X3TC No action from patroling or defending position ship

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Fri, 2. Mar 12, 17:24

whiteraider wrote:I like you have 1 ship that doesn't seem to want to play ball, in my case it's a Centaur in 'Avarice', that will not remember to 'Defend Station'.
I can issue the command 'defend station' 'nearest' or 'homebase' and 30s later it's 'idle'.
I havent spend much time looking at why yet, but is this what is happening to you?

From the comments that it starts firing if you are In Sector, I assume 'g' shows all guns loaded correctly.
Turret commands are ignored OOS, so that shouldn't be part of the problem.

I assume that you have checked & reset it's friend/foe settings (from the global command rather than from the ships commands)
Have you tried jumping it out of system, telling it to do anything for 30s or so, then jumping back & reissuing the commands?
Have you tried any other ship doing the same thing in Getsu Fune?
If you're using the steam version, have you verified the game?

In the mean time I'll have a look at my rogue M6 & see if I can add any insights.

'Avarice' Cool a sector I have not found yet, don't tell me
ok down to buseness. as far as your ship going idle. have you been IS when you do this if so try leaving'Avarice'and check from Oos I have noticed in my game alot of my ships will not dock,or avoid things that are not there or go idle whalI am IS but when I leave all goes back to normal. weather this is part of the problem I am having I don't know.

yes all guns are loaded weather I am IS or out I have tried the three Turret commands usable for this comand with no change in behaver.

at first I had all ships linked to global friend/foe settings when I started investigating this issue I noticed that the Pirate station in Gestu Fune is (red) but not an unfriendly so to limit the accurance of this happining I swiched the setting to friend. now I only have problems with the Yaki,Xenon(the most) and the Kha'ak (the rarest). It seams that the ship will and posibly instigate the attack and then just allow itself to be destroyed,not sure if that is the case though.

I did notice in Xenon sector 598 if I jump in the ship starts the attack and will continue after I leave but if i do not go in it will just be destroyed without firing a shot. As to your question yes but it makes no diferance.

I have just put my other Boreas that I use on missions into Gestu Fune to see what happens it may take some time for me to get results since the atacks are more randum then a Xenon sector I will also put a m3 in to see what it does.
whal I have steam this game is not the steam version. I am also not interested in converting it

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Fri, 2. Mar 12, 17:32

EternalSpace wrote:Ships not behaving in particular sectors hmm? I don't think I've seen this yet in my game. But that is very odd and sounds like a bug to me.

A Vanilla X3TC means it has no mods or scripts installed, and you haven't messed with the script editor and saved. If you have the Bonus Pack it is still considered Vanilla.

Try buying another Boreas and trying with the new one with all the same conditions. Maybe the Boreas you have is indeed bugged out for that sector.

I also think checking the global commands friend/foe settings is a good idea, remember to transmit to all reachable properties.

well then I have the Vanilla version.

I have just put my other Boreas that I use on missions into Gestu Fune to see what happens it may take some time for me to get results since the atacks are more randum then a Xenon sector I will also put a m3 in to see what it does.

at first I had all ships linked to global friend/foe settings when I started investigating this issue I noticed that the Pirate station in Gestu Fune is (red) but not an unfriendly so to limit the accurance of this happining I swiched the setting to friend. now I only have problems with the Yaki,Xenon(the most) and the Kha'ak (the rarest). It seams that the ship will and posibly instigate the attack and then just allow itself to be destroyed,not sure if that is the case though.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 01:45

well you now have another person with this problem I will Be adding all the info shortly there are others with problems that are similer but still diferant. to madssimono you can check out my string" X3TC No action from patroling or defending position ship" In X Universe General Descusion to see if there is any help there for you I have not as of yet found a solution but the sugestions given may give you insight on the issue. To the moderators I will be supplying all nessary info soon.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 01:55

To all those with this problem or to those who have helped and wish to help I am moving this post to the tec support forum under the subject "Turrets not working properly" I did not start this post but it is what a moderator sugested I do I will still monitor this post if you wish to continue your suport here. thanks to all who have tried to help with this issue

2 days later now I am being told to have this post here not in tec. I dont know what to do where ever you want to post is up to you both post are open.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 02:33

If I remember correctley this issue existed with windows XP Pro (old computer) as well as with my new computer with windows 7 pro. I have the latest drivers and am up to date with patches and have no mods.
I have a Boreas defending position in Getsu Fune the ship has all nessary hard and soft ware needed for task but it just sits there and allowes itself to be destroyed as long as I am not in the sector. It wont even use it's emergency jump As soon as I jump in it moves into action and eliminates all threats. I have tried this on patrol sector, attack all enemies, and also attack a spacific enemy with the same result. I have patrols in three other sectors which seem to be fine but have no evidance that threats have accured. This can get quite annoing when you are out of energy cells (for jump), in the middle of a fight or on a mission what am I doing wrong In some cases like right now (in game) an enemy will alert the Boreas (Xenon Q+) and move off to attack my station and also do nothing until I jump in.

<DxDiag removed as no longer required here. Alan Phipps>

A lot of info has been input in the original string I started" X3TC No action from patroling or defending position ship" and would be imposible for me to get it all here Maby a moderator can move that post into this one if that is posible. I will read the requirements for this post again to see what else I need to input.
I have X3TC the aldrin missions 3.2 no mods no script changes, English
sectors found to have issue so far are Getsu Fune, Xenon sector 598 I am sure there are others.
problem existed with older versions also(under 3.2)
After many tests I have found that this issue efects more then the Boreas m3's and other ships show the same issue including a different Boreas these ships will work fine in most sectors but I have not checked them all it at least for me this seems to be a sector issue but that is just a guess.
Oh yes this version is not conected to steam in any way.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 14:33

@ DJC: There is a gameplay issue with the Defend Position command used OOS unless it is frequently reissued. It goes like this.

You issue the defend position command at point coords with a radius of of effect. The first time an enemy approaches (say from a gate) the guard ship moves away from the central coords to intercept the enemy which it kills. After the fight it does not return to the central coords but stays at or returns only to near the edge of the defend radius (ie closest the gate).

The next enemy comes through the gate and approaches your ship. As the enemy is not yet in range of the central coords the guard ship ignores it. The enemy comes into range and opens fire yet your ship will not defend until the radius from the original coords is crossed or after it takes first full salvo damage (which could be when the guard ship is destroyed).

The best tactics to use with static guardships OOS are to keep reissuing their defend position orders, give them capital escorts, or combine them with sector patrols.

If you jump IS then the turret orders (which are not used OOS) kick in and the turrets will attack the enemy even if the guard ship itself does does not move to attack. This is the OOS vs IS difference you see.

There are also issues with guard ships chasing after fighters that they can never catch and later ending up out of position since they do not return to the centre of the defence.

I hope this explains the issues for Defend Position.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 14:57

Thank you for your responce but my ship,ships won't even fire at the first ship and is not limited to Defend position attack all enemys and attack(spacific enemy) have the same result the ship will persue but allow itself to be destroyed without firing a shot.
You are a little unclear on weather this is for all comands Oos or just defend position.
No patch or way to fix has been developed?

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 15:19

Are you aware that in X3TC OOS combat is done in rounds? These are for 30 sec rounds if you do not watch in the sector map, or 5 sec rounds if you do.

Turret orders are ignored, weapon energy and range is ignored and combat is at a fixed close range. All lasers fitted (in selected weapon groups for main battery and turrets) are added up and weighted for a round's worth of damage. Generally the faster ship or one with more aggressive* orders will fire first without a reply from the other ship. Recent patches have tried to avoid undefended first-round OOS capital ship kills of other capitals though. (* attack.. or patrol.. is more aggressive than defend.. or protect..).

Even ship vs fleet, or fleet vs fleet battles can seem like a series of sequential one-on-one fights so for example one tough ship may defeat a host of weaker ships OOS as long as it keeps firing first.

My description of the issue posted above was about the unattended OOS use of Defend Position (and just maybe Defend Station).

There is no patch or fix for this because for some players such as myself it doesn't seem to be that broken once you know the limitations. I have no issues with IS or OOS capital defend position or patrol commands. I use groups of 3 capitals OOS (leader on defend position plus 2 escorts on attack target of and attack nearest enemy of leader) and they eliminate Q patrol groups with hardly ever any hull damage. Patrols only go wrong when they chase after ships they cannot possibly catch.

Oh yes, I don't use Ammo-based weapons anywhere on OOS ships. If just one runs out of ammo then all firing stops! I also put OOS missile % to zero as firing one single warhead insta-hit missile damage replaces all the laser damage total for the capital for that round.

This is really looking more like Universe gameplay stuff than Tech Support.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 15:59

I Have a universe post on this issue another moderator in a pm told me to post here
I only use energy weapons although I do have missles loaded if I understand you correctly I should unload them? as far as the rest of what you said it is WAY over my head.
I will try reading it over a few times I can be a little slow.
I must also point out that this does not happen in all sectors.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 16:10

If it only happens in some sectors then that implies that the sectors with the problem are taxing your cpu such that the game starts shutting down non-essential scripts (eg turrets) to keep the basics running. You can see the same thing happen by engaging SETA x10 in the middle of a battle.

You need to work out why those particular sectors are stressing your cpu (asteroid clutter, Player complexes, NPC battles, over-large fleets, traders flocking around particular stations, or a corruption such as a broken ship or station model, script or job, etc).

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 16:16

there is no way this game could posibly tax my cpu or my computer I built it I know
SETA does not even tax this computer or cpu

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 16:18

<Smiles>

Just to humour me, use something like FRAPS and take fps readings in sectors with and without your turret issue. I would be intrigued to know why running scripts that do not know or care where they are are being used are shutting down in some sectors but not in others.

By the way, when I say cpu I mean the single core running the game .exe.

You might also wish to see why your DxDiag says your ROG sound device has no valid driver:

Description: Speakers (ROG ThunderBolt Audio)
Default Sound Playback: No
Default Voice Playback: No
Hardware ID: USB\VID_0B05&PID_17A3&REV_0107&MI_00
Manufacturer ID: 65535
Product ID: 65535
Type: WDM
Driver Name: {0.0.0.00000000}.{547c691d-0343-4fb5-872c-c5c7651dbec8}
Driver Version: ()
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: n/a
Date and Size: , 0 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: C-MEDIA Inc.

If you are instead using the RealTek onboard sound device then I would disable the ROG device in Device Manager and update the RealTek driver from the RealTek update site.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Sat, 3. Mar 12, 23:33

whiteraider wrote:I...I can issue the command 'defend station' 'nearest' or 'homebase' and 30s later it's 'idle'.
I havent spend much time looking at why yet, but is this what is happening to you?

Just a note:

"Defend Station" is a one-time command. The ship will defend the station against a current attack and then will go "idle", waiting for a new command. It will not continue to carry out the "Defend Station" command, regardless if the station comes under a new attack. This command is most useful for defending NPC stations during one engagement, not player-owned stations.

If you used "Attack nearest enemy of" with a station as the target, I don't know what would happen. I don't think I have ever used it. However, it might be one that ends up ordering fighters to dock with the station (or anything with docking bays). If so, a ship that can't dock with the station may go "idle" but would ignore that requirement when escorting another ship. Generally, I use "Defend Position" centered on the Station and this works just fine. However, ships do not reset their positions when carrying out "Defend Position" orders, so they can get lured away at times. Yet, they will still defend the position, it just takes longer for them to get there.

For "Homebase" I'm not sure what you mean. But, if you order a command that a ship can not complete, it will go idle. For instance, if you issue an order that would normally require the ship to dock and it is not capable of docking with that station, it will go idle.

Edit - Fixed quote spillover.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sun, 4. Mar 12, 00:53

I will try your FRAPS sugestion never used it before so I am not familier with it. I did however just download it so give me some time to figure it out.
as far as ROG sound device has no valid driver: I never instaled it I use the onboard sound card instead I get no error in the device manager so I did not know it was not disabled shouldn't they conflict with each other?
well I just disabled it and the RealTek driver is courent, I just checked
as far as the cpu this is a i7 Quad core 3.2GHz so each core is 3.2GHz well above recomended specs for this game it also has a Asus Rampage III black addition Mother board capible of handling 4 video cards and a 6 core cpu so there is no taxing there I only have the one video card . Now I may have built this system but I will admit I do not understand all the tec jargan that is involved. But I have never built a system that could not handle the latest and highest In game needs, I started building in '95. So since it is less then a year old I really doubt this game would tax it in any way. But I am interested in knowing myself. thanks for the sugestions I will get back to you with the info.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sun, 4. Mar 12, 04:03

ok that was not so hard. My problem sectors that I know of are Getsu Fune and Xenon sector 598 they hold at 60 fps and 598 drops to 55 during a fight. Xenon sector 101 is not an issue and holds at 60-58 during a fight. I do not know if there is a problem in Aldrin but with my last computer this sector was the worst for proformance(slow and chopy did all I could to avoid it) here it seams odd this computer runs clean perfict proformance with fps at 38 but when I move the mouse quickly it goes up to 40 that seams Odd? Another system in which I do not seam to have an issue with is ore belt when quiet it runs at 50(educated guess). Right now there seems to be a war going on between the Parinid and the Argon. The Parinid are destroying everything fps varies from 30 to 45. So at this time the sectors I have a problem with have the highist frame rate I picked the worst systems I know of for this test with the exception of the ones I have trouble in.

I hope this is ok to ask if not I am sorry
on an unrelated Issue since you are familier with Fraps would you know why every time I run it I get the message "Do you want to allow the folowing program to make changes to this computer" that should only happen with an install. I am logged in as an admistrator.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sun, 4. Mar 12, 11:51

I suspect FRAPS is trying to put a FRAPS icon/start button into your Windows Toolbar, hence the system message.

Thanks for the fps tests but were you also experiencing IS Player-owned ship turret failure at the time of your tests? I am trying to establish if and why your turret scripts are completely shutting down - the only reason known to date is cpu core stress.

If it isn't the turret scripts then it could be the content and hit-detection set in the new Turret Priority facility. An example issue to do with the Protect function is here.

How are you checking your RealTek driver? Windows Update is useless and even mobo manufacturers soon lose interest in updating associated drivers. RealTek are currently updating very frequently to optimise for the Service Packs and Windows updates as released and you will get a Win7 x64 driver for your chipset there from late 2011 or even early 2012.

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Sun, 4. Mar 12, 18:11

<You don't have to keep repeating or quoting everything I say when we are in dialogue - it wastes thread space and so I have edited them out. Alan>

thanks for the FRAPS info I will look into that.

I am assuming that my tests show no taxing? I am not realy familier with frame rates. I only know the higher the better.

one thing I did not mention is that all video settings from X3TC start menu are set to max.

I have never had in IS issue with the turrets. This is with ships that I am not on I may have tried auto pilot once with X3 reunion and did not like it but I beleive the ship did fire as is should not sure if that is what you ment.
however now that I think of it I did board my Boreas to do something destructive most likley to destroy a roid I only had access to missles no guns were present in the lower left corner of the screen no matter what i tried I could not fire the guns then I transferied to my spitfire and the Boreas started firing. I wrote this off as just the way it is and moved on.
The link you sent me to is for AP does it still apply? I do not have AP as of yet although I will most likley be ording the war pack today.

I used the update driver option from the device manager for the "RealTek" device. I will try to go to the "RealTek" website.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sun, 4. Mar 12, 19:30

Where you said "now that I think of it I did board my Boreas to do something destructive most likley to destroy a roid I only had access to missles no guns were present in the lower left corner of the screen"

You should realise that most big capital ships only have turrets and no main battery. You can only fire the guns personally by getting into the turrets by cycling through them using F1. Most capitals will be sent to fight automatically through their turrets having turret orders.

I am now totally confused though. Are your issues with turrets not firing when you in the ship or when you are IS in another ship (which is what this thread was originally about) or are you having problems with ships not fighting OOS where turrets are irrelevant?

DJC · Post by **DJC** » Mon, 5. Mar 12, 01:45

sorry about the quoting

I never get into a capatal that was something I was testing a long time ago. I just use comands to use them. I did forget about needing to getting to the turret though

I read the opening post to this thread again I beleive I read it right.

I am having trouble with ships not using their turrets or main guns depending on the ship in certian systems when I am out of that system on a mission or other task. The first post reads "when I leave them alone" I am assuming this ment out Oos. he never posted again to clearify. I hope we were on the same page here. If i read your last coment correctley then we are not and now I feel like a...... well can't say. it also means that I hyjacked this persons post and I am truly sorry if that is the case.

my original string in X universe general descution is "X3TC No action from patroling or defending position ship" I pm'ed CBJ and asked him to look at it since I was not getting anywhere. I do not know if he did or not. He responded with "I do not have time to look at the whole string at this time post in tec support and if i get a chance I will read it. I read the rules and this post seamed to fit the description of my problem again his first post was all I had to go on.

EternalSpace · Post by **EternalSpace** » Mon, 5. Mar 12, 07:53

To let you know and to offer you some relief, this is not being caused by Steam, I currently have the DVD version but I'm pretty sure Steam is not to blame for this bug.

Also I think it is a good idea to use Defend Position or perhaps even Defend Sector/Patrol Sector although as pointed out I think Defend Sector would stop after a threat is eliminated just as with Defend Station.

I would add additional fighter support, a few M3's so that they detect the enemy and maybe they will call over the Boreas for support. If the Boreas has a hanger bay try adding some fighters to it and see if when it gets in a combat scenario if it launches it's fighters to protect itself. I'm not sure if any of the M2's have hanger bays though, so just have them set to protect the ship maybe or have them set to Patrol and have the Boreas set to protect the M3's.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

X3TC No action from patroling or defending position ship