Paranid ships are best in class for almost everything.

[CaptainX4]

Volume per run alone does not matter without the speed per run. If you gave me a choice between a freighter with 100k storage and 100m/s speed, and a freighter with 200 storage and 100km/s speed, I'd take the second one because it's going to make a thousand runs for 200 cargo (200k total) in the time it takes the first one to make one run with 100k cargo.

This is simply calculated with an "efficiency factor" defined by multiplying cargo volume by speed and assuming that docking time is negligible over a long distance. If you multiply cargo volume by travel speed, paranid ships come out consistently on top by a significant margin.

except you forget that while a big cargo freighter can just go from station to station in one run, to do the same with your small freighter you need to go to and back to and back so you would need 2x the eff to do the same trade...

the big freighter can go to a station 200km away with 100k ecells in 2000sec
for the small freighter to do the same trade needs 500 runs TO AND BACK so 200k km that will take it 2000sec. ups...

even though your smaller freighter has 2x the efficiency it needed the same time to finish...

also, you are totally wrong, just checked the biggest freighters of all races except hop, and the argons are way superior in efficiency

[grapedog]

Volume per run alone does not matter without the speed per run. If you gave me a choice between a freighter with 100k storage and 100m/s speed, and a freighter with 200 storage and 100km/s speed, I'd take the second one because it's going to make a thousand runs for 200 cargo (200k total) in the time it takes the first one to make one run with 100k cargo.

This is simply calculated with an "efficiency factor" defined by multiplying cargo volume by speed and assuming that docking time is negligible over a long distance. If you multiply cargo volume by travel speed, paranid ships come out consistently on top by a significant margin.

except you forget that while a big cargo freighter can just go from station to station in one run, to do the same with your small freighter you need to go to and back to and back so you would need 2x the eff to do the same trade...

the big freighter can go to a station 200km away with 100k ecells in 2000sec
for the small freighter to do the same trade needs 500 runs TO AND BACK so 200k km that will take it 2000sec. ups...

even though your smaller freighter has 2x the efficiency it needed the same time to finish...

also, you are totally wrong, just checked the biggest freighters of all races except hop, and the argons are way superior in efficiency

what are you doing with all these facts and stuff on a discussion board...?!?

[MSousa]

Volume per run alone does not matter without the speed per run. If you gave me a choice between a freighter with 100k storage and 100m/s speed, and a freighter with 200 storage and 100km/s speed, I'd take the second one because it's going to make a thousand runs for 200 cargo (200k total) in the time it takes the first one to make one run with 100k cargo.

This is simply calculated with an "efficiency factor" defined by multiplying cargo volume by speed and assuming that docking time is negligible over a long distance. If you multiply cargo volume by travel speed, paranid ships come out consistently on top by a significant margin.

except you forget that while a big cargo freighter can just go from station to station in one run, to do the same with your small freighter you need to go to and back to and back so you would need 2x the eff to do the same trade...

the big freighter can go to a station 200km away with 100k ecells in 2000sec
for the small freighter to do the same trade needs 500 runs TO AND BACK so 200k km that will take it 2000sec. ups...

even though your smaller freighter has 2x the efficiency it needed the same time to finish...

also, you are totally wrong, just checked the biggest freighters of all races except hop, and the argons are way superior in efficiency

Interesting point...
I have to add one more variable to this discussion, the faster transport will it not make more profit? We the player are not the only suppliers so while the BIG slow transport is getting there some of the request might have been filled, prices changed, profit dropped but there is less time for the slower freighter to react, the faster one will complete as many trades as it's possible at maximum profit and quit when its not worth it anymore.

Seems smaller faster traders are better for a more dynamic trading, bigger slower only if you found a very biiiiiig supply hole (or you created one by being... naughty!!!).

My humble opinion at the moment

[CaptainX4]

Interesting point...
I have to add one more variable to this discussion, the faster transport will it not make more profit? We the player are not the only suppliers so while the BIG slow transport is getting there some of the request might have been filled, prices changed, profit dropped but there is less time for the slower freighter to react, the faster one will complete as many trades as it's possible at maximum profit and quit when its not worth it anymore.

Seems smaller faster traders are better for a more dynamic trading, bigger slower only if you found a very biiiiiig supply hole (or you created one by being... naughty!!!).

My humble opinion at the moment

it was like that in x3 but in x4 you fill the orders before you go there, you literally buy and sell in x4 like on ebay. buy/pay/deliver

[Kryptos901]

Volume per run alone does not matter without the speed per run. If you gave me a choice between a freighter with 100k storage and 100m/s speed, and a freighter with 200 storage and 100km/s speed, I'd take the second one because it's going to make a thousand runs for 200 cargo (200k total) in the time it takes the first one to make one run with 100k cargo.

This is simply calculated with an "efficiency factor" defined by multiplying cargo volume by speed and assuming that docking time is negligible over a long distance. If you multiply cargo volume by travel speed, paranid ships come out consistently on top by a significant margin.

except you forget that while a big cargo freighter can just go from station to station in one run, to do the same with your small freighter you need to go to and back to and back so you would need 2x the eff to do the same trade...

the big freighter can go to a station 200km away with 100k ecells in 2000sec
for the small freighter to do the same trade needs 500 runs TO AND BACK so 200k km that will take it 2000sec. ups...

even though your smaller freighter has 2x the efficiency it needed the same time to finish...

also, you are totally wrong, just checked the biggest freighters of all races except hop, and the argons are way superior in efficiency

What are those number from? Can you add some titles? The L class freighters were a little closer together than the M class freighters. My calculations were based on the ALI shipyard for M class, cause you can get all the sentinels with PAR mk3 travel drives, the L class ships I could not compare the same because I didn't buy and refit them with PAR drives, instead looking at the numbers you'd get with individual race engines.

Also, the there-and-back calculation assumes that you're trading from point A to point B only, but in X4, you're likely loading at point A, unloading and then reloading at point B, then unloading and reloading at point C, etc. So there shouldn't be any "dead space" when you're doing a run with no cargo.

[dreildrag1]

Freighters dont use the space lane nor the travel drive on the last leg of hauls from what I seen. They also take a age to figure out and go thew a gate. This means the freighter with a high standard speed gets bonus points.

[MSousa]

it was like that in x3 but in x4 you fill the orders before you go there, you literally buy and sell in x4 like on ebay. buy/pay/deliver

So there is no outrunning competition anymore? Ohhh That trader as the same stuff as me lets see where he is going and try to get there first?
Guess they had to change this so NPC Ships could handle stuff, I Imagine the AI struggling with a large trader full of stuff and now the selling place is no longer buying... and Freighters just lazying around full...

Also a effort to make scanning and trade deal more relevant I guess.

Now!!!... If only my managers wouldn't send a M or L transport to buy 3 energy cells when they have S transports available... that would be magic.

[CaptainX4]

Volume per run alone does not matter without the speed per run. If you gave me a choice between a freighter with 100k storage and 100m/s speed, and a freighter with 200 storage and 100km/s speed, I'd take the second one because it's going to make a thousand runs for 200 cargo (200k total) in the time it takes the first one to make one run with 100k cargo.

This is simply calculated with an "efficiency factor" defined by multiplying cargo volume by speed and assuming that docking time is negligible over a long distance. If you multiply cargo volume by travel speed, paranid ships come out consistently on top by a significant margin.

except you forget that while a big cargo freighter can just go from station to station in one run, to do the same with your small freighter you need to go to and back to and back so you would need 2x the eff to do the same trade...

the big freighter can go to a station 200km away with 100k ecells in 2000sec
for the small freighter to do the same trade needs 500 runs TO AND BACK so 200k km that will take it 2000sec. ups...

even though your smaller freighter has 2x the efficiency it needed the same time to finish...

also, you are totally wrong, just checked the biggest freighters of all races except hop, and the argons are way superior in efficiency

What are those number from? Can you add some titles? The L class freighters were a little closer together than the M class freighters. My calculations were based on the ALI shipyard for M class, cause you can get all the sentinels with PAR mk3 travel drives, the L class ships I could not compare the same because I didn't buy and refit them with PAR drives, instead looking at the numbers you'd get with individual race engines.

Also, the there-and-back calculation assumes that you're trading from point A to point B only, but in X4, you're likely loading at point A, unloading and then reloading at point B, then unloading and reloading at point C, etc. So there shouldn't be any "dead space" when you're doing a run with no cargo.

you can see which line is from which space, i took the biggest cargo freighter from each race with their racial engines, not like if they would change anything imo, the differences if any must be negligible.
pelikan for the teladi and the ministry
selene for the paranid
shuyaku for the argon and antigone
i have no connection to the holy order as im killing them...

"Also, the there-and-back calculation assumes that you're trading from point A to point B only, but in X4, you're likely loading at point A, unloading and then reloading at point B, then unloading and reloading at point C, etc. So there shouldn't be any "dead space" when you're doing a run with no cargo." exactly not, that would be a dream but that doesnt exist in x4 especially not with freighters

[grapedog]

it was like that in x3 but in x4 you fill the orders before you go there, you literally buy and sell in x4 like on ebay. buy/pay/deliver

So there is no outrunning competition anymore? Ohhh That trader as the same stuff as me lets see where he is going and try to get there first?
Guess they had to change this so NPC Ships could handle stuff, I Imagine the AI struggling with a large trader full of stuff and now the selling place is no longer buying... and Freighters just lazying around full...

Also a effort to make scanning and trade deal more relevant I guess.

Now!!!... If only my managers wouldn't send a M or L transport to buy 3 energy cells when they have S transports available... that would be magic.

I think the whole "x3/jumpdrive/player owned ships sniping all the best trade deals" was resolved with the reservation system they seem to have in place now with X4. It doesn't really matter how fast your transport is, or how large it is. It seems now that when your trader finds a trade and queues an order, he now has that order locked in, and can't be sniped, for auto-trading. I think this is actually better for the economy, I know in X3, my traders were CONSTANTLY stealing from the AI traders, because of jumpdrive, and no reserved prices. Now, yes, a faster or larger freighter will bring in more money over time, I'm not arguing that. I'm only saying, with price reservations, you can lock in the deal they find, and don't have to worry about it being stolen by a jumpdrive skipping ahead and getting their first.

I still think manually a player could probably snipe some deals here and there, but for the most part, if you're running 20+ auto traders, 20+ auto-miners, they're going to find better deals than I am, because I have a good sat network, and I'm not going to spend 10 minutes checking every single station to find that best price, for each single freighter... and if that freighter has 10,000 ECells, and most places only want 200... you need to find 5 deals. F that, I'll just let the AI figure it out.

[Kryptos901]

Here's my numbers for the M classes (top for each race only, I have an excel with all of them somewhere):

Demeter sentinel: 9480c, 2544m/s
Vulture sentinel: 12,240c, 1325m/s
Mercury Sentinel: 9840c, 2094m/s

When multiplied, this gives us an adjusted efficiency of:
DS: 24,117,120
VS: 16,218,000
MS: 20,604,960

Meaning the Demeter Sentinel is by far the most efficient.

For L class, I'm getting:

Helios Sentinel: 25,200c, 3656m/s = 92,131,200
Pelican Sentinel: 40,800c, 2027m/s = 82,701,600
Shuyaku Sentinel: 55,200c, 2666m/s = 147,163,200

I guess you're right, the Shuyaku Sentinel is better for L class ships. I did these calculations pre-1.3, so I didn't really focus on L class. Also, might not have included ANT because I might not have had that shipyard yet.

Finally, again, there are some assumptions taking place here. Assumption number one is that docking time is negligible. Assumption number 2 is that the freighter is always loaded. Assumption 1 is relatively safe due to no jumpdrives, as travel takes time. Assumption number 2 is there because you cannot with certainty say that a freighter will travel the equivalent of all the way back to its original starting point to pick up more cargo. This assumption is shaky.

[malkuth1974]

Just my observation.. But its almost like the Paranid are a little more advanced than the other races too. But I'm only basing this on how they design vessels and the interiors. Paranid have more curves and natural running lines, and weld lines and seem more naturally organic. Both Argon and Teladi look like Bolts and Metal sheets...

I know its subjective my view.. but thats just the way I see it. Be interesting to see the Boron ships.

[Reprisal]

The fact that the Paranid Destroyer only gets 59.5k shields cannot be ignored. Teladi gets 109k, Argon gets 99.1k. So really, it's a matter of preference. Do you want to be a glass cannon? Or something a little sturdier with maybe a couple fewer turrets?

And the ability to land M ships is neat, but more useful for peacful situations than combat (which is what a destroyer should be doing). If you're going to carrier, go carrier. One M pad does not a carrier make.

The Odysseus has 72K with Teladi Shields. Teladi Shields are far superior.

[Miravlix]

Check out engines in 1.5 (Though maybe it was always like that)

Because it does seem like PAR has a travel advantage and ARG a cruse speed advantage.

I'm sure I checked before and ARG engines was always worse than PAR, but now if you shift engines it shows green for one area and red in another.

[Kryptos901]

Just my observation.. But its almost like the Paranid are a little more advanced than the other races too. But I'm only basing this on how they design vessels and the interiors. Paranid have more curves and natural running lines, and weld lines and seem more naturally organic. Both Argon and Teladi look like Bolts and Metal sheets...

I know its subjective my view.. but thats just the way I see it. Be interesting to see the Boron ships.

I think the paranid design is the closest to the X3 designs.

Teladi, lore-wise, should have janky looking ships because they're very much a function over form people, and luxury wastes profitsss.

Argons are humans that have been cut off from Earth, so they'd have generally human-ish designs.

Paranid are a bunch of xenophobic religious nutjobs, so..."alien" ship design kinda makes sense.