral or contested sectors, the target being able to successfully deliver a distress beacon to a friendly station.Imperial Good wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 05:39 Similar to how boarding and killing all the crew on board in the process did (does? not sure if it has changed) not give a faction reputation penalty.
Nanook wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 09:31 And it's not "poor/nonsense game design" just because it's easy. No one is forcing the player to do it, but it does supply an 'easy mode' if the player wishes to use it. It is a sandbox, after all, and those are designed to give players multiple options, from easy to hard.
I do agree that this doesn't warrant "fixing" as it's not so egregious or game breaking as other exploits have been. But I do realize that some exploits have been rightfully nerfed in the past, such as the previous ability to repeatedly sell and board the same capital ship with a single captain and zero defending crew members. As much as I'm a proponent of letting players choose how they want to play in their sandbox, I can appreciate the developers' stance when they choose to address "bugs" that can severely imbalance the game.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Indeed. As already said, player's time is probably the most precious resource "in the game".
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Thanks everyone for the tips.
Update: Success.
A Branch 9 I decided to come into True Sight where Antigone and HOP were fighting.
I was in an eclipse, 2 beam emitters, 1 ion blaster, 1 burst ray. I took out the Xenon engines and managed to take out the turrets near the shields. This meant I could use the burst ray to take out the shields and the the beam emitters took down the hull. I felt a great sense of accomplishment defeating this thing. I usually stay away from them but it was headed towards my squatter's station. (I build an admin unit in True Sight in anticipation of HOP being unable to defend it).
After the Xenon capital ship blew up I happened to see a HOP S size fighter with 24% hull and 0% shields. I had honestly decided to give up on this entire surrender business but just to give it one last shot I used the comm to ask the guy to surrender.
"Miserable wretch. Abandoning my vessel." He bailed. he actually bailed. I can't believe it. I've tried this dozens of times before now. But anyway, it looks like the surrender mechanic does work, I just don't know what I'm doing most of the time.
Update: Success.
A Branch 9 I decided to come into True Sight where Antigone and HOP were fighting.
I was in an eclipse, 2 beam emitters, 1 ion blaster, 1 burst ray. I took out the Xenon engines and managed to take out the turrets near the shields. This meant I could use the burst ray to take out the shields and the the beam emitters took down the hull. I felt a great sense of accomplishment defeating this thing. I usually stay away from them but it was headed towards my squatter's station. (I build an admin unit in True Sight in anticipation of HOP being unable to defend it).
After the Xenon capital ship blew up I happened to see a HOP S size fighter with 24% hull and 0% shields. I had honestly decided to give up on this entire surrender business but just to give it one last shot I used the comm to ask the guy to surrender.
"Miserable wretch. Abandoning my vessel." He bailed. he actually bailed. I can't believe it. I've tried this dozens of times before now. But anyway, it looks like the surrender mechanic does work, I just don't know what I'm doing most of the time.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Congratulations. I myself am always thrilled whenever I acquire another "free" ship, whether by bailing, boarding, or discovering abandoned. And now surrendering is another method to add to the toolset. This had never worked for me previously either, but just today I pulled it off on a Hermes.thedavid wrote: ↑Fri, 10. Jan 25, 07:35 (...)
Update: Success.
(...)
"Miserable wretch. Abandoning my vessel." He bailed. he actually bailed. I can't believe it. I've tried this dozens of times before now. But anyway, it looks like the surrender mechanic does work, I just don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

Thumbs up and cheers all around.

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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Is it possible that ships in certain sectors are more prone to surrender than others? Currently, in my game there are a lot of SCA, FAF, Teladi and occasionally Argon ships fighting in Two Grand and Profit Center Alpha and I've had dozens of ships surrender, just in those 2 sectors. However, in Hatikvah's Choice1, there is also almost constant skirmishes with Xenon, yet it seems almost impossible to get a Captain to bail.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Bail chance is related to the pilot skill and especially morale. Some factions like FAF seems to end up with pretty high of both, so are very hard to make bail compared with a generic low skilled pilot.surferx wrote: ↑Sun, 12. Jan 25, 22:53 Is it possible that ships in certain sectors are more prone to surrender than others? Currently, in my game there are a lot of SCA, FAF, Teladi and occasionally Argon ships fighting in Two Grand and Profit Center Alpha and I've had dozens of ships surrender, just in those 2 sectors. However, in Hatikvah's Choice1, there is also almost constant skirmishes with Xenon, yet it seems almost impossible to get a Captain to bail.
Sector does not affect it at all, although story ships might have their bail flag disabled.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Don't start them off... it shocks me how many people in the community abuse fly-by boarding and it's even more odd that Egosoft has no interest in fixing it. We might as well have a dedicated cheat interface when entering "thereshallbewings." Ahhh the good old days!Imperial Good wrote: ↑Thu, 9. Jan 25, 05:39Similar to how boarding and killing all the crew on board in the process did (does? not sure if it has changed) not give a faction reputation penalty. Outside of the player time cost, it literally is free ships without much risk.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
That would be odd if it were true, but there were improvements to boarding pod launch velocity in 7.00 which made fly-by boarding a lot more difficult to pull off.Lord Dakier wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:20 ...people in the community abuse fly-by boarding and it's even more odd that Egosoft has no interest in fixing it.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
The only thing I can think of is that ships don't react to boarding, when they are executing a "critical" action. Their turrets shoot, but the ship doesn't flee, and no distress drone is sent out.CBJ wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:51That would be odd if it were true, but there were improvements to boarding pod launch velocity in 7.00 which made fly-by boarding a lot more difficult to pull off.Lord Dakier wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:20 ...people in the community abuse fly-by boarding and it's even more odd that Egosoft has no interest in fixing it.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
I'll have to take your word for it. I've been a little AWOL since just before 7.0 was released.CBJ wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:51That would be odd if it were true, but there were improvements to boarding pod launch velocity in 7.00 which made fly-by boarding a lot more difficult to pull off.Lord Dakier wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:20 ...people in the community abuse fly-by boarding and it's even more odd that Egosoft has no interest in fixing it.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
Currently on 7.5 beta. I was able to perform fly by boarding 3 times in a row with no issue. Maybe I'm just lucky to start boarding at exact right moment. To actually stop that from being possible I believe that target engines should be fully disabled before You can start boarding operation. On the other hand there's no pressure as this is a single player game and ppl will always find something to abuse xDCBJ wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:51That would be odd if it were true, but there were improvements to boarding pod launch velocity in 7.00 which made fly-by boarding a lot more difficult to pull off.Lord Dakier wrote: ↑Thu, 16. Jan 25, 11:20 ...people in the community abuse fly-by boarding and it's even more odd that Egosoft has no interest in fixing it.
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Re: "Surrender" Can anyone tell me how to get this to work?
It would be interesting to know whether drive-by boarding inadvertently got easier again in 7.50 as compared to 7.10. Any information on that in the Public Beta Feedback forum would be welcome.