About our ongoing work - Patches, Updates, Bugfixing on X Rebirth

[Rastabob]

Bernd,

I have to start off by asking what the real intentions were for releasing this product in its current state? I mean really? This is no where near the competency we have seen in previous releases in the X Series.

The lack of in-depth game footage on the Egosoft website should have been a real warning. The few videos that were out there were obviously VERY scripted and edited due to the crashes and even in-game awkward controls.

I'm beginning to wonder was there actually an Alpha or Best test of this product? I can not believe there was because ANY former X player would have told you guys you were way off track.

Let me sum up my suspicions and offer the community an alternative thought line here.

Egosoft spent tons of resources and funding trying to develop a product with the intent of selling it to the console market. It saw it's opportunity to make money on the product waining and got desperate to grab what revenue they could by slapping a PC wrapper on the program and release it through Steam. The pre-order was a nice touch as you counted on the loyalty of the previous X series gamers.

A huge success? Not even a broke Crack addict could be that optimistic. I firmly believe the community are victims of electronic highway robbery. How about showing us the 'Success' by showing us the actual purchase revenue beyond the pre-orders. Certainly the word has gotten out by now and your sales should be diving faster than Obamacare popularity.

I have to hand it to you.....you suckered me in and got my money with no way to get it back. So enjoy the phat loot bro cause I bet the majority of the community here all think the same thing.

[Bernd]

How about a fix for ship repair not working at all?

You are talking engineer hired on the Skunk or on another ship or are you talking about repairing the skunk while docked?

If it is an engineer working on a capship for example he would need drones to do the repair.

Please send a mail with some details to info@egosoft.com

Thanks....

[EmperorJon]

Bernd doesn't seem to want to reply to us, which is making me legitimately worried. Yeah, ok, he's run the business for a long time and sure knows what to do better than me, but as a customer... I sure know how to recognise when something is totally below usual standard, as well as when other customers agree, and when the developer just doesn't seem to care anymore.
It seems they really did go for the new more-casual crowd, and then on to the next gen of consoles.

[Bernd]

I must once again state I feel we need some sort of comment regarding game design, whether you expected to alienate so many old fans, whether things will change in the future to accommodate more of the previous series style, whether this was always intended, whether it's not/was never intended, etc.

Comment on the fighter/trader commands/menus will be appreciated too.

The answer to this is complicated: Of course we do not intentionally alienate old fans. But X Rebirth is not X4 for a reason. I know many of you would have preferred a true X4 where we just take X3 and make it better, add more on top.

Actually you can believe me that I wished many times in the past 7 years we would have done just that. Not because I lost faith in the different design goals of X Rebirth, but because of the financial risk in developing this huge monster over 7 years.

Anyway... Of course we will also improve the AI and add more possibilities to control your ships. However the goal is to not achieve this with just adding more and more command options.

Once you add a ship to another captains command hierarchy for example, you have no direct control over that ship anymore. The player only interacts with the top level commanders and they should deal with the ones bellow. Maybe we will add more micro management options e.g allowing you to tell the captain how to group his subordinates into squads etc. but you will not have a long list of AI modes for every ship in every squad.

That being said, my long term goal for giving you more control also over fights would be a more strategic interface. One where you can plan a battle more than just instructing individual ships. But this is definitely one of the bigger tasks and not part of these immediate things we are now working on.

[Darlandra]

I guess what I'm curious about, is the logic on the design turn. Egosoft had a product that was doing well, you created one heck of a fan base for it, though I suppose you could say it was smaller than others..there are plenty I know who have never heard of the X3 for example.

But typically when companies see that a product is going right, they don't change the product dramatically. The refine it, removing flaws as they are found, and focusing on the desired features as they are praised. I think the modern day example would be the iphone/ipad...constant refinement.

But XRB...is not a refinement. Certainly not at first glance, nor second. A number of praised features are stripped out or dumbed down (large scale maps, radars, individual ship command) and focused on the casual game play with very...painful interfaces. remember hotkeys are not a bad thing...there is a reason we have a keyboard with 87+ keys on it...an interface is ok...but let US be the ones to decide if we want to skip it. I think the same applies to your station characters...let those who want to board board...but if we're in a hurry...let us stay in our ship. I ordered a pizza by phone just an hour ago...why cant i get some e-cells the same?

Finally..you say that X Rebirth is not X4. The problem is, you've utilized the X name and the X Creed...so why wouldn't it at least LOOK like an X game?

[Chizzler]

Bernd. I'll have whatever you're smoking if you think this game is a massive success. Take another look around the Steam Forums, These forums, Youtube, Metacritic, Twitter etc.


Sorry to be so brutal about the game you've all being tirelessly working on for so long but your game has been universally slammed everywhere! Not by professional reviewers (No reviews yet... why is that?), but by your customers and your fans. the only way you can consider this a success is purely in the number of sales you've achieved from pre-orders and Day 1 buys before reviews are out. I don't imagine you'll see the same faith in your next product.

I really hope you guys can see through the anger from customers as we all want the best for the game, and we'd hate to have a future without the 'X' Series. We know you'll do what you've always done and continue to support the game with updates...Hopefully, in time, it'll become the best 'X' game yet, but given the number of issues with fundamental design choices I'm not convinced you'll have the time or resources to make that happen.

[Ghost139]

has anyone ever thought that while it would have been safe to just make an X4, that Egosoft designers wanted to try something new, not build a cash cow like, oh iunno, the Sims?

I appreciate the effort to build a new space sim franchise, and while they say it is NOT X4, i feel it is in a way, the story moved forward, the galaxy is not the same anymore, your still in space, just a little different...

Thanks for all your work, i look forward to the patches that will hopefully come soon


Edit:

also, this was built from the ground up, not copy pasted... so there is a lot more involved, and they were also busy supplying us fans with more content in X3:AP...

i vote to stop ranting, constructive criticism is not the same thing, barely anyone has provided quality feed back, but those who have, have been noted for their ideas.

[zanetsu]

"nice talking to you - NOT!"

[EmperorJon]

I think this is where we must agree to disagree respectfully. In my eyes, the sheer fact that it is extremely similar to the previous X series makes it a natural X4, whether that is what you wish it to be or not. But I've already had this discussion with other people.

I am interested in seeing in which direction the game heads, but as of right now I am, shall we say, personally disinterested in the direction it has taken.
Whilst I agree subordinate command and hiring captains is a leap forwards, the fact they then have to act either under the management of a station or otherwise extremely closely under your own personal command sees extremely bizarre. In order to trade the player must repeatedly spend huge quantities of time hunting down docks and keeping stats up to date.

Anyway, that's enough of that, I shall go back to lurking. I'm just happy Bernd has acknowledged what's happening, and to a certain extend I'm happy he's happy with the outcome of the game being "positive".

I'd just like to state, after having been so unbelievably negative about X:R, exactly what my fears and worries were:

Many people were annoyed, angry, or fearful, because they'd spent money on a game they did not like or that wouldn't work properly.

I want not annoyed or angry or fearful about losing my money, but rather that I didn't like the game. I was annoyed because my favourite developer had made a game I thought I would love and I didn't. I was angry because everyone else started getting angry.
I was fearful because... for a moment, and maybe that moment has gone now, as your ratings plummeted and Steam erupted with bad news... I though Egosoft were doing to fail. I'll admit that last night I got almost no sleep, which I originally put down to my anger at the game being "below par" but I soon realised was actually me fearing for the future of a company that I thought made a huge mistake.
Maybe now you can see where I'm coming from. I hope there are no hard feelings.

I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavours, 'cos you deserve it for being brave and trying something new regardless of how many of us oldies don't like it. And maybe, one day, it'll be built up to a point where I can run my big empire like in old-X, and then I'll be happy. And I'll probably mod the hell out of it.


Until then, see you in Off Topic.

Good night, best of luck, I'll see you on the other side!

- EJ signing off.

[Matchimus]

They labelled it X to gain support from fans of the series.
They kept the lore to save time.
Looks like a money grab to me. It is pretty obvious they are hoping to port over to console gaming where the scores can REALLY change!

It's too bad Egosoft has turned this way, the same as so many other game franchises. I pre-ordred beacuse I thought Egosoft had integrity. I have now officially and completely lost faith in any sort of honesty or loyalty to fans. From any game devloping company.

If you read between the lines, Bernd does seem genuinely dissappointed in his own compnany. Thats never good.

also, this was built from the ground up, not copy pasted... so there is a lot more involved, and they were also busy supplying us fans with more content in X3:AP...

LMAO, you think it was Egosoft devs? WOW, it was modders and scripters that practically MADE X3TC and AP. Gimme a break.

[ReMake77]

Finally..you say that X Rebirth is not X4. The problem is, you've utilized the X name and the X Creed...so why wouldn't it at least LOOK like an X game?

Bernd said that already. That X Rebirth is not X4. Check out the Game Star Interview and Session on Youtube - was posted 1 month ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCfRw7lWVv4

Edit: Added Link to the Youtube Video.

[Mauzi!]

Much of the above said raises a new question:

If the plan is to automate almost everything while at the same time taking away most of the player control, where's the "think" part in the game ? I wouldn't call building a station from lego parts or using the various scanners to be much of the thinking.

But of course, maybe I just expect too much of "think" and should just take the alignment to console play as sign ? I am truly uncertain what to make of this.

[Ebyl Vampyre]

Personally, I don't have an issue with it not being X4. I'd love an X4, but I knew this was not going to be it. That's not my issue, nor do I think it's the issue with the game.

The problem (beyond the bugs and glitches) is that many features of the game are fundamentally flawed. Here are just a few, but for a larger list, one needs to only look through the forum, there is plenty of constructive criticism and suggestions.

The UI is simply awful. This is the interface between person and game, and if is clunky, unattractive, tedious, and so many other negative things, it's a constant detraction from the game.

The station interiors, and especially character models, are shocking. If you're going to force players to go into stations and interact with NPC's, and therefore make it a major part of the game, they had better be well designed. If they're not, which these are clearly not, it breaks immersion in a heartbeat, which a game like Rebirth thrives on.

Speaking of station interiors, it's ridiculous to force players to even go into them. It's tedious, cumbersome, and completely unnecessary. A space simulation doesn't need that, but if it's going to have it, it had better be well done. Yours is not anywhere close to well done.

Space simulations do not benefit from minigames either. If you're going to build a game that's about space exploration, trading, and combat, you don't need minigames, at least not involving things you're doing on a regular basis. The best example here is lane switching in the highways. Please, just get rid of that, it's terrible and pointless, not to mention immersion breaking as you ram your nose up the ass of the ship in front of you (which, btw, looks horrible in terms of graphical detail, as do most of the "ghost" ships).

Have a real map that actually provides useful information. Rebirth has just about the worst map I've ever seen put into a modern game. Give us a full screen, three dimensional map with proper, miniature representations of what is in the area. Something we can drag about to rotate and turn to gain different perspectives on what's around us.

I could go on and on, as I said. These aren't bugs, these are terrible design decisions that are implemented poorly. Most of them need to be completely ripped out and the system revamped. That's what it is going to take to make this a good game. Not a good "X series" game, just a good game. You're a very, very long way from it now.

In my decades of gaming, this is quite honestly the first game I'd ever take a refund on. It's that poorly designed. And that is why your game is not a success in anything but the money it earned you - and, unless you can right this ship with serious work, I think you're going to find that money will be short lived as the fans that have supported your studio for so long leave in droves.

Bug fixes will not even come close to cutting it.

[DaMuncha]

Ya know Bernd, you could allways go the humble route, you allready knew how we would react to your game, you knew it had this many problems, and still you released it. Its your own fault things have turned out this way, and then you defend your mistakes saying that this was intentional. Well thats not good enough. The success of your company rides on this game being a success, and for the first few days you have failed, and you know why.

What we all want to hear (read) you say is "I'm sorry the game was released in this state and we will do our best to satisfy our customers, while it will take some time (7 years should have been long enough to do this) we will do our best to improve the game based on your feedback" and then actually read what we are saying and improve aspects of the game we are complaining about.

[Varek Raith]

Wow, glad I held off on buying. No amount of bug fixing will fix this.
Too many fundamental design flaws.

[BlackRain]

Personally, I don't have an issue with it not being X4. I'd love an X4, but I knew this was not going to be it. That's not my issue, nor do I think it's the issue with the game.

The problem (beyond the bugs and glitches) is that many features of the game are fundamentally flawed. Here are just a few, but for a larger list, one needs to only look through the forum, there is plenty of constructive criticism and suggestions.

The UI is simply awful. This is the interface between person and game, and if is clunky, unattractive, tedious, and so many other negative things, it's a constant detraction from the game.

The station interiors, and especially character models, are shocking. If you're going to force players to go into stations and interact with NPC's, and therefore make it a major part of the game, they had better be well designed. If they're not, which these are clearly not, it breaks immersion in a heartbeat, which a game like Rebirth thrives on.

Speaking of station interiors, it's ridiculous to force players to even go into them. It's tedious, cumbersome, and completely unnecessary. A space simulation doesn't need that, but if it's going to have it, it had better be well done. Yours is not anywhere close to well done.

Space simulations do not benefit from minigames either. If you're going to build a game that's about space exploration, trading, and combat, you don't need minigames, at least not involving things you're doing on a regular basis. The best example here is lane switching in the highways. Please, just get rid of that, it's terrible and pointless, not to mention immersion breaking as you ram your nose up the ass of the ship in front of you (which, btw, looks horrible in terms of graphical detail, as do most of the "ghost" ships).

Have a real map that actually provides useful information. Rebirth has just about the worst map I've ever seen put into a modern game. Give us a full screen, three dimensional map with proper, miniature representations of what is in the area. Something we can drag about to rotate and turn to gain different perspectives on what's around us.

I could go on and on, as I said. These aren't bugs, these are terrible design decisions that are implemented poorly. Most of them need to be completely ripped out and the system revamped. That's what it is going to take to make this a good game. Not a good "X series" game, just a good game. You're a very, very long way from it now.

In my decades of gaming, this is quite honestly the first game I'd ever take a refund on. It's that poorly designed. And that is why your game is not a success in anything but the money it earned you - and, unless you can right this ship with serious work, I think you're going to find that money will be short lived as the fans that have supported your studio for so long leave in droves.

Bug fixes will not even come close to cutting it.

Sorry but I disagree with most of what you are saying. Highways are fine, UI isnt that bad, just needs more information and more commands and such.

Bunch of Drama Queens in my opinion. Also, you shouldn't assume people don't like the game. There are a lot of loud voices here and on steam but thousands of people bought the game, I don't see thousands of different people complaining, just a few dozen of the same people complaining. Not saying that it isn't representative of the whole, but you can't say it is either.

[Playbahnosh]

Actually you can believe me that I wished many times in the past 7 years we would have done just that. Not because I lost faith in the different design goals of X Rebirth, but because of the financial risk in developing this huge monster over 7 years.

So why did you do this then? You are the friggin CEO, people do what you tell them to! Instead of scrapping this stupid design back then, taking the hit and going for the X4 route, you now face the biggest backlash and fan rage in X history. Was it worth it?

You obviously anticipated how this "nu-X" will go down with fans and veterans, the very people who kept this series going for so many years by sheer love for the X franchise. YOU KNEW! Why, I ask, did you just completely ignore our reaction when you presented the feaures for Rebirth back two years ago? I mean, so many of us were outright against most of the stupid gimmicks and the taking away of features we all grown to love along the years! It was blatantly obvious you will alienate the vast majority of your fanbase with this, and yet you kept going. WHY?!

You yourself said just now, that this new design was the more financially risky one, and had the added danger of losing most of your community you were getting along so well with for the better part of a decade! I know a 7 year game project would've cost a lot, and you needed to get back that investment with sales, and the easiest way to do that is to go with lowest common denominator, to "appeal to a broader audience", hence the FPS gimmick, the minigames and taking away most of the control from the player to make Rebirth a theme park ride, because better or for worse, that's what sells nowadays. But you actually managed to alienate both crowds. Sure, sales are stellar because those who never played an X title before were dazzled by the flashy trailers and the feature list, and X veterans were just buying it mostly automatically, expecting a continuation of the series they all loved for so long. But what we got is a bug ridden, unplayable mess with horrible controls, gamepad interface, fugly characters and animation, blatantly unoptimized engine and a painful lack of all the features we loved in X so far.

So I ask: Was it worth it?

[Ebyl Vampyre]

Watch the sales tank as word gets out and you'll see it's not a minority of people who think the game is terrible. You can't extrapolate anything from preorder and first day sales other than it had a lot of hype/expectation. When it doesn't live up to that, which is most certainly isn't, the sales after tank like nobody's business. And that's what is going to happen.

The responses to this game are overwhelmingly negative, and for good reason, no matter where you look. Nothing is going to change that, it's simple a terribly designed game.

[g04tn4d0]

I believe in you, EgoSoft! <3

[BlackRain]

Watch the sales tank as word gets out and you'll see it's not a minority of people who think the game is terrible. You can't extrapolate anything from preorder and first day sales other than it had a lot of hype/expectation. When it doesn't live up to that, which is most certainly isn't, the sales after tank like nobody's business. And that's what is going to happen.

The responses to this game are overwhelmingly negative, and for good reason, no matter where you look. Nothing is going to change that, it's simple a terribly designed game.

Again you are making assumptions which you know nothing about. You have no idea that sales will tank, at all. You also have no idea if there are much more further sales to be made given the niche market and the fact that egosoft isn't a big name. You also have no idea what will happen once Egosoft fixes the bugs (which is what many steam people are complaining about anyway). Also, once they start adding stuff, etc. Keep saying the sky is falling though. We will know in the coming months what is true and what isn't, wont we?