Map size increase in the future?

[Senar]

player shipyards

They already are in game from day one as a ship production modules.

[JamesTheClarke]

In that sense, X:R is much closer to being the same game series as X3 than Super Mario is to Mario Party; Mario Party and Super Mario only have the characters as similar, everything else is different, while X:R is almost the same exact gameplay as earlier games in the X series.

I've changed it to a Wario VS Mario comparison in an edit to make it a bit more accurate metaphor but you were so darn quick at quoting me.

But back on topic: if Egosoft names the game in sequence to X2 and X3 then they create a certain set of expectations regarding the scope of the game at launch. If those expectations are not met because they orient themselves more towards their last game rather than the one they are referencing in the title, then they are setting themselves up for disappointing a range of fans and X-vets to a certain extent. One reason why they may have chosen this name may be that Rebirth's title was and still is in the minds of many games following the release at the time tainted. Thus calling it Rebirth 2 may have been evaluated as too risky by the marketing department. But all of that is pure speculation on my part.

Even in direct comparison to Rebirth, X4 still offers less content as it is missing half the cast. Yeah, you can once again fly every ship of every faction, but half of them are not here at release. When evaluating a game for myself I always look at what is here at launch, I cannot laud it for what it potentially, possibly maybe will be one day. I fully agree that Egosoft has a good track record of patching their games over time, but they also had a good track record of including their main factions at release.

Like I said a couple of times across the forums when this topic is discussed: I wouldn't be as worried if the current three factions had a larger ship catalogue and if the existing sub-factions were less copy-paste and more interestingly defined as let's say Goners, ATF or OTAS was. To me, the current effort made with regard to factions is bare-bones and minimal. If major factions are cut out and ships are fewer in numbers then at the very, very least the sub-factions should have been worked upon more - so what I'm saying is: right now I don't feel the "amount of effort" with regards to factions and sub-factions.

Other parts of the game are a different story and overall with the rest of X4, I am very pleased. Heck, if this was an early access title I'd recommend it as a great release to everyone I can type or shout at.

[Kadatherion]

Let's be completely honest: it's not just that there are fewer ship variants across fewer races. It's that among those few there are, half of them also look pretty much the same. Teladi L/XL ships, be them freighters or combat capital ships, all look almost the exact same, most freighters look the same (although they did in previous titles as well, at least among their own race), we pretty much have only one M6 equivalent per race (mentioning that class because it's the one most used by most players for its versatility: the fact the "special" playership in the past was the Hyperion Vanguard M6 wasn't a coincidence), and they all look samey as well because the modular dock forces them to be pretty much boxes with a few spikes at most.

If all the ships that are in now were different, varied, detailed and overall had a nicer design (this is more subjective ofc, but there is a reason why an X Fighter, a Star Destroyer or the Enterprise are designs that have grown to become loved by most people, while no friggin body gives a damn about others), we would be fine. Yes, there would still be some obvious holes to fill, but we would be mostly fine. We aren't though, because not only we are lacking in the quantity department, we are lacking in the quality one too. They are few, they have no variety, they don't even differ much in functionality (pretty much no difference between a Paranid ship or a Teladi one: bit more faster, bit more shielded, but that's it, no weapon or loadout difference because... well, we also have almost no weapon variety too and no weaponry distinction between races), nor do they differ much in role (you can easily destroy M2s even with M4s as if this was Freelancer). The game has few features in this department, and those it has are flat. That's a conceptual issue that should worry a bit more than what's just evidently not working or is not included at launch because there was no time and enough resources to finish/polish/test it.

[JamesTheClarke]

Let's be completely honest: it's not just that there are fewer ship variants across fewer races. It's that among those few there are, half of them also look pretty much the same. Teladi L/XL ships, be them freighters or combat capital ships, all look almost the exact same, most freighters look the same (although they did in previous titles as well, at least among their own race), we pretty much have only one M6 equivalent per race (mentioning that class because it's the one most used by most players for its versatility: the fact the "special" playership in the past was the Hyperion Vanguard M6 wasn't a coincidence), and they all look samey as well because the modular dock forces them to be pretty much boxes with a few spikes at most.

If all the ships that are in now were different, varied, detailed and overall had a nicer design (this is more subjective ofc, but there is a reason why an X Fighter, a Star Destroyer or the Enterprise are designs that have grown to become loved by most people, while no friggin body gives a damn about others), we would be fine. Yes, there would still be some obvious holes to fill, but we would be mostly fine. We aren't though, because not only we are lacking in the quantity department, we are lacking in the quality one too. They are few, they have no variety, they don't even differ much in functionality (pretty much no difference between a Paranid ship or a Teladi one: bit more faster, bit more shielded, but that's it, no weapon or loadout difference because... well, we also have almost no weapon variety too and no weaponry distinction between races), nor do they differ much in role (you can easily destroy M2s even with M4s as if this was Freelancer). The game has few features in this department, and those it has are flat. That's a conceptual issue that should worry a bit more than what's just evidently not working or is not included at launch because there was no time and enough resources to finish/polish/test it.

Personally I really like the Paranid design in stations and ships. I feel Egosoft did a great job at making that race distinct, however the race needs an update to give the two Paranid Empires more defined and interesting identities in this civil war. Been talking about that and sub-faction refinement in my post Factions - A Missing Opportunity. I've been trying to get a bit of brainstorming going on, how we could make sub-factions better so if you got ideas and like to talk about this topic I'd be happy if you join the thread.

Regarding Teladi and Argon design mash-up, this is really an issue. For example, if you remove the dome habitat model of a Teladi station it becomes quickly apparent that it is incredibly hard to tell them apart from Argon stations. They are just way too similar in design.

[Artean]

The universe is bigger than what it seams. The sector map borders expand. Counting sectors is, imo, rather pointless.

I have no problem buying DLCs that will further expand the universe, races, ships and gameplay.

[Kadatherion]

Personally I really like the Paranid design in stations and ships. I feel Egosoft did a great job at making that race distinct, however the race needs an update to give the two Paranid Empires more defined and interesting identities in this civil war. Been talking about that and sub-faction refinement in my post Factions - A Missing Opportunity. I've been trying to get a bit of brainstorming going on, how we could make sub-factions better so if you got ideas and like to talk about this topic I'd be happy if you join the thread.

Regarding Teladi and Argon design mash-up, this is really an issue. For example, if you remove the dome habitat model of a Teladi station it becomes quickly apparent that it is incredibly hard to tell them apart from Argon stations. They are just way too similar in design.

I will as soon as I can, got to start my turn at work in 10, so maybe later this evening

As for stations... heh, I agree, but I also remember very well how EQ docks, trade stations and Shipyards all had the very same (and mostly lackluster) models with no race distinction at first in X3, before the work and the ideas done in Xtended made their way in the official game too. Basic X4 is an improvement over basic X3 in that department at least. As for the two Paranid factions, it's going to be hard to really differentiate them in a very sensible way: they would need to have very similar assets - they still are Paranids and the civil war hasn't really changed their core culture or physiology - that yet feel different *enough*. Be it the new modular system of ship and station designs or other reasons, we seem to even lack the resources to differentiate much between major races, subtlety is going to be even harder to achieve. But yes, I miss the Yakis, or the pirate carracks and blastclaws, but I'll expand on this in your thread