get we ever more ships to fly again

[pref]

All i need is a Panther with a Kestrel in the docking bay.

Im guessing if there was a vote, Hyperion would win eventually
Even its name is hyped.

[mike2k4u]

im not a programmer of some sort but we already have in game some type of camera view of the ship we docked in (i think its F2) how about implementing the ui (like the speed weps etc)
and talking to the captain of taking control over the ship hes flying so hes just on some sort of standby mode
again im not a programmer and dont know much about it
hope it helps someone in someway

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@Graaf: If they had to give us ONE ship it had to be combat capable given the nature of a game like X and based on the fact that the vast majority of both veteran and new players would probably want to engage in combat at some point. Egosoft do not have unlimited resources and the one ship restriction was a necessary implementation decision for the first iteration of the new game engine based on what I have seen.

As for making the customisations of the Skunk more diverse for X-Rebirth, I am 100% on board with that but we need to be realistic with our expectations.

If Egosoft are opening up the modding capability to make implementing multiple player ships feasible via modding then it may be that paid for DLC (not free due to the expected amount of work involved) could offer additional player pilotable ships to X-Rebirth. Based on the amount of work involved (from what Egosoft personnel have said in these forums in this area) I believe it is not reasonable to expect them free.

[BigBANGtheory]

Well I don't know about you folks but in X3, once I got the cash, I only flew around in my Vidar or my Angel.

Xenon LX and Hyperion Vanguard were my choices I rarely switched into other ships. What I did do though is build a fleet of ships with one carrier (fully loaded with fighters), three destroyers and various support vessels e.g. missile frigates. Couldn't command them properly in X3 still can't in XR

[Graaf]

If they had to give us ONE ship it had to be combat capable given the nature of a game like X ...

As a trader in X3 I can play just fine without even touching an M-class ship. And some of the transports do have teeth.

...the one ship restriction was a necessary implementation decision for the first iteration of the new game engine based on what I have seen.

From my point of view the 1 ship restriction was not necessary, just maybe more convenient. But the restriction is restricting further development for multiple pilotable ships and game mechanics because in the aforementioned convenience they forgot to implement those additional gameplay mechanics. The only ships currently available for implementation are combat ships, which is not helping my case. (And in case of a fighter, Yisha can be the RIO.)

If Egosoft are opening up the modding capability to make implementing multiple player ships feasible via modding then it may be that paid for DLC (not free due to the expected amount of work involved) could offer additional player pilotable ships to X-Rebirth. Based on the amount of work involved (from what Egosoft personnel have said in these forums in this area) I believe it is not reasonable to expect them free.

Two questions then:
1) Will I be paying Egosoft for player-made ships (paying the wrong persons)?
2) Why would I pay extra for something what I consider a basic part of the X-formula?

As for making the customisations of the Skunk more diverse for X-Rebirth, I am 100% on board with that but we need to be realistic with our expectations.

Adding more ship through modding or adding more customization options to the Skunk are only useful if there are also going to be changes in gameplay mechanics. No use in upgrading to a transport if I can't trade with stations.

[Nanook]

....

...the one ship restriction was a necessary implementation decision for the first iteration of the new game engine based on what I have seen.

From my point of view the 1 ship restriction was not necessary, just maybe more convenient. But the restriction is restricting further development for multiple pilotable ships and game mechanics because in the aforementioned convenience they forgot to implement those additional gameplay mechanics. The only ships currently available for implementation are combat ships, which is not helping my case. (And in case of a fighter, Yisha can be the RIO.)...

No, I think Roger is right. But the reason he's right is sad. The one ship was necessary simply because of the plot. It's hard to implement Yisha and all the plot restrictions if you have more than one ship. Personally, I think the biggest mistake in Rebirth was putting the plot front and center, as it were. Of course, they could've created a plot that wasn't so ship, and co-pilot centric, but that's not what they chose to do. They tried to marry an adventure game format with a space trading/combat simulation, and it just put too many obstacles in the way of the simulation part, the one-ship thing being the most obvious. You'd think they would've learned from all the criticism they got about the X2 and X3 Reunion plots, which were similar in nature.

P.S. Personally, I'd love to kick Yisha out the airlock without a helmet, as well as all those other long-winded, uninterruptible NPC's that interfere with MY operation of MY ships.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

P.S. Personally, I'd love to kick Yisha out the airlock without a helmet, as well as all those other long-winded, uninterruptible NPC's that interfere with MY operation of MY ships.

Quick tip for our sanity, which I think works in vanilla, and which I shall now start calling the "Shut up, everyone!" manoeuvre

1. Try to be in space for long-winded dialogs (e.g. multiple assignments).
2. While in space, make sure you can see at least 1 selectable object.
3. Start convo as normal via space, map or property list.
4. Issue order, such as "Assign new superior".
5. As soon as you hear the first word of their reply, double-click on an object.
6. Pop-up context menu appears and previous dude/dudette shuts up

[Nanook]

Thanks. I'll have to give that a try tonight when I get home.

[pref]

Iirc pressing 'T' with default binds also works in space. No need to have a target in range.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Iirc pressing 'T' with default binds also works in space. No need to have a target in range.

Just checked...it does too! "Yay!" for bugs

[pref]

Just checked...it does too! "Yay!" for bugs

yay!

Pity it closes the active window as well. Still need to reopen map or property list..

I wonder if ES is really that stubborn to punish us with these conversations because of a design decision or whatever - or it's that complicated to code skip option for these..?
It's been 1.5 years, and so many complaints.

[Snafu_X3]

Quick query: does this method simply mute the audio or does it skip the whole interminable conversation entirely (allowing free action)? If the latter then this is a bug I /won't/ be reporting

[Ormac]

If Egosoft ever does allow us to fly ships other then the Skunk they could add an offical side quest (that is short) that would be triggered after the plot is complete (plot restricted by ship [Skunk]) where a few other pilotable ships are offered. The side-quest would be available in free play modes.

Inital difficulty with adding the new ships would be transferring Ren and or Yisha over (Station only or airlock). Assume Betty flies the Skunk to your nearest station.

-- Ormac

[Nanook]

In post-plot and free play mode, Yisha is worse than worthless. She can stay with the old Skunk, as far as I'm concerned. I'll give it to her for nothing. And then I'll blast her and it into the next galaxy with my new ride.

[Lander1979]

The Radio Silence mod on Steam is good for stopping the long-winded co-pilot and NPC interactions.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Quick query: does this method simply mute the audio or does it skip the whole interminable conversation entirely (allowing free action)? If the latter then this is a bug I /won't/ be reporting

The latter

[Graaf]

....

...the one ship restriction was a necessary implementation decision for the first iteration of the new game engine based on what I have seen.

From my point of view the 1 ship restriction was not necessary, just maybe more convenient. But the restriction is restricting further development for multiple pilotable ships and game mechanics because in the aforementioned convenience they forgot to implement those additional gameplay mechanics. The only ships currently available for implementation are combat ships, which is not helping my case. (And in case of a fighter, Yisha can be the RIO.)...

No, I think Roger is right. But the reason he's right is sad. The one ship was necessary simply because of the plot. It's hard to implement Yisha and all the plot restrictions if you have more than one ship. Personally, I think the biggest mistake in Rebirth was putting the plot front and center, as it were. Of course, they could've created a plot that wasn't so ship, and co-pilot centric, but that's not what they chose to do. They tried to marry an adventure game format with a space trading/combat simulation, and it just put too many obstacles in the way of the simulation part, the one-ship thing being the most obvious. You'd think they would've learned from all the criticism they got about the X2 and X3 Reunion plots, which were similar in nature.

If it's just because of the plot, then why not lift the restriction after finishing the plot?
Why have it in place at all when in free-mode?
Why is it hard to have Yisha sit in another ship? Even fighters can be 2-seaters.

The issue I see with Rebirth is that the game isn't designed around the player, but around the Skunk. And every game mechanics is based on that. Unfortunately some of those mechanics along with the 1-ship restriction are holding back Rebirth's potential.

[GCU Grey Area]

If it's just because of the plot, then why not lift the restriction after finishing the plot?
Why have it in place at all when in free-mode?
Why is it hard to have Yisha sit in another ship? Even fighters can be 2-seaters.

The issue I see with Rebirth is that the game isn't designed around the player, but around the Skunk. And every game mechanics is based on that. Unfortunately some of those mechanics along with the 1-ship restriction are holding back Rebirth's potential.

I doubt it was because of the plot. Think it's much more likely to have been to keep the project at a manageable scale. Even then the game had serious issues on release. Dread to think what the release state would have been like if they'd tried to incorporate multiple flyable ships as well.

[Slashman]

I doubt it was because of the plot. Think it's much more likely to have been to keep the project at a manageable scale. Even then the game had serious issues on release. Dread to think what the release state would have been like if they'd tried to incorporate multiple flyable ships as well.

If they had actually managed their project properly and staffed it appropriately, the release would have been fine with multiple player ships.

I tend to agree with Nanook. I remember before release when I raised concerns about focusing on the plot and several people tried to convince me, and themselves, that the plot would be wonderful and well worth it. Along with a highly upgradeable and customizable Skunk.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Every game is designed around a given perceived group of players, what they had to do with X-Rebirth was make some compromises in order to ensure they covered the largest possible group while still keeping the project manageable. It does not matter what project you work on commercially, time to market becomes a very relevant factor and that sometimes means having to "deliberatly" delay some features to a future update (either free or otherwise). In addition, sometimes features have to be delayed due to technical issues that can not be resolved before planned delivery.

The single player ship restriction falls into the "deliberately" delayed category (Egosoft declared this limitation clearly prior to release and the published game description does not imply anything different), and the impression was that Egosoft hoped the upgradable ship would address the majority of the player ship variety concerns. Arguably, to a large extent it does.

The only use case really not "fully" supported by the Skunk's design is the trade ship jockey but arguably that has been mitigated to a degree by the way squad mechanics and trading work in X-Rebirth (that particular role may never come back in the exact form it was in the X-Trilogy games - sad perhaps but it may be something we all have to learn to accept in the long run).

Some players may not like (or not fully agree with) some of the compromises they made (e.g. the single ship restriction) or some of the changes to underlying mechanics (e.g. trading executed on a principle of planned order fulfilment rather than agreement on delivery) but ultimately what is done is done and cant be undone (the decisions were made and the product was produced as we saw it) so there is no point dwelling on it (from would of, could of, should of perspective).

With specific regard to the single player ship restriction, while sections of the modding community may be working on a solution (no guarantees anything will come of it) we have been led to believe that Egosoft only plan to formally address the issue in Vanilla with the next title (or perhaps a major paid for expansion - c/f X-Tension) due to the level of work involved.

While v3.50 Beta seems to open up the UI to easier and more extensive modding, I have not (yet) noted anything specific that may make implementing multiple player flyable ships more feasible than it is now.

@ Slashman: Unless you have insider knowledge (I certainly don't), you can't say that. We do not know the exact details of the technical or manpower issues they had that led them to make the single player ship restriction necessary, but based on what was delivered and the progress to date it seems obvious to me that they made the right choice (from a technical observer viewpoint). It would appear that they have managed the project properly since they appear to have considered and managed the risks involved with working on features that were not critical to the game delivery from their view point (some things even the best project plan can not mitigate though).