[WIP] X Consumer Goods (XCG)

[ADMNtek]

I'd like to see a cost per game hour for all our employees as well, and make it substantial...

Employees on stations should consume food and water and if they run out, they should strike and stop production.

Also you could consider maybe a boost if you supply narcotics to them.

if i have to pay employees they need to pay for rent, food, water, healthcare even the electricity.

[Adronyth]

Thanks for the progress update i apreciate this much keep up the good work

[ApoxNM]

Could you please also add more illegal wares? That would be great!

[Conbadicus]

I had an idea like this once before. Something I've always thought would be neat and drive purpose to taking over sectors with planets. Planets have population, population drives goods consumption!

[atrayas]

I'd like to see a cost per game hour for all our employees as well, and make it substantial...

Employees on stations should consume food and water and if they run out, they should strike and stop production.

Also you could consider maybe a boost if you supply narcotics to them.

The added consumption of consumer goods is going to make it harder (for the player and the AI) to maintain the increased production efficiency from habitats. We'll probably increase the efficiency by a little bit to counteract this effect (depending on its magnitude), but we'll consciously make it a bit more expensive to gain said production efficiency.

Outright production stops are not a good idea, because they have the potential to completely flatline the economy if the AI is too dumb to keep its own stations supplied. A broken economy is far worse compared against the benefits we can get from a little bit of increased "realism".

Could you please also add more illegal wares? That would be great!

Since we're bundling consumer goods into two bundles (Consumer Goods and Luxury Goods), we're reluctant to introduce illegal goods just now (logically, we'd have to make the whole bundle illegal, which is not a good idea). We've considered this already and we'll continue to do so in the future. Just can't promise anything.

I had an idea like this once before. Something I've always thought would be neat and drive purpose to taking over sectors with planets. Planets have population, population drives goods consumption!

I've thought about this a lot, too. However, it's probably cheaper for the planet to produce its own goods on the surface. If you think about it, the best reason why we need stations in space is so that we don't have to expend energy on transporting goods into orbit. So it makes sense that consumer goods for citizens in orbit are produced in space, but realistically, consumer goods for planet inhabitants would be produced on the surface (it's cheaper to build on a planet than in space and you don't pay for orbital transportation). The exception are planets that don't have mineral resources themselves. This is understandable for ore and its contents, but silicon and water should be abundant on almost any planet. Hydrogen and methane should also be readily available on the surface. Helium might not be, so it makes sense to mine that in space.

[ApoxNM]

I've thought about this a lot, too. However, it's probably cheaper for the planet to produce its own goods on the surface. If you think about it, the best reason why we need stations in space is so that we don't have to expend energy on transporting goods into orbit. So it makes sense that consumer goods for citizens in orbit are produced in space, but realistically, consumer goods for planet inhabitants would be produced on the surface (it's cheaper to build on a planet than in space and you don't pay for orbital transportation). The exception are planets that don't have mineral resources themselves. This is understandable for ore and its contents, but silicon and water should be abundant on almost any planet. Hydrogen and methane should also be readily available on the surface. Helium might not be, so it makes sense to mine that in space.

And Nividium. Whatever that actually is.

[TearsInRain]

Outright production stops are not a good idea, because they have the potential to completely flatline the economy if the AI is too dumb to keep its own stations supplied. A broken economy is far worse compared against the benefits we can get from a little bit of increased "realism".

Fair enough, but maybe you can penalise production somewhat... I know now everyone plays this game as transport tycoon in space, but for me, the supply chain management aspects has always been a fun and important part of the X games.. having more sinks for resources is a way of keeping the economy really ticking along..

[atrayas]

And Nividium. Whatever that actually is.

Platinum, actually. Yeah, surprised me, too.

Fair enough, but maybe you can penalise production somewhat... I know now everyone plays this game as transport tycoon in space, but for me, the supply chain management aspects has always been a fun and important part of the X games.. having more sinks for resources is a way of keeping the economy really ticking along..

Yeah, I've thought about reducing non-workforce production to e.g. 80% of the current value. Looking at the code, I'm not sure if it's possible without touching basic production numbers. We're reluctant to make far-reaching changes to existing wares because of mod compatibility. Also, another quirk with this approach is that not all stations (especially player stations) have habitats, so we'd penalise non-habitat stations. I'm unsure whether that's good or bad overall. It would slow down the player's station profitability at the start. I guess it depends on the player whether that is a good or bad thing (some players feel the money making is too fast/easy, some feel it's too slow, etc.).

[LennStar]

And Nividium. Whatever that actually is.

Platinum, actually. Yeah, surprised me, too.

Fair enough, but maybe you can penalise production somewhat... I know now everyone plays this game as transport tycoon in space, but for me, the supply chain management aspects has always been a fun and important part of the X games.. having more sinks for resources is a way of keeping the economy really ticking along..

Yeah, I've thought about reducing non-workforce production to e.g. 80% of the current value. Looking at the code, I'm not sure if it's possible without touching basic production numbers. We're reluctant to make far-reaching changes to existing wares because of mod compatibility. Also, another quirk with this approach is that not all stations (especially player stations) have habitats, so we'd penalise non-habitat stations. I'm unsure whether that's good or bad overall. It would slow down the player's station profitability at the start. I guess it depends on the player whether that is a good or bad thing (some players feel the money making is too fast/easy, some feel it's too slow, etc.).

It's too fast, but certainly not from stations. Or automaatic trades with the freighters trading 3 soja husks. through 5 sectors...

[atrayas]

It's too fast, but certainly not from stations. Or automaatic trades with the freighters trading 3 soja husks. through 5 sectors...

Yeah, true. Stations are pretty expensive compared to their revenue. I've been analysing production values of existing wares to get balanced price&production values for our own wares. For example, the maximum revenue of a wheat production module (no habitats) is about 200k, if you sell all your wheat at highest price. The module costs about 1.8 million credits (just the module, not even the whole station!) to build. Since we also have to account for water and energy cell inputs (either produced on its own or bought), you're looking at more than 12 hours of game time to amortise the module. Of course, subsequent production (e.g. using wheat in medical supplies production) will probably double these profits, but also requires more investment. Compared to miners, which can recoup their costs within the first hour, stations seem expensive, but I think – as you alluded to – some especially early-game money making is overtuned (especially miners).

[ApoxNM]

How iz ze progress on ze mod?

[LennStar]

How iz ze progress on ze mod?

Modder got bitten by a vampire and is in hospital.

[atrayas]

How iz ze progress on ze mod?

Someone figured out one of us is German!

I'm currently spreadsheeting prices and production values for our new wares. The other guys are figuring out the best way to implement the mod.

Modder got bitten by a vampire and is in hospital.

The whole hospital is already infected!

[jmattspartacus2]

Hey guys, I was perusing your git earlier, and noticed the guide portion of it. You mention that you aren't sure of the function of libraries/modulegroups.xml it seems to be where the game points to macro that defines the module that an AI station is built around.

To go along with that, I think modules.xml contains the other modules that the AI can/will attach to it's stations with the module the station is built around, along with the weights for each of those modules.

I verified this through some experimentation by removing modulegroups.xml from the mod that I'm working on, and starting a fresh game to let the AI generate new stations. None of the newly generated stations included the new modules I added to the game, but I was still able to use my modules (coincidentally I was trying to do this because the mod I've made would break the economy in the hands of the AI)
Removing modules.xml has a similar effect, minus the errors in the log.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of depths the mod you guys are working on adds!

[SpaceCadet11864]

Hey guys, I was perusing your git earlier, and noticed the guide portion of it. You mention that you aren't sure of the function of libraries/modulegroups.xml it seems to be where the game points to macro that defines the module that an AI station is built around.

To go along with that, I think modules.xml contains the other modules that the AI can/will attach to it's stations with the module the station is built around, along with the weights for each of those modules.

I verified this through some experimentation by removing modulegroups.xml from the mod that I'm working on, and starting a fresh game to let the AI generate new stations. None of the newly generated stations included the new modules I added to the game, but I was still able to use my modules (coincidentally I was trying to do this because the mod I've made would break the economy in the hands of the AI)
Removing modules.xml has a similar effect, minus the errors in the log.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of depths the mod you guys are working on adds!

Nice! Thanks for looking into this! I was really confused about it.

[jmattspartacus2]

No problem, the mod I'm gonna roll out in a little while adds a second variant of every production module, and I couldn't afford to not know what they did.

[Adronyth]

So silent here hows it going ?

[LennStar]

So silent here hows it going ?

It's Christmas and new Year. Not everyone is sitting at home alone with time to play or mod like we

[SpaceCadet11864]

Just an update, we've been working on detailing each of the new wares, carefully calculating their usage and how they will affect the economy.

[ADMNtek]

i was thinking what if you took the useless connector pieces and turned them into things like luxury apartments, shopping/entertainment centers and similar some such. that use consumer goods to boost your stations attractiveness and increase the level at witch you gain workforce maybe even make you a couple credits.