Why Timeline has to be a seperate mode?

[Vovadrik]

I think it is good to have it separately, because at least you don't need to replay it every time you start new game

[Witzzard]

Four main ideas as to the why - a) Better AI and general performance when a full universe isn't simulated in the background. b) Less Overhead to the universe if you don't have the full DLC Story loaded in the background to a degree, even if it's not active. c) Loading scenarios up from the sandbox takes ages and so it's much simpler having an almost empty map to load in/out off. d) No potential interference from the universe in a challenge mode.
But in the end, it's speculative, i just think that Egosoft had pretty good reasons to do it they way they did.

If X4 is that unique, they shouldn't use the same methods as other sandbox games. The current timeline feels like an entirely different game disguised as X4.

Sorry, i've no clue what you're trying to tell me here. I'm speaking about feasability due to technical limitations. And in that Egosoft can and is certainly using some tricks all sandbox games are trying to varying success.
Be it soft limits on how many actors there are (like e.g. a Rimworld), less simulation for stuff not seen (like e.g. Bethesda titles who almost simulate nothing outside of the cells you're close to, afaik), or like now unloading maps and loading you into a "seperate game" (like Total War, Mount and Blade, Jagged Alliance 3, X-COM and Co. do).
So again, no clue what you wanted to tell me here, outside of you disliking the feeling of the DLC, which i disagree with. It feels as part of the X4 universe, with missions highlighting clearly cut gameloops from the sandbox.

[flywlyx]

I think it is good to have it separately, because at least you don't need to replay it every time you start new game

You need to replay all the missions in sandbox, but if you don't want to, you have the option for a custom start.

Sorry, i've no clue what you're trying to tell me here. I'm speaking about feasability due to technical limitations. And in that Egosoft can and is certainly using some tricks all sandbox games are trying to varying success.
Be it soft limits on how many actors there are (like e.g. a Rimworld), less simulation for stuff not seen (like e.g. Bethesda titles who almost simulate nothing outside of the cells you're close to, afaik), or like now unloading maps and loading you into a "seperate game" (like Total War, Mount and Blade, Jagged Alliance 3, X-COM and Co. do).
So again, no clue what you wanted to tell me here, outside of you disliking the feeling of the DLC, which i disagree with. It feels as part of the X4 universe, with missions highlighting clearly cut gameloops from the sandbox.

All the games you mentioned integrate their dungeons with the main game.
If Egosoft has technical limitations preventing this, they should explain and move on. If not, they should link the timeline to the sandbox.
Failing to explain and just moving on is the worst option.

[Witzzard]

Sorry, i've no clue what you're trying to tell me here. I'm speaking about feasability due to technical limitations. And in that Egosoft can and is certainly using some tricks all sandbox games are trying to varying success.
Be it soft limits on how many actors there are (like e.g. a Rimworld), less simulation for stuff not seen (like e.g. Bethesda titles who almost simulate nothing outside of the cells you're close to, afaik), or like now unloading maps and loading you into a "seperate game" (like Total War, Mount and Blade, Jagged Alliance 3, X-COM and Co. do).
So again, no clue what you wanted to tell me here, outside of you disliking the feeling of the DLC, which i disagree with. It feels as part of the X4 universe, with missions highlighting clearly cut gameloops from the sandbox.

All the games you mentioned integrate their dungeons with the main game.
If Egosoft has technical limitations preventing this, they should explain and move on. If not, they should link the timeline to the sandbox.
Failing to explain and just moving on is the worst option.

Yes and then the bigger, more complex titles (like Mount and Blade and Total War or Jagged Alliance 3) inlcude auto-resolve options, to skip being loaded in the dungeons, as the load time to fun isn't worth it quite often. As loading a map for a few minutes (or taking dozens of turns to kill a few enemies with JA3) wasn't deemd worth the players time. Now think again about missions that are designed around some competition that should might be replayed several times to get better scores. Still want 5 minute load time until you can retry a race?

What it comes back towards again is that you think they should rather have spent their time differently. And everyone gets that you might have liked something else. But your question was - why was it designed outside of the sandbox. I tried giving you an answer to that. Even though Egosoft might have had a completly different answer.

[flywlyx]

Yes and then the bigger, more complex titles (like Mount and Blade and Total War or Jagged Alliance 3) inlcude auto-resolve options, to skip being loaded in the dungeons, as the load time to fun isn't worth it quite often. As loading a map for a few minutes (or taking dozens of turns to kill a few enemies with JA3) wasn't deemd worth the players time. Now think again about missions that are designed around some competition that should might be replayed several times to get better scores. Still want 5 minute load time until you can retry a race?

What it comes back towards again is that you think they should rather have spent their time differently. And everyone gets that you might have liked something else. But your question was - why was it designed outside of the sandbox. I tried giving you an answer to that. Even though Egosoft might have had a completly different answer.

Where does this 5-minute load time come from? It takes me around 40 seconds to load the game. Why would a scenario take so long to load?

Racing is clearly not something new and doesn't require this dungeon system to function. I have no idea why you chose this as an example. In my experience, since I can be put into the cockpit with almost a 1-second delay in the sandbox, this dungeon racing taking 10 seconds is already a complete failure.

[T1Rex]

Maybe they could have integrated it into the sandbox with a mission that had you gather logbooks from cool locations (derelict ships, destroyed stations, ancient archives, old battlefields, near exploded planets) and bring it to a person whose archiving these events. This person could have a new device that basically puts you into VR that allows you to relive the event, learn the history and, by the end, learn a schematic or launch code for a ship.

Sure it would still "take the player out of it" but, to me atleast, it'd make the world feel deeper.

Imagine flying into a sector with a burned out planet called "Logans Sacrifice" and the computer gives a brief history snip about a time when the Xenon were first encountered. There was a desperate evacuation and a last stand by a man named Logan who stayed behind to allow so many others to escape. The "archivist" tells you that there is a signal coming from a "blackbox/logbook" and, if you want to know more of the history and lore, you can go find it.

You follow the signal and find it's coming from a derelict ship which was slowly repaired by the one remaining repair drone even tho the occupants died decades ago. You can't start up the ship without the start code so you grab the data recorder and load into the simulation.

In this case you're put in the shoes of this "hero" Logan and you're thrown in a scenario of humanities first desperate encounter with a massive Xenon invasion. You learn about his sacrifice and that he was really only doing it so his daughter, Lily, could escape the sector.

After going thru this massive battle with explosions and death the simulation ends and you're left alone with the quiet of space in the cockpit of this abandoned ship. You enter the code "Lily" and the ship starts up.

Could you get all that by going thru the Main Menu? Sure.

Would one way be more technically capable than the other? Probably.

What would more immersive? You tell me.

[Tharrg]

To me, this Timeline mode is essentially a dungeon: you enter a separate scenario, and what happens there doesn't affect the larger game world.

To me, Timeline is a separate game. I see no meaningful connection to X4-Sandbox.

It have would removed most people's confusion about what Timelines is if it had been marketed as a new game in the X-Franchise.

For X-Timelines to be part of the sandbox your sandbox character could have been able to find and interact with the Timeleins space station. Your sandbox character could then do the scenario sims and then be given a quest marker to the location of the new goodies in their sandbox game.

[Falcrack]

To me, this Timeline mode is essentially a dungeon: you enter a separate scenario, and what happens there doesn't affect the larger game world.
This approach is common in sandboxes, but why does X4 need to make it a separate mode?

Simply for better performance - you don't have whole galaxy simulation running in background.

Not simply for better performance. In the galaxy wide simulation, it is much harder to control the specific scenario and situation of everything else going on in the particular mission. It makes crafting specific scenarios to play much more difficult.

[Tharrg]

To me, this Timeline mode is essentially a dungeon: you enter a separate scenario, and what happens there doesn't affect the larger game world.
This approach is common in sandboxes, but why does X4 need to make it a separate mode?

Simply for better performance - you don't have whole galaxy simulation running in background.

Not simply for better performance. In the galaxy wide simulation, it is much harder to control the specific scenario and situation of everything else going on in the particular mission. It makes crafting specific scenarios to play much more difficult.

I don't follow. When your character enters the Timelines space station you just unload X4 from memory, or not depending on available hardware resources - it could just be kept running in the background, and then start X-timelines with parameters from your current sandbox. When you have finished with the X-Timlines scenarios, The Timeilnes executable could be shut down and X4-Sandbox started with the new data from Timelines.

On more powerful machines both X-Timeliens and X4 could be running concurrently so no need to stop and start. Anyway, I doubt X-Timliens would add much extra resource pressure to X4. X4 does not have to actually do anything while in X-Timelines.

People do realise that X-Timline scenarios are not in the X4-universe but are scenarios from history. So do not effect the X4 -sandbox and are not effected by the X4-sandbox.

[mr.WHO]

I don't follow. When your character enters the Timelines space station you just unload X4 from memory, or not depending on available hardware resources - it could just be kept running in the background, and then start X-timelines with parameters from your current sandbox. When you have finished with the X-Timlines scenarios, The Timeilnes executable could be shut down and X4-Sandbox started with the new data from Timelines.

I bet you don't follow, coz functionally you just proposed what is in the game, just more convoluded.
You have option to jump to open world from Timelines in ESC menu.

[Tharrg]

I bet you don't follow, coz functionally you just proposed what is in the game, just more convoluded.
You have option to jump to open world from Timelines in ESC menu.

That is irrelevant. It's like saying Notepad is part of X4 because you can Alt-Tab into Notepad anytime.

The point is that you do not take your character from timelines into the open world with you, and vice versa. So X-Timeliens is not part of X4 but is a completely new game.

[mr.WHO]

Why would you even need your character between snadbox and Timelines?

There is literally zero practical use for your character shape or form.

[jlehtone]

That is irrelevant. It's like saying Notepad is part of X4 because you can Alt-Tab into Notepad anytime.

The point is that you do not take your character from timelines into the open world with you, and vice versa. So X-Timeliens is not part of X4 but is a completely new game.

The difference between Notepad and Timelines is still that you can have Notepad without X4, but have to own X4 in order to play Timelines. More similar to X3AP, which requires X3TC's files.


How would a visit to holodeck of a museum be substantially different from save&exit?

[Tharrg]

Why would you even need your character between snadbox and Timelines?

There is literally zero practical use for your character shape or form.

The reason for moving your character between sandbox and Timelines is so that you can claim they are connected somehow.

Or to switch it around, if you can't move your character between Timelines and Sandbox then Timeliens is effectively a different game.

The difference between Notepad and Timelines is still that you can have Notepad without X4, but have to own X4 in order to play Timelines.

I admit that you need the X4 engine to run X-Timeliens. However, two games using the same code library does not make them the same game.

[Nerwesta]

Maybe they could have integrated it into the sandbox with a mission that had you gather logbooks from cool locations (derelict ships, destroyed stations, ancient archives, old battlefields, near exploded planets) and bring it to a person whose archiving these events. This person could have a new device that basically puts you into VR that allows you to relive the event, learn the history and, by the end, learn a schematic or launch code for a ship.

Sure it would still "take the player out of it" but, to me atleast, it'd make the world feel deeper.

Imagine flying into a sector with a burned out planet called "Logans Sacrifice" and the computer gives a brief history snip about a time when the Xenon were first encountered. There was a desperate evacuation and a last stand by a man named Logan who stayed behind to allow so many others to escape. The "archivist" tells you that there is a signal coming from a "blackbox/logbook" and, if you want to know more of the history and lore, you can go find it.

You follow the signal and find it's coming from a derelict ship which was slowly repaired by the one remaining repair drone even tho the occupants died decades ago. You can't start up the ship without the start code so you grab the data recorder and load into the simulation.

In this case you're put in the shoes of this "hero" Logan and you're thrown in a scenario of humanities first desperate encounter with a massive Xenon invasion. You learn about his sacrifice and that he was really only doing it so his daughter, Lily, could escape the sector.

After going thru this massive battle with explosions and death the simulation ends and you're left alone with the quiet of space in the cockpit of this abandoned ship. You enter the code "Lily" and the ship starts up.

Could you get all that by going thru the Main Menu? Sure.

Would one way be more technically capable than the other? Probably.

What would more immersive? You tell me.

Preach, this is exactly how I pictured Timelines before knowing it would be something outside the sandbox completely.
It's not an unknown gameplay loop either, we know how to scan for data leaks, or how to take abandoned ships or visit sectors with tons of wrecks.

Here we are set to catwalk on a unknown station we frankly wouldn't visit elsewhere - what gives ?! not like catwalking is an interesting part of this game anyway.
And we're also set to memorise the location of our unlocked content in a whooping half of second, so when we feel like we should boot sandbox, we already forgot the locations anyway.

We did visit a wreck in Kingdom's End, at the very beginning of the DLC. I'm sorry to say it had so much depth, with tidbits of lore given by Boso Ta & and that stranded female Boron pilot we've met.
It was so much better than Timelines, I can't warp my head how Kingdom's End wasn't even focused on playing such events, but rather a fairly good extension with these bits of exploration, lore and of course content.


Back to the topic, having to scan clues of a past battle, so we can revisit it later on would weight much much more than just clicking on a button to launch some sort of self contained scenario.

To me, this Timeline mode is essentially a dungeon: you enter a separate scenario, and what happens there doesn't affect the larger game world.

To me, Timeline is a separate game. I see no meaningful connection to X4-Sandbox.

It have would removed most people's confusion about what Timelines is if it had been marketed as a new game in the X-Franchise.

For X-Timelines to be part of the sandbox your sandbox character could have been able to find and interact with the Timeleins space station. Your sandbox character could then do the scenario sims and then be given a quest marker to the location of the new goodies in their sandbox game.

It really isn't though, every single missions can be done with a much better experience to me inside the sandbox, without weird limitations ( ships loadout anyone ?! ) etc.
I would be glad to know how separate game it is to mine a bunch of ore / ice, and return to a station in less than 7minutes with a Drill while a bunch of Xenons is attacking you, it seems to me that's something I've seen 450 times before on my games.
At least I wasn't forced to complete that to climb a virtual leaderboard, I actually needed the ore for my sandbox, pretty much organically with my own backstory in it, and last but not least I had a real sense of danger if my Drill got wiped out.
Nothing can be said for this " mission ", you can relaunch the whole thing as you please, worst of both worlds actually.

[flywlyx]

Why would you even need your character between snadbox and Timelines?

There is literally zero practical use for your character shape or form.

Then why use X4's name when it has nothing to do with the timeline?
The dungeon shouldn't be separated from the sandbox; otherwise, just release it as a separate game.
A DLC that has nothing to do with the main game undermines players' confidence in the company.

[Jamolotl]

Then why use X4's name when it has nothing to do with the timeline?

Why not?

This seems weirdly pedantic to me. If you want to pretend it's a standalone DLC, just do that. There is functionally no difference besides the fact that you can access it from the same menu. To me it's functionally the same but saves time.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the DLC, but for very different reasons. This seems silly to me.

[flywlyx]

Why not?

This seems weirdly pedantic to me. If you want to pretend it's a standalone DLC, just do that. There is functionally no difference besides the fact that you can access it from the same menu. To me it's functionally the same but saves time.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the DLC, but for very different reasons. This seems silly to me.

Because using X4's name to sell a separate game feels disingenuous. No one likes to be deceived.

[Jamolotl]

Because using X4's name to sell a separate game feels disingenuous. No one likes to be deceived.

I don't feel deceived at all. Did you read the DLC page?

"With a thrilling new storyline which takes place outside of the X4 sandbox, prepare yourself for colossal challenges and unexpected excursions into the depths of the X series lore and history."

Ironically what you're asking for would actually make the DLC even less linked to the main campaign, since it'd complicate tying their progress together somewhat.

[flywlyx]

Ironically what you're asking for would actually make the DLC even less linked to the main campaign, since it'd complicate tying their progress together somewhat.

How could it be less linked if there's no link at all right now?
The progress doesn't need to be tied. Have you played any sandbox games with dungeons? How a dungeon system in a sandbox game should work is quite clear after all these years.