Recycling at docks

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Should docks recycle stuff we sell back to them?

Yes, items sold back to docks are recycled into original parts
40
89%
No, but remove the refund for selling back items to docks
0
No votes
No, keep it just the way it is
5
11%
 
Total votes: 45

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: Recycling at docks

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

Falcrack wrote: Sat, 16. Mar 19, 01:37 As for the exploit, consider this. Buy a massive number of upgrades for a large ship, it costs maybe 9 million credits. Now you have depleted the wares from the station, so the ware prices increase due to scarcity. Now sell back those same upgrade you just purchased. The dock offers you 10 million credits to buy all that stuff back, due to increased ware prices, so you make 1 million credits just by buying and selling back the same upgrades. Buy upgrades again for 10 million, sell for 11 million, again due to greater scarcity than before, because there was no recycling the wares just keep getting destroyed with each successive upgrade/sell back cycle.

I actually tested this out to confirm that this happens. The best way to prevent this exploit, as far as I am concerned is to make it so that when you are paid for items sold back to equipment docks, just knock off maybe 10% or so of the sell back value. Or, make it so that only 80-90% or so of the original wares used for the component construction can be recycled back, and so you get paid less for selling back the same items that way too.
Not exactly an exploit - it is a consequence of the true supply and demand economy. The cost of recycling the goods could be prohibitive and counter productive. The material cost of manufacturing ships is quite small when compared with the ship yard prices.

The same principles can be adopted in other areas of trading - the consequence of automated recycling on sale is that it would not discourage the practice you seem to be complaining about but instead make it easier and more repeatable.

Sale of kit/ships should probably remain as is, with salvage being an option the player has to pay for (at least at NPC facilities) - and can only be done at shipyards/wharfs.

The only way to truly cap the alleged exploit would be to make NPC shipyard ware and equipment prices fixed (possibly at average price, price could be increased as a penalty for lower reputation). However, in general I disagree with the premise that the sequence of events you describe is a true exploit.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
radcapricorn
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Re: Recycling at docks

Post by radcapricorn »

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote: Sat, 16. Mar 19, 13:47 Not exactly an exploit... blah blah... However, in general I disagree with the premise that the sequence of events you describe is a true exploit.
Destroy end products of the economy, make them vanish from the game, thus crippling an NPC facility, while making a profit in the process. Exploit 101. Seriously man, quit arguing for the sake of arguing. It's all you do in any thread you appear in. "0.0001% is significant"... "True" exploit... Sophism.
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: Recycling at docks

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

radcapricorn wrote: Sat, 16. Mar 19, 14:10
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote: Sat, 16. Mar 19, 13:47 Not exactly an exploit... blah blah... However, in general I disagree with the premise that the sequence of events you describe is a true exploit.
Destroy end products of the economy, make them vanish from the game, thus crippling an NPC facility, while making a profit in the process. Exploit 101. Seriously man, quit arguing for the sake of arguing. It's all you do in any thread you appear in. "0.0001% is significant"... "True" exploit... Sophism.
Quit the personal commentary and attacks, just becase I fundamentally disagree with your stance does not mean I am arguing for the sake of arguing. Such line of reasoning shows the weakness of your argument.

As for crippling the NPC facility, that is pure hyperbole. It is part of the game, it is no more "crippling" the NPC facility than buying wares low and selling them high is. The proposed recycling of wares on sale would not fix anything, if anything it would make matters worse since. At least with the current approach there are limits to how often you can do it, if it did not have such limits then it might be considered an exploit. However, given the single player nature of the game it is not as if it matters if one person does or does not engage in such practices in their game.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
radcapricorn
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Re: Recycling at docks

Post by radcapricorn »

I rest my case.
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: Recycling at docks

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

radcapricorn wrote: Sun, 17. Mar 19, 02:34...
The recycling of ships/equipment into materials is a nice-to-have, but not required. If done, it should be an affirmative paid for activity with the wares either being given back to the seller or sold to the station. Recovered wares that exceed available storage space/quotas should be either dumped in space or destroyed. Where current ship/equipment selling is concerned the mechanics should probably remain as-is. If anything is done in this area, perhaps the equipment/ship prices should be either fixed overall or linked to reputation levels.

There are general issues with the current automated price management logic that can lead to player stations making a loss when they should not be. While this is seemingly not a direct concern for NPC controlled stations having the automated management of purchase/sale prices modified so ware prices are never sold for less than they cost to produce/acquire would not be completely unjustified and would have an effect.

Where trade-in/sale price of existing equipment is concerned, the current approach of using the same price as new equipment at the station is pretty fair and reasonable (assuming the equipment being sold/traded in is undamaged - time and/or cost could be added to allow for the repair). There is perhaps grounds for traded-in kit having the ware cost of the replacement equipment at least partly offset, a recycle traded in equipment option could be added but the cost of the recycling should be added to the refit cost.

As it currently stands, the sale of equipment/ships is the only true economy based ware sink in the game and there is no good reason for this to be either nerfed or removed as I see it. I don't use the practice myself but I see no good reason for it to be removed as an option either.

There is nothing about this line of reasoning that is either deceitful, spurious, or disingenuous.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

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