@Snowyhands and othe 'x evangelists'

[boogyman]

Its funny how in brief the post was along the lines of

...."the X community is bad mouthing us"...

then they go on to bad mouth the x community

i just dont get it

how can they expect there post to be thought of as an act of self defence when they are doing the very same thing themselves.

[SteveMill]

What you have to remember Dip is that no-one from here, apart from Flibble, has done any trolling. all we've done is question and give our opinions on design decisions and the heavy handed censorship of the mods. that is not trolling, it is the sort of free speech any reasonable adult modding a board should expect to see.

Reactor is the primary FL board yet they run it like a bunch of hysterical old maids running around putting skirts on chair legs whilst wearing their "La La La, i'm not Listening Finger Hats." Frankly, their behaviour is risible, apart from being self-defeating.

I'd also like to point out that constantly repeating

"Design decision X doesn't matter." does not make it so.

To argue that arrows pointing off-screen is a substitute for a proper radar is just jaw-droppingly inane and the fact they've convinced themselves it doesn't matter has no bearing whatsoever on whether I find it an adequate substitute particularly as flight sims routinely have both options anyway.

This is just classic denial, the refusal to face up to the fact that FL has been gutted of most promised features so that it'll work for the X-box. Hence the lack of joystick and forced third person perspective requiring the removal of the radar to accomodate the view of your ship.

If these people truly believed decisions like no 3d cockpit are reversible they should not be shutting up all the potential purchasers who are saying they don't like the decision. All good feedback I'd have thought.

I also firmly believe a game community forum should be a source of information on what people see as the good and bad points of a game. If it is just a marketing arm its worthless as a community.

[SteveMill]

Come on Steve, no-one is against fair and reasoned comments but rather the somewhat idiotic posts that have been seen recently both on here and the TLR forum.

Notethat this is a very brief post and I'm not claiming to cover all angles or thoughts with it. I'll try and do that later when I've got a minute.

Al

what idiotic posts?

[pjknibbs]

yes, i'm against Trolling of other forums, but to me is seems that "Tachyon" was accusing us as a whole, thats what i dont like

That's why several of us have gone over there to point out that we're not all the same.

[Al]

certain posts on this forum by the likes of Snowy, wargod3000, flibble etc. While some/most are meant in jest they simply dont come across that way. If you search through the various FL related topics there are quite a few examples.

Al

[SteveMill]

certain posts on this forum by the likes of Snowy, wargod3000, flibble etc. While some/most are meant in jest they simply dont come across that way. If you search through the various FL related topics there are quite a few examples.

Al

Fair enough but posts on our forum are no business whatsoever of mods from another forum and mods from here have no business whatsoever apologising for posts here.

Nor for that matter is it any of their business what individuals from here say on another board unless people are claiming to be official spokesmen for the board, particularly when i don't use my X handle.

Jeez, not content with stifling free speech there they want to do the same here.

[Al]

[quote="SteveMill

Fair enough but posts on our forum are no business whatsoever of mods from another forum and mods from here have no business whatsoever apologising for posts here.

Nor for that matter is it any of their business what individuals from here say on another board unless people are claiming to be official spokesmen for the board, particularly when i don't use my X handle.

Jeez, not content with stifling free speech there they want to do the same here.[/quote]

I think it boils down to being protective of something. We are protective of X in the same way that they are protective of FL. Some of our members instigated the problem by either posting crap on their forum or by simply breaking their rules. Its all blown out of proportion (IMHO) now and I dont think any amount of reasoning will address all the issues.

Al

[carran]

I read it as an over-reaction from someone (Tachyon) who cares very much about FL, essentially this boils down to a small minority of people on both sides either taking exception or deliberately intending to cause trouble between the boards.

I may buy FL, I don't know yet, time permitting I will give it a go. On the Joystick / radar etc front, they may have something, I'm not prepared to dismiss it because it doesn't "sound right", I'll try it and make my own judgement - incidentally, there are people here who don't use a joystick in XT but prefer the keyboard, so a joystick is not essential for a flight sim.

From my brief foray into TFR / FL they seem as reasonable as most of us are here, let's enjoy the fact that there's 2 space sims coming to fruition soon and not get into a "mine's better than yours" scenario

Edit

Though I'm certainly interested to see what areas X2 can be improved upon based upon experiences with FL

[Rogue]

I read it as an over-reaction from someone (Tachyon) who cares very much about FL, essentially this boils down to a small minority of people on both sides either taking exception or deliberately intending to cause trouble between the boards.

I may buy FL, I don't know yet, time permitting I will give it a go. On the Joystick / radar etc front, they may have something, I'm not prepared to dismiss it because it doesn't "sound right", I'll try it and make my own judgement - incidentally, there are people here who don't use a joystick in XT but prefer the keyboard, so a joystick is not essential for a flight sim.

From my brief foray into TFR / FL they seem as reasonable as most of us are here, let's enjoy the fact that there's 2 space sims coming to fruition soon and not get into a "mine's better than yours" scenario

Hear hear.

[SteveMill]

[quote="SteveMill

Fair enough but posts on our forum are no business whatsoever of mods from another forum and mods from here have no business whatsoever apologising for posts here.

Nor for that matter is it any of their business what individuals from here say on another board unless people are claiming to be official spokesmen for the board, particularly when i don't use my X handle.

Jeez, not content with stifling free speech there they want to do the same here.

I think it boils down to being protective of something. We are protective of X in the same way that they are protective of FL. Some of our members instigated the problem by either posting crap on their forum or by simply breaking their rules. Its all blown out of proportion (IMHO) now and I dont think any amount of reasoning will address all the issues.

Al[/quote]

If we became that protective of X2 I'll be outta here like a shot. If X2 comes out untested with an enemy AI as poor as in XT you bet i'll be bitching about it. And I'd expect Egosoft to suck it up not censor me so as to conceal faults from potential customers.

[carran]

There's every indication ES will do just as you suggest and not ignore problems, it's clear ES have a different relationship with their fans than most companies.

I think there's a very different philosophy here than the FL board, rather like comparing apples to oranges. Somehow Steve, I expect you to comment on any weaknesses in X2, and look forward to an in-depth review

[Winter Dragon]

I like coming to this forum. The truth is I don't care about the FL forum or the FL community... ...I simply, don't.. care. I care about this forum though, and the threat of having a bunch of pissed off customers from FL coming over here and causing trouble because apparantly we did something to them that they didn't like.

I'm trying to mind my business here when all of a sudden there's some sort of 'war' waging between their community and ours. I don't know who started what - I don't have the evidence.

I just want to be left alone in peace here without a barrage of Freelancers accusing me of ruining their forum. I'm sure those of you in this community want the same, - and as for certain threads being posted over there to wind them up - yes I believe there have been a few which didn't help.

Others have tried to make a better representation but to little avail it seems.

ah well FL, ... it wasn't me.

[SteveMill]

There's every indication ES will do just as you suggest and not ignore problems, it's clear ES have a different relationship with their fans than most companies.

I think there's a very different philosophy here than the FL board, rather like comparing apples to oranges. Somehow Steve, I expect you to comment on any weaknesses in X2, and look forward to an in-depth review

Yep, unlike other companies Egosoft actually listen to their customers and fix problems. That's something i always take pains to point out when being critical. Egosoft aren't rip-off merchants, but they do also have a tendency to use purchasers of version 1.0 as paying beta testers, which IMHO is just stupid. We know they'll fix things but by that time the original bugged release has done its damage among potential purchasers.

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

At least for a few days we actually had something to talk about. IMHO you should all bow down and worship Snowy and myself as gods for lifting the tedium

[Al]

There's every indication ES will do just as you suggest and not ignore problems, it's clear ES have a different relationship with their fans than most companies.

I think there's a very different philosophy here than the FL board, rather like comparing apples to oranges. Somehow Steve, I expect you to comment on any weaknesses in X2, and look forward to an in-depth review

Yep, unlike other companies Egosoft actually listen to their customers and fix problems. That's something i always take pains to point out when being critical. Egosoft aren't rip-off merchants, but they do also have a tendency to use purchasers of version 1.0 as paying beta testers, which IMHO is just stupid. We know they'll fix things but by that time the original bugged release has done its damage among potential purchasers.

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

At least for a few days we actually had something to talk about. IMHO you should all bow down and worship Snowy and myself as gods for lifting the tedium

I think I agree with most of it, but perhaps the last bit with some reservations

Al

[SteveMill]

I think I agree with most of it, but perhaps the last bit with some reservations

Al

Then I condemn you to Hell, disbeliever and command all true fans of X games to hunt you down like a dog.

[carran]

There's every indication ES will do just as you suggest and not ignore problems, it's clear ES have a different relationship with their fans than most companies.

I think there's a very different philosophy here than the FL board, rather like comparing apples to oranges. Somehow Steve, I expect you to comment on any weaknesses in X2, and look forward to an in-depth review

Yep, unlike other companies Egosoft actually listen to their customers and fix problems. That's something i always take pains to point out when being critical. Egosoft aren't rip-off merchants, but they do also have a tendency to use purchasers of version 1.0 as paying beta testers, which IMHO is just stupid. We know they'll fix things but by that time the original bugged release has done its damage among potential purchasers.

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

At least for a few days we actually had something to talk about. IMHO you should all bow down and worship Snowy and myself as gods for lifting the tedium

Now you've gone and done it!

"Thou shalt worship no other gods...."

Roll on X News 9 - now there's a thought!

[Al]

I think I agree with most of it, but perhaps the last bit with some reservations

Al

Then I condemn you to Hell, disbeliever and command all true fans of X games to hunt you down like a dog.

Damn...not again



Al

[Steel]

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

Well you have been here long enough to know what is acceptable and what isn't. I see nothing wrong. Just ppl expressing opinions plus the odd childish comment, but nothing to warrant any censorship.

I have read the FL forum. Don't intend to comment because its not my forum and I am only interested in this one.

If anything gets out of hand on here, it'll be dealt with as always.

Cheers,

Steel

[boogyman]

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

Well you have been here long enough to know what is acceptable and what isn't. I see nothing wrong. Just ppl expressing opinions plus the odd childish comment, but nothing to warrant any censorship.

I have read the FL forum. Don't intend to comment because its not my forum and I am only interested in this one.

If anything gets out of hand on here, it'll be dealt with as always.

Cheers,

Steel

Well said Steel

[SteveMill]

And yes, I will be calling a spade a spade, should there be spade around in need of naming. I'm afraid i'm not a mincer of words although I still maintain I was the very model of reasonableness on the FL board regardless of any sarky remarks here concerning FL, which are none of their business and so long as I'm not being abusive, none of our Mods business also, unless we suddenly aren't allowed to discuss other products in anything but a lauditory fashion.

Well you have been here long enough to know what is acceptable and what isn't. I see nothing wrong. Just ppl expressing opinions plus the odd childish comment, but nothing to warrant any censorship.

I have read the FL forum. Don't intend to comment because its not my forum and I am only interested in this one.

If anything gets out of hand on here, it'll be dealt with as always.

Cheers,

Steel

Thanks Steel. Hands off moderation is the way to build a big and lively community, as is recognising the difference between constructive criticism and flaming/trolling. A distinction FL fails singularly to recognise.