My experience so far

[Derp]

IMO, the X4 economy (and many others systems) do not behave as intended, aka they are broken.

Pretty sure it behaves exactly as intended. The intention was to have every ship be produced by the economy. No engine parts, no engines. But the intention was also to have every game different, with dynamic stations semi-randomized at the start. This means a different economy with different surpluses and shortages each time.

The problem comes in the interaction between the two intended behaviors and player entitlement. Shipyards need to be chronically short on supplies in order for the AI to know what it needs to build more of, but it takes time to make that measurement, to build the station, to build the trade ships, to finally start getting enough of whatever was the bottleneck and identify the new one. So there's a long period of 20 hours or so at the start of every new game where factions need every ship they can get and the player is just out of luck, sorry buddy. The only intention it's breaking is the player's assumption that the limits of the economic simulation shouldn't apply to them personally.

I just wish they would make a few simple ships available to purchase without the JIT production issues. At least one could finish the PHQ quest or do meaningful exploring or trading with a few scouts or S courier/mining ships to choose from that didn't need to be built and were there for the player to buy not the AI.

The ALI wharf in Trinity Sanctum can make traders and light fighters, and no other factions use it. The ALI shipyard in the Pious Mist cluster is there solely so the player can always build a Heracles.

The Boso Ta anomaly mission should be changed to warp you right to the wharf and drop a satellite, just so everyone will know it's there.

[photomankc]

IMO, the X4 economy (and many others systems) do not behave as intended, aka they are broken.

The only intention it's breaking is the player's assumption that the limits of the economic simulation shouldn't apply to them personally.

Fair enough - but I'm the guy that bought their galaxy and runs it on my computer... it's okay to prioritize me a little bit.

[Hero77]

The intention of the economy system is that its self sustaining. The player should be irrelevant. Right now the economy comes to a halt after about 20 hours except if the player intervenes. This player intervention should not be necessary, the system should be able to run on its own.

[photomankc]

The ALI wharf in Trinity Sanctum can make traders and light fighters, and no other factions use it. The ALI shipyard in the Pious Mist cluster is there solely so the player can always build a Heracles.
The Boso Ta anomaly mission should be changed to warp you right to the wharf and drop a satellite, just so everyone will know it's there.

Good point!
I had utterly forgotten about them. Would be nice if something prompted you to go learn about them early and let the new player know they can fall back to that for early ship needs.

[RainerPrem]

The Boso Ta anomaly mission should be changed to warp you right to the wharf and drop a satellite, just so everyone will know it's there.

As boring as that would be for X-Veterans, I really think that the Boso-Ta-plot should lead you through more game mechanics before throwing a HQ in your lap.

I really appreciated the introductory plot in X:Rebirth giving you all the pointers for a better understanding of the game mechanics. Perhaps it would help to integrate the abandoned Oddy in the plot instead of just dropping it in a remote sector.

[Nifhtyeq]

The intention of the economy system is that its self sustaining. The player should be irrelevant. Right now the economy comes to a halt after about 20 hours except if the player intervenes. This player intervention should not be necessary, the system should be able to run on its own.

But aren't ships contracted without player involvement.

[RodentofDoom]

Cruise the main superhighway, you can do that indefinitely and accumulate a large list of active missions.

1. Most factions offer BUILD missions, typically Engine Parts or Hull Parts, sometimes other things. The reward offered varies, but I'd wait for the 10m+ offers to pop up.
2. Multiple 'Resource Location' missions can be completed with the deployment of a single Resource Probe (That you can deactivate and recover for the next set).
3. Go shoot at sparkly space-rocks to harvest Crystals, their value ranges from ~1k to 2.5m per unit.
4. There is an unlockable game-start that gives you a station.

X4 is a sandbox environment, with a random seeding system.
10 individual game starts might share similarities, but each game will be different.
I've yet to experience a total breakdown in the games economy .. even when I've ignored the station building aspects of the game for many days at a time.
My experience tells me many of the complaints are based on unrealistic expectations or the basic ineptitude of the complainer. Take from that what you will.

@Op, X4 is NOT X3. If you're looking for that X3 experience ... guess which game you should be playing.


Edit

Yes, I've encountered bugs, I don't expect not to, because I've played AAA titles that had development teams in the hundreds that had bugs … sometimes months after launch.
None of the bugs have been 'game breaking' as some have claimed, mostly they've forced me to revert to an earlier save-point .. and that is just a minor inconvenience

[zarrazee]

X4 is a sandbox environment, with a random seeding system.
10 individual game starts might share similarities, but each game will be different.

Having created a post a couple of days ago with exactly the same problem, sorry Rodent, but I'm with the OP on this one. Most games in the history of gaming have a starter zone or relaxed game rules which explains gameplay/UI and helps the player to learn the basics. As a noob to X4 I expect to be able to buy a few ships when starting a new "Young Gun" game. Immediately hitting a brick wall with supply chain issues on the start most noobs would choose, seems a bit of an oversight by the devs.

My experience tells me many of the complaints are based on unrealistic expectations or the basic ineptitude of the complainer.

My experience tells me most games have a "safe" beginner area for the noob to learn the basics of the game and help them grow in confidence / competence.

[RodentofDoom]

Here's a THINK+FIGHT solution to the 'oh noes my game is broken coz economy and it's crap'

dock someone and hire some random people as marines
Look for S/M trade-ships in non allied territory (ie ARG/ANT in a MIN/TEL a controlled Sector)
Shoot at one and force the crew to abandon ship
Claim it
Repair it
Queue "xyz ware" buy/sell orders to supply the station where you want to buy a ship
repeat as needed

yes this does mean you will have a ship with no shields/turrets, but it will still complete queued orders
you can add shields etc later once you have made the wharf operational (or sell it …)


non of the above is rocket science
and afaik most of it has tutorials either in-game .. or on youtube

[Artean]

X4 is a sandbox environment, with a random seeding system.
10 individual game starts might share similarities, but each game will be different.

Having created a post a couple of days ago with exactly the same problem, sorry Rodent, but I'm with the OP on this one. Most games in the history of gaming have a starter zone or relaxed game rules which explains gameplay/UI and helps the player to learn the basics. As a noob to X4 I expect to be able to buy a few ships when starting a new "Young Gun" game. Immediately hitting a brick wall with supply chain issues on the start most noobs would choose, seems a bit of an oversight by the devs.

My experience tells me many of the complaints are based on unrealistic expectations or the basic ineptitude of the complainer.

My experience tells me most games have a "safe" beginner area for the noob to learn the basics of the game and help them grow in confidence / competence.

I'm really glad the X series have never had such protected areas. To start at the bottom of the food chain and finding my own way up, often struggling, is the experience I expect.

Intentional or not, Egosofts games have never been mainstream experiences. That's one of the reasons I have been with them for such a long time.

[SpocksBrain]

Hey. I had the same problem. I downloaded some mods that cleared up that nonsense.

Try:

ClassicalEconomy_V0.3-135-0-3-1545658377

TradeStationSink.zip-167-1-2-1545572141

Cleared up the problems right away.

[Nifhtyeq]

Hey. I had the same problem. I downloaded some mods that cleared up that nonsense.

Try:

ClassicalEconomy_V0.3-135-0-3-1545658377

TradeStationSink.zip-167-1-2-1545572141

Cleared up the problems right away.

Honestly there are vanilla ways to purchase ships. By lowering presets and upgrading at equipment docks.

[zarrazee]

That's one of the reasons I have been with them for such a long time.

Me too, played every X game released.

I think a lot of players would like to have the option to buy their 1st ship straight away, rather than having to:
1) Cap a ship
2) Fly about until they find an abandoned ship
3) Wait X hours for their ship to be built

Out of interest, I'll Q up 3 ships & leave X4 (V2.21) running overnight. In the morning, I'll check if the ships have been built (is there a timestamp created in the log if this happens?). I'm genuinely intrigued.

Posted on 04/05/19 - 23.56 (UK time)
Total X4 game time - 1 hour 54 mins
Game time - 825-02/08 12:54
Argon Wharf in Argon Prime - 3 ships Q'ed
Missing resources- 99 engine parts

[zarrazee]

Honestly there are vanilla ways to purchase ships. By lowering presets and upgrading at equipment docks.

Unless I'm missing something, using the minimum preset wont help when there is a shortage of engine or hull parts.

[Nifhtyeq]

Honestly there are vanilla ways to purchase ships. By lowering presets and upgrading at equipment docks.

Unless I'm missing something, using the minimum preset wont help when there is a shortage of engine or hull parts.

If you have a lower part ask for the ship your creating then when they are supplied. Because unless your totally unsupplied by ai as in nothing gets built. Your ship should get constructioned.

[zarrazee]

If you have a lower part ask for the ship your creating then when they are supplied. Because unless your totally unsupplied by ai as in nothing gets built. Your ship should get constructioned.

Unfortunately this suggestion didn't work. After restarting (again), out of 130 stations discovered, not one of them makes engine parts. Subsequently every wharf is dry and AI & I aren't able to build any ships. After 4 hours of flying about doing other stuff, everything is still stagnant and AI still hasn't built an engine parts factory.

I guess I could do more crystal farming and save up enough to buy a large ship; at least "everything is OK" in the ARG SY!

[Nifhtyeq]

If you have a lower part ask for the ship your creating then when they are supplied. Because unless your totally unsupplied by ai as in nothing gets built. Your ship should get constructioned.

Unfortunately this suggestion didn't work. After restarting (again), out of 130 stations discovered, not one of them makes engine parts. Subsequently every wharf is dry and AI & I aren't able to build any ships. After 4 hours of flying about doing other stuff, everything is still stagnant and AI still hasn't built an engine parts factory.

I guess I could do more crystal farming and save up enough to buy a large ship; at least "everything is OK" in the ARG SY!

Do you have your savefile still? Because that's peculiar I know that randomized war affected wharfs to some extent. But I've never seen the economy get to a point where no ships are being constructed. You mentioned argon being good is that only faction I know Antigone are alright and godrealm is decent. Are the wars against xenon still running because if that's the case then it could be lull period in production due to tightening supply lines.

[zarrazee]

Do you have your savefile still?

I've wiped over that one, BUT I had exactly the same problem on my next re-start. I can screenshot it and post imgur links here or drop box the file if you want to have a look? (vanilla v2.21).

[Falcrack]

If you have a lower part ask for the ship your creating then when they are supplied. Because unless your totally unsupplied by ai as in nothing gets built. Your ship should get constructioned.

Unfortunately this suggestion didn't work. After restarting (again), out of 130 stations discovered, not one of them makes engine parts. Subsequently every wharf is dry and AI & I aren't able to build any ships. After 4 hours of flying about doing other stuff, everything is still stagnant and AI still hasn't built an engine parts factory.

I guess I could do more crystal farming and save up enough to buy a large ship; at least "everything is OK" in the ARG SY!

There is more like 600 stations in the game universe, you have more exploring to do. I went overboard and built massive numbers of engine parts in one of my games. The result? Totally saturated the shipyards demand for engine parts, had tons of engine parts I could no longer sell. When one demand is satisfied, other shortages crop up. Whereas before there were plenty of weapon components, for example, when the engine parts shortage is solved, you now have a weapons component shortage. And it goes on. It is very difficult to gets the wares 100% balanced to as to avoid overt shortages of any one particular item.

And low presets on ships is the most reliable way to get them built. That's because if there is a ship ahead of you in the queue which has high presets, and the shipyard cannot build it because it lacks the resources, but it can build your low preset ship, then your ship gets bumped ahead in line. I'm still of the opinion I would rather have a "first come, first served" queue system, even if that means more waiting at shipyards for orders to be fulfilled, but until minds are changed at egosoft, that seems to be the way it is. It can mean that high preset ships are stuck in perpetual limbo as ships keep skipping them in the queue, consuming the resources needed for the high preset ships.