Let's talk about the XL ships.

[Warnoise]

IMO XL ships have too few turrets comparing to their size - this means they have huge blind spots where you are in range on 1 or no turret.

I'd increase XL ships turret count by 25-30%
I'd also add one more L-size turret to each carrier for symetry sake (who thought single L-turret is a good idea?).

In the long run we need XL Battleships to fit old M2 classification.

The problem is the current turrets balance is clearly not designed around XL ships. Their range alone is a dead giveaway.

For XL ships there need to be special turrets that have a lot of range (the same for Stations tbh....they need anti-capital platform with huge range)

[csaba]

This has been discussed to death ever since day 1 of vanilla.

Wether or not carrier should fight close range is a void argument. They should be able to defend themselves regardless if they are actively seeking ship to ship engagement or are forced to. Proper broadsiders are missing from the game everyone agrees but the real issue is the weapon balance.

As far as I gathered there wont be new XL combat ships in SV but there will be some new weapons so there is hope.

The biggest issue is that projectile speeds are extremely fast compared to previous games. Any L turret can hit the smallest fighters so if we fully cover carriers with L turrets they wouldn't just get proper range but also would also zap a squad of fighters out of existence in seconds. There needs to be a return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way too slow and spammy, XR blue plasma or old X2 PPC were the best probably.

[Imperial Good]

The problem is the current turrets balance is clearly not designed around XL ships. Their range alone is a dead giveaway.

Their range is fine. M Pulse Laser has 2820m range while L Pulse Laser has 4479m range. Not all turrets need to be able to shoot at the same time, as long as there are no major blind spots between turrets.

Of course there are currently no XL ships where this matters. Carriers have 40S and 10M ships to defend themselves so their turret coverage does not matter. The rest of the XL ships are non-combat ships.

[csaba]

Their range is fine. M Pulse Laser has 2820m range while L Pulse Laser has 4479m range. Not all turrets need to be able to shoot at the same time, as long as there are no major blind spots between turrets.

Excuse me but when a ship is 1 kilometer in size those numbers are puny. When most people think of scifi battles they imagine long range stand offs with small fighters trying to close the distance similar to ww2 naval engagements where shells fired had a 20 mile (32 km) effective range. I'm not saying capships in X4 need this range but doubling the numbers you've mentioned would make fights look less "immersion breaking".

[dholmstr]

This has been discussed to death ever since day 1 of vanilla.

Wether or not carrier should fight close range is a void argument. They should be able to defend themselves regardless if they are actively seeking ship to ship engagement or are forced to. Proper broadsiders are missing from the game everyone agrees but the real issue is the weapon balance.

As far as I gathered there wont be new XL combat ships in SV but there will be some new weapons so there is hope.

The biggest issue is that projectile speeds are extremely fast compared to previous games. Any L turret can hit the smallest fighters so if we fully cover carriers with L turrets they wouldn't just get proper range but also would also zap a squad of fighters out of existence in seconds. There needs to be a return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way too slow and spammy, XR blue plasma or old X2 PPC were the best probably.

Aren't you contradicting yourself there? "speed are extremely fast compare..." and then you say "needs to be return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way to slow and spammy..."
The XR plasma was perfect in XR becouse of the speed relation between capitals and bullets. Now the cap ships spin around like a blender and the plasma is slower than a snail.

[Sandalpocalypse]

Their range is fine. M Pulse Laser has 2820m range while L Pulse Laser has 4479m range. Not all turrets need to be able to shoot at the same time, as long as there are no major blind spots between turrets.

Excuse me but when a ship is 1 kilometer in size those numbers are puny. When most people think of scifi battles they imagine long range stand offs with small fighters trying to close the distance similar to ww2 naval engagements where shells fired had a 20 mile (32 km) effective range. I'm not saying capships in X4 need this range but doubling the numbers you've mentioned would make fights look less "immersion breaking".

No they don't. They think of Star Wars which involved a lot of ships humping eachother.

[Imperial Good]

Excuse me but when a ship is 1 kilometer in size those numbers are puny. When most people think of scifi battles they imagine long range stand offs with small fighters trying to close the distance similar to ww2 naval engagements where shells fired had a 20 mile (32 km) effective range. I'm not saying capships in X4 need this range but doubling the numbers you've mentioned would make fights look less "immersion breaking".

Except there are no WW2 style naval ships in X4. The only XL ships are Carriers, Supply Ships and Construction Ships. Supply Ships and Construction Ships are not combat ships so are purposely poorly defended with turrets (think civilian cargo ships). Carriers have enough turrets to take shots at any S or M ship that pokes its nose too close but really should not be using them as they are not intended to be engaging in combat directly, like real carriers, since they have 40S and 10M ships to do that for them.

There are no player ownable XL battleships at the moment. If there was then they would likely have around 40-60 turrets rather than just 13 odd, with a dozen or more of them being L turrets. Like the Xenon I, which is the only actual battleship in X4 at the moment. They might even have XL guns and turrets with extra range, as speculated by some of the DLC screenshots.

[csaba]

Their range is fine. M Pulse Laser has 2820m range while L Pulse Laser has 4479m range. Not all turrets need to be able to shoot at the same time, as long as there are no major blind spots between turrets.

Excuse me but when a ship is 1 kilometer in size those numbers are puny. When most people think of scifi battles they imagine long range stand offs with small fighters trying to close the distance similar to ww2 naval engagements where shells fired had a 20 mile (32 km) effective range. I'm not saying capships in X4 need this range but doubling the numbers you've mentioned would make fights look less "immersion breaking".

No they don't. They think of Star Wars which involved a lot of ships humping eachother.

The only scene I remember where enemy ships were humping each other in SW is the EP 3 opening. As far as I can tell they did that because Palpatine was "captured" and they wanted to board the enemy. Correction: they also flown between the imperial fleet during ep 6 to try to avoid the DS laser.

This has been discussed to death ever since day 1 of vanilla.

Wether or not carrier should fight close range is a void argument. They should be able to defend themselves regardless if they are actively seeking ship to ship engagement or are forced to. Proper broadsiders are missing from the game everyone agrees but the real issue is the weapon balance.

As far as I gathered there wont be new XL combat ships in SV but there will be some new weapons so there is hope.

The biggest issue is that projectile speeds are extremely fast compared to previous games. Any L turret can hit the smallest fighters so if we fully cover carriers with L turrets they wouldn't just get proper range but also would also zap a squad of fighters out of existence in seconds. There needs to be a return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way too slow and spammy, XR blue plasma or old X2 PPC were the best probably.

Aren't you contradicting yourself there? "speed are extremely fast compare..." and then you say "needs to be return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way to slow and spammy..."
The XR plasma was perfect in XR becouse of the speed relation between capitals and bullets. Now the cap ships spin around like a blender and the plasma is slower than a snail.

I'm not, that's exactly what I meant to say. Maybe I wasn't clear enough: L plasma is too slow the others a too fast. It could be an illusion of relative sizes and speeds but I'd say the XR plasma was between the 2.

On the speed issue we agree but I'd be surprised that the current plasma that misses the largest targets would hit something like the Taranis which had a top speed of 80 m/s, not that much slower than an X4 carrier with a much more slender cross section.

[dholmstr]

Excuse me but when a ship is 1 kilometer in size those numbers are puny. When most people think of scifi battles they imagine long range stand offs with small fighters trying to close the distance similar to ww2 naval engagements where shells fired had a 20 mile (32 km) effective range. I'm not saying capships in X4 need this range but doubling the numbers you've mentioned would make fights look less "immersion breaking".

No they don't. They think of Star Wars which involved a lot of ships humping eachother.

The only scene I remember where enemy ships were humping each other in SW is the EP 3 opening. As far as I can tell they did that because Palpatine was "captured" and they wanted to board the enemy. Correction: they also flown between the imperial fleet during ep 6 to try to avoid the DS laser.

This has been discussed to death ever since day 1 of vanilla.

Wether or not carrier should fight close range is a void argument. They should be able to defend themselves regardless if they are actively seeking ship to ship engagement or are forced to. Proper broadsiders are missing from the game everyone agrees but the real issue is the weapon balance.

As far as I gathered there wont be new XL combat ships in SV but there will be some new weapons so there is hope.

The biggest issue is that projectile speeds are extremely fast compared to previous games. Any L turret can hit the smallest fighters so if we fully cover carriers with L turrets they wouldn't just get proper range but also would also zap a squad of fighters out of existence in seconds. There needs to be a return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way too slow and spammy, XR blue plasma or old X2 PPC were the best probably.

Aren't you contradicting yourself there? "speed are extremely fast compare..." and then you say "needs to be return to the hard hitting slow projectiles like old days, L/M plasmas are way to slow and spammy..."
The XR plasma was perfect in XR becouse of the speed relation between capitals and bullets. Now the cap ships spin around like a blender and the plasma is slower than a snail.

I'm not, that's exactly what I meant to say. Maybe I wasn't clear enough: L plasma is too slow the others a too fast. It could be an illusion of relative sizes and speeds but I'd say the XR plasma was between the 2.

On the speed issue we agree but I'd be surprised that the current plasma that misses the largest targets would hit something like the Taranis which had a top speed of 80 m/s, not that much slower than an X4 carrier with a much more slender cross section.

It is not as much the top speed of the capitals, but when the turrets try to hit at the edge on a ship where the turrets are, the turning is so damn high on them. The Tanaris wasn't going to do donuts even tou it had high top speed.

[csaba]

It is not as much the top speed of the capitals, but when the turrets try to hit at the edge on a ship where the turrets are, the turning is so damn high on them. The Tanaris wasn't going to do donuts even tou it had high top speed.

Yes Jaw and Pitch needs quite some tuning on big ships. Even though I feel the current plasma cannon would still miss the slow circling maneuvers of XR capitals.

I think it's fine for the destroyers but it really doesn't make sense for the larger ships like the carriers, the I and some of the trading ships like the Shuyaku. This causes the "blender" effects. I think they tried to make them less pain in the *** to self pilot but I really don't agree on that point of Egosoft.