Are shipyards basically immortal now? (update: ACTUALLY NO, they are not)

[nemhook]

It looks like stations can't be destroyed , once there hull indicator is grey, it stays red and visible

however, anything that says defence station can be destroyed completely, and that's what you need to destroy in order to take over the sector.

it's a shame that when you take it over, any dead red stations don't disappear and just makes it look ugly

not sure how events will play out if i'm able to take over a sector with a shipyard still in it, think it might be under constant rebuild and attack, since you can't order your ships to defend the sector properly and kill enemy ships automatically

[Arze]

Yes shipyards are completely Invincible.

I sent 500 million credits worth of ships at the one Im attacking 10 destroyers and god knows how many M and S class ships, I had to manually provide parts at a loss to shipyards across all of space to pull it off too! I killed everything in 4 Xenon sectors except the shipyard. I found out that it was building itself while being under attack so I destroyed its resources from the building stockpile near the base, btw building stockpile's themselves are invulnerable so kill the boxes. It went on for 2 days aprox 17 hours in seta with the station being on 0 health and its still alive. I even left the system so they wont just attacked the center structure and then shoot into space like morons. It is positively impossible to kill shipyards right now.


The fanboys said I should start a new game since 1.30 fixes everything. So I did, yet to get there but I bet my ass it will be invincible again. Since the Xenon and Khaak ships already gone or only the straglers that are either spawned in at the periphery at the start. Everything else is pretty much dead again. SO I bet the same issue about this will surface again since it was not in the patch notes.

[Arze]

So the stations are not only totally indestructible, but can also lure a fleet trying to destroy it and basically keep it there forever, or until the fleet is all destroyed by the regenerating station defenses?
That seems pretty bad...

You should not use any form of slaving ships to one another. From my experience the master ship loads the slave ships with hundreds of orders at a time. If you order raw ships and not fleets and wings you can peel them off of stations at any time.

[BlackRain]

Yes shipyards are completely Invincible.

I sent 500 million credits worth of ships at the one Im attacking 10 destroyers and god knows how many M and S class ships, I had to manually provide parts at a loss to shipyards across all of space to pull it off too! I killed everything in 4 Xenon sectors except the shipyard. I found out that it was building itself while being under attack so I destroyed its resources from the building stockpile near the base, btw building stockpile's themselves are invulnerable so kill the boxes. It went on for 2 days aprox 17 hours in seta with the station being on 0 health and its still alive. I even left the system so they wont just attacked the center structure and then shoot into space like morons. It is positively impossible to kill shipyards right now.


The fanboys said I should start a new game since 1.30 fixes everything. So I did, yet to get there but I bet my ass it will be invincible again. Since the Xenon and Khaak ships already gone or only the straglers that are either spawned in at the periphery at the start. Everything else is pretty much dead again. SO I bet the same issue about this will surface again since it was not in the patch notes.

Do you know which part of the station you couldn't destroy? Maybe there is a certain part that is indestructible but not all of it. I will look through the macros but I don't want to spend time looking through each one. If I can pinpoint it that would be better. From what I see, the berths are destructible. I don't see anything in there that says they can't be destroyed (like stations from rebirth). It could be something hardcoded though or perhaps something else. If it could at least be modded, that would be good! I had to create a workaround in rebirth to get stations to be able to be destroyed and it was annoying and didn't always work 100% but it is possible.

[Wou]

You should not use any form of slaving ships to one another. From my experience the master ship loads the slave ships with hundreds of orders at a time. If you order raw ships and not fleets and wings you can peel them off of stations at any time.

Not talking about my own ship, someone above wrote something about a Teladi fleet being tied up trying to destroy one of those shipyard to no avail.
So if an NPC fleet decides to go for such indestructible target it's pretty much gone for good.

[Zealoth]

I feel pretty strongly about indestructible shipyards. It just sucks. If the players ever feel like just wiping out a faction they should be able to do so. Each faction should also have a strong home defence fleet in case enemies tag up too much. With artificial limits to max fleet sizes should also help keep the factions from snowballing crazily. Fighting near a shipyard constantly pumping out new ships should be an uphill battle naturally as well.

If the player completely wipes out Xenon. The AGI was able to use jumpgates to do rapid incursions. Why not have a special condition, where after the player wipes out all Xenon shipyards (and some time elapses/net worth treshold is reached by player) the Xenons get pissed and just send an armada that warps to a semi-random sector, clears it and just goes all Isengard, cranking out ships way more agressively than before?

[ryansims91]

Well I got one carrier 8 destroyers, 24 frigates and corvettes and a bee hive worth of fighters. Ill let you know how it goes.

[LennStar]

Shipyards, wharfs, equipment docks and some other stations (including some defense stations) are marked as "godstation" in the savefile (class="godstation").

In my mind, this means they're invulnerable.

What the hell if true
What's the point of waging a war against a faction if you can't even defeat it?

The point is to prevent that faction from going extinct so to not blow up the game.

Someone reported that a Xenon station had more health regen than a Argon fleet and his 5(?) destroyers.

[Wou]

The point is to prevent that faction from going extinct so to not blow up the game.

Sure. But then why would I bother doing anything but defending my assets, why would I ever try to mass a fleet and invade their space, why would I participate in any of the faction vs faction wars if it's something that's just impossible to win?
If eliminating xenon means that there is no challenge left in the universe - so be it. It's a sandbox, it's my game to play and mine to "blow up". That play-through is finished and I may start another one, doing stuff differently.
Or do something else with my life I guess.

[Gabeux]

BlackRain, if you can and are able, check info on self-repairing capabilities of stations, and also the hull/repair values of L Docks. To me, that and the ability to repair turrets too fast is the current issue.
Overall, stations modules have too much hull for my tastes, but I'd give it a pass for vanilla. The L Docks however (at least from the Paranid), are stupid, and repair uber fast.

Yes shipyards are completely Invincible.

I sent 500 million credits worth of ships at the one Im attacking 10 destroyers and god knows how many M and S class ships, I had to manually provide parts at a loss to shipyards across all of space to pull it off too! I killed everything in 4 Xenon sectors except the shipyard. I found out that it was building itself while being under attack so I destroyed its resources from the building stockpile near the base, btw building stockpile's themselves are invulnerable so kill the boxes. It went on for 2 days aprox 17 hours in seta with the station being on 0 health and its still alive. I even left the system so they wont just attacked the center structure and then shoot into space like morons. It is positively impossible to kill shipyards right now.


The fanboys said I should start a new game since 1.30 fixes everything. So I did, yet to get there but I bet my ass it will be invincible again. Since the Xenon and Khaak ships already gone or only the straglers that are either spawned in at the periphery at the start. Everything else is pretty much dead again. SO I bet the same issue about this will surface again since it was not in the patch notes.

Do you know which part of the station you couldn't destroy? Maybe there is a certain part that is indestructible but not all of it. I will look through the macros but I don't want to spend time looking through each one. If I can pinpoint it that would be better. From what I see, the berths are destructible. I don't see anything in there that says they can't be destroyed (like stations from rebirth). It could be something hardcoded though or perhaps something else. If it could at least be modded, that would be good! I had to create a workaround in rebirth to get stations to be able to be destroyed and it was annoying and didn't always work 100% but it is possible.

[BlackRain]

BlackRain, if you can and are able, check info on self-repairing capabilities of stations, and also the hull/repair values of L Docks. To me, that and the ability to repair turrets too fast is the current issue.
Overall, stations modules have too much hull for my tastes, but I'd give it a pass for vanilla. The L Docks however (at least from the Paranid), are stupid, and repair uber fast.

Yes shipyards are completely Invincible.

I sent 500 million credits worth of ships at the one Im attacking 10 destroyers and god knows how many M and S class ships, I had to manually provide parts at a loss to shipyards across all of space to pull it off too! I killed everything in 4 Xenon sectors except the shipyard. I found out that it was building itself while being under attack so I destroyed its resources from the building stockpile near the base, btw building stockpile's themselves are invulnerable so kill the boxes. It went on for 2 days aprox 17 hours in seta with the station being on 0 health and its still alive. I even left the system so they wont just attacked the center structure and then shoot into space like morons. It is positively impossible to kill shipyards right now.


The fanboys said I should start a new game since 1.30 fixes everything. So I did, yet to get there but I bet my ass it will be invincible again. Since the Xenon and Khaak ships already gone or only the straglers that are either spawned in at the periphery at the start. Everything else is pretty much dead again. SO I bet the same issue about this will surface again since it was not in the patch notes.

Do you know which part of the station you couldn't destroy? Maybe there is a certain part that is indestructible but not all of it. I will look through the macros but I don't want to spend time looking through each one. If I can pinpoint it that would be better. From what I see, the berths are destructible. I don't see anything in there that says they can't be destroyed (like stations from rebirth). It could be something hardcoded though or perhaps something else. If it could at least be modded, that would be good! I had to create a workaround in rebirth to get stations to be able to be destroyed and it was annoying and didn't always work 100% but it is possible.

I would have to look through a few files and see what I can see.

[Wou]

Turns out you don't need THAT much firepower to bring it down to 0% hull, my ragtag band of found ships did just fine:

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Problem is, even at 0% it is not destroyed, and repair drones keep coming out of the ruins:

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and I can bet that if I call my ships back it will be back in order in no time.

so yeah, they aren't "basically immortal", they're just immortal. Or indestructible rather.
This sucks.

...at least I'm glad I managed to find out while the Xenon aren't much of a threat.
If I went through all of the trouble to invade and clean up a proper swarming Xenon sector only to find out I can't have the final kaboom then damn, I would be pissed.



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edit: on a plus site looks like attacking an invincible but not firing back station is an excellent training for my pilots, they all went from 0 to 2 stars in piloting and morale. I guess I'll just leave my ships there, endlessly firing at the station so at least it doesn't come back

[Solflame]

And just to confirm, you've blown up *every* module, right?

[DarkDracos]

Lowest ive gotten a station was 5% before it magic rep'ed to 50% that was 10 Destroyers 20 Frigates and 30 fighters for support, it melted to 5% and this poof back to 50, and stayed there

[Wou]

And just to confirm, you've blown up *every* module, right?

I'm pretty sure that yeah, it all looked like ruins. I took a trip with my ship through them dropping lasertowers around.
Fun thing: as soon as I left the sector they all have been somehow pushed outside:

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And that's not even the end of it, with one invincible station I could deal, surround it with laser turrets, keep at least one ship attacking it and so on. But there's more.
There's an invincible Solar Power Plant of all things in another Scale Plate Green sector, stopped at 0% and didn't die too, preventing from being able to "clean out" that sector:

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And then there is a wharf and another defence station just outside of the default map range in the first one (bottom left) and I'm not even gonna bother wasting my time trying to destroy them.
Egosoft, I feel disappointed.

[Arze]

BlackRain, if you can and are able, check info on self-repairing capabilities of stations, and also the hull/repair values of L Docks. To me, that and the ability to repair turrets too fast is the current issue.
Overall, stations modules have too much hull for my tastes, but I'd give it a pass for vanilla. The L Docks however (at least from the Paranid), are stupid, and repair uber fast.

Do you know which part of the station you couldn't destroy? Maybe there is a certain part that is indestructible but not all of it. I will look through the macros but I don't want to spend time looking through each one. If I can pinpoint it that would be better. From what I see, the berths are destructible. I don't see anything in there that says they can't be destroyed (like stations from rebirth). It could be something hardcoded though or perhaps something else. If it could at least be modded, that would be good! I had to create a workaround in rebirth to get stations to be able to be destroyed and it was annoying and didn't always work 100% but it is possible.

I would have to look through a few files and see what I can see.

No I did not check which module I could not destroy, because it does not matter. On the galaxy map combat works on overall health. This is the sole reason we can even destroy stations since the AI WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT target only the core module AND ONLY the core module every friggin time if you are also there. But if you MUST look at something then try looking at the part about stuff in construction. The only other station that happened to become invincible was a defense station that I destroyed, again from galaxy map, since the first time I was looking and the fleet kept shooting at nothing, had an invisible central module that I assume to be being built but I destroyed the resources. Every other station I destroyed with overwhelming force from the map. The only reason I destroyed the Shipyards storage even after thinking it would make it invincible because it kept rebuilding itself with infinite resources. Which makes me wonder why it can't build ships.

[ezra-r]

Yes shipyards are completely Invincible.

I sent 500 million credits worth of ships at the one Im attacking 10 destroyers and god knows how many M and S class ships, I had to manually provide parts at a loss to shipyards across all of space to pull it off too! I killed everything in 4 Xenon sectors except the shipyard. I found out that it was building itself while being under attack so I destroyed its resources from the building stockpile near the base, btw building stockpile's themselves are invulnerable so kill the boxes. It went on for 2 days aprox 17 hours in seta with the station being on 0 health and its still alive. I even left the system so they wont just attacked the center structure and then shoot into space like morons. It is positively impossible to kill shipyards right now.


The fanboys said I should start a new game since 1.30 fixes everything. So I did, yet to get there but I bet my ass it will be invincible again. Since the Xenon and Khaak ships already gone or only the straglers that are either spawned in at the periphery at the start. Everything else is pretty much dead again. SO I bet the same issue about this will surface again since it was not in the patch notes.

how do you play to each so much cash?

[Gabeux]

Yeah, they gotta fix this. With the fixes to the war, it's stupid seing invencible stations. I even added a mod to make destroyers guns' hugely powerful, and it becomes clear the station-killing feature is broken, intentionally or not. They keep repairing themselves, and eventually they will die but may take forever since they keep repairing already dead modules once it's close to dying.

And in order to correctly kill a station, you have to kill all modules (available in the Object list, first tab of the Map menu, by expanding the station you're fighting).

[Axeface]

In my game I just entered Matrix 451 and there is a Teladi fleet (a big one) next to a 'destroyed' Xenon station (its icon is grey on the map, not red). Yet they are all shooting at an invulnerable Build Storage module... and drones just keep spawning from the stations wreck.
If some stations really arnt destroyable... well, I'de find that very annoying. One of the selling points of X4 was the dynamic universe...

And for the record I dont think it should be possible to permenantly wipe out a faction, if they get wiped out then they should return with a fleet and get another foothold. Its not like destoying a factions entire space presence is wiping them out is it, there are inhabited planets everywhere.

[Wou]

Hm, now this is interesting.

So there has been 3 days, quite a few hours of playtime has passed + extra some from SETA, and the Xenon Shipyard is still at 0% hull, not destroyed but apparently not rebuilding itself either
img taken just now:

Spoiler

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To make things more interesting the other invincible station I brought down to 0%, SPP in the other Scale Plate Green got back to full health in like an hour or so.
So did I encounter a bug that prevents a station that should regenerate from regenerating, or is it all even more mechanically confusing?