X4 Reviews

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

But, egosoft now, sadly, has a reputation for broken game releases that take months to fix. That's just a true hard fact.
They have to know that hiding behind a wall of silence, and then pulling up the curtain last-minute on Release Day, and saying, "Here it is! Thanks for your money! See ya next year for the needed repairs!" is no longer an operational plan. At some point, they need to learn from their mistakes, one would think, and expect. Business Plans... investors expect positive returns... customers expect a proper, working product... all that stuff.
Now, if they truly have an outstanding, fully-functioning product from the jump, this time, and are just waiting proudly smug to say "We told you!" I will gladly eat crow, and humbly apologize for my lack of faith.

Yes, that is also known. It bugs me how people keep posting "wait for release." Well, then what's the point of gaming conventions, screening events, auto shows, and anything of that nature, if not to show the public a sample of what they'll be buying?
Yes, developers abandoning a project is a constant fear of gamers. I know, it happened to me. Yet I don't think Egosoft has survived 20 years by absconding with your money after every release. Games have bugs at launch. Yet Egosoft sticks with it. They don't just put a 1.0 sticker on an unfinished game and move on to the next project. Even if it takes years, they come through.

From the TVTropes page:

*Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things: The aforementioned CBJ calls fans out on the endless whining about there being very little news from Egosoft about X Rebirth for about a year and a half. When they were posting a screenshot a week, people started demanding more info and videos, at which point ES basically said "screw this."
shea: But i still cant understand why a few screenshots every week cant be posted,
CBJ: The irony of this is that when we were posting weekly screenshots, people were complaining that it wasn't enough and demanded videos. When we provided a video they demanded gameplay information. The reality is that no matter what we provide, people will always want more, and this thread will run on regardless, with those people who are inclined to do so getting irate and impatient. Again, we know people want more information, but despite what some of those may people think, doing what they want isn't always the right course of action when the bigger picture is taken into account.


This is the age-old position of "if you give a mouse a cookie." However, customers like to see some idea of what they'll be getting, thus the aforementioned preview events. Especially when the majority of info we have is a year out of date, and there's only a week until launch.

Wait... can a digital game "go gold?"

[Zloth2]

Zombie - OK, good clarification.

But, egosoft now, sadly, has a reputation for broken game releases that take months to fix. That's just a true hard fact.
They have to know that hiding behind a wall of silence, and then pulling up the curtain last-minute on Release Day, and saying, "Here it is! Thanks for your money! See ya next year for the needed repairs!" is no longer an operational plan. At some point, they need to learn from their mistakes, one would think, and expect. Business Plans... investors expect positive returns... customers expect a proper, working product... all that stuff.
Now, if they truly have an outstanding, fully-functioning product from the jump, this time, and are just waiting proudly smug to say "We told you!" I will gladly eat crow, and humbly apologize for my lack of faith.

But it isn't just now. The reason I sat out Rebirth's opening was because I got burned in X3:TC and saw plenty of posts back then about how Egosoft has weak releases. But then I saw them not just fix up the game but add to it, and add to it, and add to it again. I don't have any numbers but it seemed like there were more people playing as time went on!

Seems to me like this business plan wouldn't work. I was calling for them to use the Early Access system to deal with the problem of consumer confidence. Without that, everyone would be like me: Egosoft would release the game, a quarter million people would put it on their wish list, and maybe a dozen friends and relatives would actually buy it. The cash would run out while all the customers were waiting for a better version to show up! But it seems everyone isn't like me and Egosoft keeps plugging away. One of the reasons I keep popping in here is because I can't believe that so many people are hyped about the release!

It's not totally unique: 4X games often come out a mess then get fixed up over the next couple of years. Hello Games might find themselves using this model whether they like it or not. It sure is weird, though.

[csaba]

You guys are missing a point here.

They didn't or can't make a working promo version of the game. That takes time and resources. Might not even be possible because how X background simulations work, they'd have to make an entirely different game with the few assets they are willing to spoil.

And there is no guarantee that a promo version wont get bugs once 90% of the game get's cut out when things like traders rely on code that calls in several sectors worth of information.

Giving out the full version to a Twitch caster would just invite unwanted spoilers even with NDAs.

[Monkeyfister]

You guys are missing a point here.

They didn't or can't make a working promo version of the game. That takes time and resources. Might not even be possible because how X background simulations work, they'd have to make an entirely different game with the few assets they are willing to spoil.

And there is no guarantee that a promo version wont get bugs once 90% of the game get's cut out when things like traders rely on code that calls in several sectors worth of information.

Giving out the full version to a Twitch caster would just invite unwanted spoilers even with NDAs.

Not really valid. Doesn't need to be a special "Promo version."

Provide full game, but only allow Youtubers/Twitch players"x" amount of actual playtime like MANY/MOST other dev groups do. OR limit what they can and cannot show, like "you're allowed to show Trade, Combat, Capital Ship combat, how to cap a ship, and station building. Not allowed to show Plot Line action and this list of other things." This has all been done by others and it works just fine. It's how (both time limits and specific things to show) "Total War: Thrones Of Britannia" did their pre-release promotions.
Also-- I discovered BTF via a game disk that came with a video card purchase. It simply had a gametime timer on it. That is not difficult either, especially these days.

[csaba]

You guys are missing a point here.

They didn't or can't make a working promo version of the game. That takes time and resources. Might not even be possible because how X background simulations work, they'd have to make an entirely different game with the few assets they are willing to spoil.

And there is no guarantee that a promo version wont get bugs once 90% of the game get's cut out when things like traders rely on code that calls in several sectors worth of information.

Giving out the full version to a Twitch caster would just invite unwanted spoilers even with NDAs.

Not really valid. Doesn't need to be a special "Promo version."

Provide full game, but only allow Youtubers/Twitch players"x" amount of actual playtime like MANY/MOST other dev groups do. OR limit what they can and cannot show, like "you're allowed to show Trade, Combat, Capital Ship combat, how to cap a ship, and station building. Not allowed to show Plot Line action and this list of other things." This has all been done by others and it works just fine. It's how (both time limits and specific things to show) "Total War: Thrones Of Britannia" did their pre-release promotions.
Also-- I discovered BTF via a game disk that came with a video card purchase. It simply had a gametime timer on it. That is not difficult either, especially these days.

How do you manage that with ships able to randomly show up on your screen?

"Please don't show this ship."

"Okay."

"Whoops it just boosted into my view on live cam. Are you going to sue me now?"

Total war is as far from X games as chess is from tennis.
There the AI is much more limited to location and ingame date, you can lock certain regions without disturbing the ones in the promo etc.
Here you can randomly bump into the PHQ as far as we know.

[ezra-r]

I'm with the "sounds fishy" opinions, no pre-reviews sounds like grab money and run/patch for months. Just praying X4 is not another Rebirth mountain climbing. Are there any opinions from devs saying they are enjoying playing their own game?

[conquestor]

Im surprised the 9 curators who left BS reviews of the game are still there, Egosoft should have those removed.

Do you really think that developers are in a position to have reviews of their games removed?

Yes actually, if they're fraudulent. Email Tom Giardino at valve with the details.

[peschinl]

people complaining about no review copies clearly never worked on a game at a indie dev (wich egosoft is). You dont have the luxury of sending out preview copies since they need a seperate releasebranch. You cant simply send out a work in progress, unless you want bad reviews from the start and unless you have a early access version (wich egosoft never did).

there werent early review copies for x1 till xr and they not going to change now.

[Seon]

Isn't it up to Deep Silver if Egosoft can even do pre-release stuff? I've seen the comments from CBJ in another thread about a boxed version, how they were in talks with Deep Silver about it and couldn't confirm or deny until the talks were finished. Wouldn't the same thing apply here? There are people out there under NDA for the beta versions (which is where all the screenshots we've been seeing come from), so they have no problem it seems with giving out some early versions of the game.

I feel like pre-release reviews might all come down to Deep Silver potentially keeping it from happening. (unless Deep Silver is no longer the publisher and I missed out on this, but it sounds like they might still be)

This is the post I'm referring to with the boxed version:

Just a quick update for those who had been asking about a boxed version of the game: discussions with publishers have now concluded and, there will not be a boxed version of X4: Foundations in the foreseeable future.

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

Isn't it up to Deep Silver if Egosoft can even do pre-release stuff? I've seen the comments from CBJ in another thread about a boxed version, how they were in talks with Deep Silver about it and couldn't confirm or deny until the talks were finished. Wouldn't the same thing apply here? There are people out there under NDA for the beta versions (which is where all the screenshots we've been seeing come from), so they have no problem it seems with giving out some early versions of the game.

I feel like pre-release reviews might all come down to Deep Silver potentially keeping it from happening. (unless Deep Silver is no longer the publisher and I missed out on this, but it sounds like they might still be)

This is the post I'm referring to with the boxed version:

Just a quick update for those who had been asking about a boxed version of the game: discussions with publishers have now concluded and, there will not be a boxed version of X4: Foundations in the foreseeable future.

They’re self-publishing. The lack of a boxed version only means that Deep Silver aren’t involved in any way.

[AC_Black]

I'm not on a fence with the no show off vids on the game, I am stuck in a gate because I entered it the wrong way I really look at it this way, IF they don't show off the game some people will take the "wait and see" attitude. Others may find it exciting to not really know what to expect. BUT we have a lot of video footage of the game, what we can do, what we can expect and what we can fly. The only thing we do not have is what the game will look like NOW as we have only seen the Daily Pics that they have put up for us to look at and drool over or guessing what they are showing off and very good ones too. I have the game waiting to download on the 30th, (fingers crossed maybe sooner for those that did pre order) We will all see then. I am going to enjoy it or wait for the patches to fix it. Have enjoyed every X game so far, with XR I went back to AP until they got it patched up so again no lost enjoyment. Yes it did make me upset for the first week or so, but I can now say XR is playable Mods have made it better.... 6 Days to wait, another 7 to 10 for a good video review... Anything less then 6 days and (for me ) I don't think they have not got enough time for a good review. Again just me..

[sil3nt_87]

I'm totally fine with waiting, all you people like me that aren't old supporters (supporters meaning that they will buy the game anyway) should not let the hype take over you, and just wait for the others to take the first steps in.

I never played any previous X games, Rebirth was the first title i pre-ordered, and we all know how it went. Still, even with the big issues it had i managed to play almost 1000 hours, steam tooltip, as a prouf that Egosoft can make some good quality games. But, i don't intend to fall again into the "disaster release" trap.

I'll wait and see, and if the game deserves it i will be more than happy to purchase it. And frankly i really hope it will, i would love to travel againg here and there in the universe just like the Enterprise!

Now i also have a pc that could handle the game pretty well at full-hd, i got i7 8700k and gtx 1060 6gb, on top of ssds and lots of ram. Should be plenty for 1080p, i remember that my old Amd system couldn't handle Rebirth very well (it did very bad actually)

[Falcrack]

I might preorder for the small discount, but hold off on actually playing (or playing more than 2 hours) so that I can qualify for a steam refund if it looks like egosoft were trying to hide a steaming pile of crap.

[Alci]

And remember: If you buy a brand new car, don't judge it for having no motor (or one that does not run correctly), because that can be fixed...

well, if car is all you have... once you start building a house you will learn the most costs goes for the bare walls, roof and infrastructure and have to be paid before you can live in the house. Doesn't mean base building is garbage or not buying

[Aquitaine]

This is how it was prior to Rebirth -- very little actual gameplay, no reviews.

I don't doubt that X4 will be a superior product on release, but it seems like a missed opportunity to repair some credibility that was burned in Rebirth's review scores. If things are that much improved then probably reviewers will want to know about it.

"We can't do that, we're spending every waking minute on finishing the game" -- that may well be, but the market doesn't tolerate that like it used to. Egosoft isn't the only show in town in this niche anymore.

[peschinl]

Egosoft isn't the only show in town in this niche anymore.

actually it is.

[StoneLegionYT]

Where are they they?? Games out in a week !!

Exactly games out in a week mate not right now. What is the issue your having troubles following, Maybe I can assist?

[StoneLegionYT]

This is how it was prior to Rebirth -- very little actual gameplay, no reviews.

I don't doubt that X4 will be a superior product on release, but it seems like a missed opportunity to repair some credibility that was burned in Rebirth's review scores. If things are that much improved then probably reviewers will want to know about it.

"We can't do that, we're spending every waking minute on finishing the game" -- that may well be, but the market doesn't tolerate that like it used to. Egosoft isn't the only show in town in this niche anymore.

X-Rebirth right now is actually quite decent. X4 is the same engine with lots of upgrades / updates, etc. I talked to the devs on Discord working hard finding bugs and fixing them daily. In my books the devs seem more ahead of things then they ever had been.

This is also the third iteration of this engine.

Rather then judging them ahead of time why not wait a few days after release and then consider it then?

[MrMikey]

I'm totally fine with waiting, all you people like me that aren't old supporters (supporters meaning that they will buy the game anyway) should not let the hype take over you, and just wait for the others to take the first steps in.

I'm an old timer with Egosoft (heck even had some of their Amiga games) but really started to like their products after X Beyond the frontier. Am i worried about this game? Short term perhaps but in the long term no - And why is that, well Egosoft do very complex games like this and they ain't built in a day and with limited resources (niche grene, highly complex games... do the math on dev hrs) they do pretty darn well. Sure some of their games have been somewhat rocky at start but they always been good in the end so they earned my confidence enough to take that plunge - So until they give me a reason to change my stance i will pre order since they have in the end always provided unlike many others (And i'm selective as hell when it comes to pre-orders, only a couple of dev teams enjoy that hard earned trust)

[Tharrg]

As long as you expect a buggy beta release with a lot of potential; that you can play to get a flavour; you won't be disappointed

That is what I expected from XR and got what I expected, X4 will likely be the same. I'll be preordering it with that expectation anyway.