X4 meaningful crafting (ideas) ?

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

My, my you really do have a problem with crafting.

I am just giving an example of what I consider crafting in a modern context.

I see crafting as the tweaking of existing hardware and software to produce new and unique things that could then be applied to my existing infrastructure.

This could be weapons, shields and engines. I don't expect to have a win, win result just something that then adds variety and choice to what I currently have available.

Personally I don't really want to produce 10 bear arse novelty lamp shades that are voice activated. Well certainly not for 50 million credits.

[Killjaeden]

My, my you really do have a problem with crafting.

Indeed, for the many reasons mentioned.

I see crafting as the tweaking of existing hardware and software to produce new and unique things that could then be applied to my existing infrastructure.

As the process of tweaking itself is pretty much impossible to do in a game (unless they build a game within a game, which they just couldn't properly pull of with just ~20 people without sacrifising something else) - you are just receiving new things from an action of clicking. But the reason for receiving new things could be many other things that are not "craft lump of iron, silicone and copper into fusionreactor Mk2b in the cargo room of your M3".

just something that then adds variety and choice to what I currently have available.

Aha, now we are at the bottom of it. I too want variety. But there are way other ways to achieve this, ways that integrate better into the world itself.

I grant that crafting/research to improve a ship or weapon in rebirth is more justifiable than X3, because you are forced to use the same stinky bucket to fly around. But in X4 we have free ship choice and the ships are modular, allowing a high level of variety right of the bat.

[Nikola515]

@Killjaeden

We already know that crafting will be in the game so might as well make it useful in the game.... I also know that all stations are automatic crafting machines But knowing that crafting is going to be in game I'm trying to figure out what would be best way of implementing it in game. At the same time I wouldn't want to force player of using it. I would like to see something similar to Skyrim or Fallout... You can craft items or you can just buy it and totally ignore crafting

This way people like you can ignore crafting and someone that likes it they can enjoy

@Alan Phipps

I love that satellite idea This would have saved me so much time in X3

@DaMuncha

X3 (mass drivers or ion weapons) and even XR already have those in the game. So status weapons is nothing new to X games

Edit:

Will crafting be a part of the game?
Yes, crafting will be included in X4 and will even be extended.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

See, the OP just wanted to get something that already exists improved.

If the word crafting is the problem, then why not change the name...

The Invention Suite, Spark Laboratory, Construction Complex, Design Area, Formulation Fabrication Plant or maybe Modifications Module.

I already have a room that exists in XR stations as a very good starting point for my Spark Laboratory. All it needs are some interactions with the computers and machinery in the room and voila a game within a game.

Then you have to use a perjorative.

you are forced to use the same stinky bucket to fly around

I liked the Skunk.
First ship that I could move around in, in an X game. First ship that I could walk around on a landing platform and appreciate its actual size and scale. Not the prettiest of ships I'll grant you, but with a certain rough charm.

So I would like to see crafting broadened out a bit so that I can make mods in my modding module (see what I did there) that apply to more areas of ship technology. That can then be applied to more than one ship.

Potentially we could produce mods that alter the characteristics of station production.

[adeine]

Except X games aren't meant to be the kind of games where you're some unique genius, who through bashing together some raw materials MacGyvers an 'upgrade' that is superior or equal to solutions on the competitive galactic market using actual assembly lines. And if instead of 'tuning' you're building from scratch, how would you even begin to do this unless you had a mobile factory in your ship?

The word crafting isn't the problem, it's just an idea that detracts from, rather than adds to the formula that makes the X games what they are. I have similar concerns with adding more things to 'research' beyond just reverse engineering. What are we supposed to think? That the established powers of the Commonwealth are incompetent or never bothered investing in technology so that a random upstart can easily come up with superior technology in a short time span, just by clicking a button and throwing some resources at the problem?

I don't see the gameplay appeal either. As has been said, research kind of sounds like implementing a Civilization-style tech tree to the game, which boils down to: click on research item, have gadget or resources and wait. Which is okay for reverse engineering since you would presumably have to acquire the ship/ware through gameplay first, and then have your people disassemble it to figure out how to replicate it. But to unlock already available tech? Why would you need to 'research' a piece of equipment others can buy on the free market? Why would you be able to vastly improve on it when we're supposed to believe this is cutting edge, state of the art technology?

Isn't it more fun to unlock and find things through, y'know, actual gameplay? As in, building your factory complex to automate making a certain ware. Or capping a Xenon vessel to reverse engineer it. Or finding a secret research station that carries that rare laser weapon/ware/upgrade for your ship through exploration. And then perhaps, optionally, reverse engineering it for blueprints you are able to plug into your own production line.

People are already complaining about the complexity of upgrading ships with existing wares. What would you do about that if you can effectively supertune ships via some crafting minigame? Would you have to manually 'craft' upgrade all your ships to be efficient? That doesn't sound incredibly appealing.

You run into similar problems with consumables. Why would they not be available premade if they have value and can make a profit in the economy? And if they are situational, like shield or hull repair, or 'status effects' for weapons (which is kind of silly in a space game to begin with, no offence), you've just turned X4 into some weird MMO style clickfest whereby the outcome of battles is determined through how many healing potions or 'buffs' you have on your hotbar. And to even begin to balance this sort of thing, you'd have to allow AI to do so as well since you're already at an advantage as the human player, so have fun grinding down that infinitely healing capship. Again, this isn't what the X games are about?

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Really? I had no idea that there was some rigid formula somewhere that states exactly what constitutes an X game.

Here was I thinking the X games are the intellectual property of Egosoft.
Therefore it was up to them to decide what constitutes an X game.

You don't have to be a genius to make new inventions and discoveries.
History is littered with people who have advanced science and technology without having the backing of massive corporations.

[Killjaeden]

Here was I thinking the X games are the intellectual property of Egosoft. Therefore it was up to them to decide what constitutes an X game.

Just because they could doesn't mean they should... add pink elephants and a golf minigame to X.

All it needs are some interactions with the computers and machinery in the room and voila a game within a game.

"All it needs" - yes, all it needs is many hours of work and tweaking, not only in terms of code but also for assets like animations, GUI and models to realize that. If they dont want another launch disaster ala Rebirth they will have to focus on what contributes to the core gameplay.
Crafting was added in Rebirth. Yes. And so where the "fun" small talk and scanning 'minigames'...

You don't have to be a genius to make new inventions and discoveries. History is littered with people who have advanced science and technology without having the backing of massive corporations.

history is a period of many years... And in recent past the only cases of "ordinary bob" making a new invention were in consumer products - not in industrial products.

[Tomonor]

Craft a limited number of jumpgates that will connect with unknown sectors?

Ugh.

[linolafett]

add pink elephants and a golf minigame to X.

Good idea, will ask Peter to get this sheduled!

[adeine]

Really? I had no idea that there was some rigid formula somewhere that states exactly what constitutes an X game.

Here was I thinking the X games are the intellectual property of Egosoft.
Therefore it was up to them to decide what constitutes an X game.

X4. CRAFT, HEAL, AGGRO, TANK

ohwait.

Of course they can (and will) make whatever game they want, ultimately. They're saying they want to make a game that people were looking for as a true successor to X3. To do right by people who were disappointed by Rebirth not feeling like a true X game sequel. I don't think telling people who like the original trilogy voicing their concerns or giving feedback on things that depart from it that their opinions are irrelevant is the best approach. Not saying this is what they have done, but it seems to be what you're suggesting.

[Killjaeden]

Good idea, will ask Peter to get this sheduled!

Excellent. My secret plan worked. Space Golf is all i wanted.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Fairly Recent inventions by a single person.

WORLDWIDE WEB

Invented: 1989
Inventor: Tim Berners-Lee

HIP REPLACEMENT

Invented: 1962
Inventor: John Charnley

ELECTRONIC PROGRAMMABLE COMPUTER

Invented: 1943
Inventor: Tommy Flowers

TELEVISION

Invented: 1925
Inventor: John Logie Baird

STAINLESS STEEL

Invented: 1913
Inventor: Harry Brearley

[JSDD]

Good idea, will ask Peter to get this sheduled!

Excellent. My secret plan worked. Space Golf is all i wanted.

why not adding a packman/bomberman/snake3D tounament as steam achievements, the best player will get a cool ship as reward (thats not a joke! maybe this can be scripted ...)

[Killjaeden]

STAINLESS STEEL

Invented: 1913
Inventor: Harry Brearley

in 1912, Harry Brearley of the Brown-Firth research laboratory in Sheffield, England

The Brown-Firth research laboratory was founded by two Metallurgy companies John Brown & Company, and Thomas Firth & Sons. Brearley was leader of the institute. And not some random guy in his garage. It is result of a collaborative scientific efford. It's attributed to him because he is boss. How much if it is directly his work and how much of that is from his subordinates is unclear...

Please name me one groundbreaking invention of 2000 that had to do with metallurgy and was not result of leading scientists collaborating and researching in their very specific fields of knowledge?
You will have trouble finding anything, because metallurgy has matured and any further progress will take exponentially more experience and work in research.

Electronics started later than metallurgy, but it now too has matured. The propability of random garage guy discovering something new is practically nill. IT is where innovation in industrial use is still more likely by garage guy, but the propability of that is shrinking at increasing rate.

[Nikola515]

I think people assume that crafting will be same as station production. I'm pretty sure that this is not the case and it will probably be based on player items(not cargo items). I wouldn't like idea of making fusion reactors from dirt with hammer

Also I would love to see micro crafting and than transition to macro crafting. Here is how I would do it.... I get plasma cannon MK 2 and i take it to my workshop in HQ to check what i can do with it. I tinker with it and increase speed of projectile and range but i had to sacrifice rate of fire. I like that weapon so i want it get it for mass production and equip all of my ships. I save blueprint and tell my manager to build those weapons and NPC's can buy them and equip their ships if they want.

[Skeeter]

So customisation kinda like car stuff in NFS underground 2?

[Sahvion]

Adding in crafting elements should be something that falls in line with the game's lore, it'd make no sense for the player themselves to craft the items (with one exception: being able to repair your own ship, as it would make sense for a pilot to have at least some basic knowledge on how to fix their ship)

To that end I think being able to expand upon the building elements of the game (which, FYI, are synonymous with crafting) isn't a bad thing and should be done. Being able to build actual ships, weaponry, components, systems and equipment. Even going so far as being able to build the actual station modules themselves, instead of having to buy them from NPCs.

[Nikola515]

So customisation kinda like car stuff in NFS underground 2?

Something like that. If I want to improve something there is also coast on other things (like double edged sword).... At same time I want something that is not OP for player but it also helps make things easy/convenient . For example modify sensors to show cargo on map. In XR we had to inspect every wreck of ship visually to see if there is any cargo in it. Adding status effect would give 10% ion damage to weapons for short period of time. This will not be powerful as real ion weapon it will get the job done. I just hated how bad it sucked in X3 switching weapons in middle of fight all the time (especially when boarding and trying to keep shields down and not get my marines blown up). This would be more convenient way of switching weapons without actually doing it.

[adeine]

expand upon the building elements of the game (which, FYI, are synonymous with crafting)

This is how it should be, but unfortunately not what people are talking about when they say crafting in this thread.

Other than that, I completely agree. The player should theoretically be able to produce every single ware or object in the game if it can be produced. If the economy in X4 (as promised) runs without magical intervention the systems can and should allow a player to build a self sustainable faction. Getting there might be extremely tricky and not very practical, but it would make for a neat endgame goal and challenge.

[Santi]

Also I would love to see micro crafting and than transition to macro crafting. Here is how I would do it.... I get plasma cannon MK 2 and i take it to my workshop in HQ to check what i can do with it. I tinker with it and increase speed of projectile and range but i had to sacrifice rate of fire. I like that weapon so i want it get it for mass production and equip all of my ships. I save blueprint and tell my manager to build those weapons and NPC's can buy them and equip their ships if they want.

I like this, it is taking the really good weapon mod system from X Rebirth further and instead of relying on chance, it is fully integrated into the game and can be applied as a global setting.