The jasmine revolution spreads?

[BeidAmmikon]

I've heard that people have formed a cordon themselves around the National Museum in Cairo, which nevertheless has been penetrated by thieves in a degree.
If only the looting of the Baghdad Museum in 2003 would remain an isolated case. Valuable things are inside, more valuable than their selling price.

What can be done?


Hmmm... "Military calling on Egyptians to protect their own properties from looters". Hear! Hear! Second Amendment, anyone?


And an interesting piece on Egypt's Hero(TM) and the nature of the popular revolution there.
Free or not, those people are undoubtedly poor.

[Warenwolf]

Associated Press reports that china is now censoring the information about the protests in Egypt.

From Al Jazeera's "Live blog 29/1 - Egypt protests":

Ayman Mohyeldin reports that eyewitnesses have said "party thugs" associated with the Egyptian regime's Central Security Services - in plainclothes but bearing government-issued weapons - have been looting in Cairo. Ayman says the reports started off as isolated accounts but are now growing in number.

Well, if the army announces that it will crack down on the looting and the malcontents it may be an indication that the top brass in the military have chosen to support the regime.

Regarding OP:
There are also reports of small scale protests in both Jordan and Yemen. We'll see the future will bring...

[Lion Around]

You know, despite the HUGE economic, social, political, and even military consequences that might occur if Egypt actually "falls" and perhaps one or two other Middle Eastern countries, I can't help but sit back and laugh at it. Not that I'm laughing at the terrible conditions or the bloodshed, or the violence, or death of innocent people.... No, I'm laughing at the idiots in power that keep trying to control individuals. It irritates me no end that gov'ts in Iran and China and other countries will do everything to censor the internet and media to keep their people ignorant. These people WANT freedom, but are denied it. As much as I'd love to see oppressed people around the world throw out their corrupt gov'ts.... what are the chances?

It won't be long before the American media simply loses interest in what is going on over there and we'll go back to watching American Idol. Both Tunisia and Egypt will end up with "new" governments no different than the previous regimes. "Different day, same shit."

What a world.

[Incubi]

Good post. I'll start by saying that I do not believe the U.S. is evil. They are just trying to protect their interests, and balancing world stability would be enough to drive anyone mental, methinks. I do think in this case they are demonstrating that they have not learned their lesson from Vietnam. Installing or supporting a despot for the sake of stability really can backfire.

And what happened in Vietnam

Coldwar, alliance with the French, and the Red Scare. You do know the war was well under way for many years long before we got involved right? Seems like fingers only point in one direction around here.

[BeidAmmikon]

As much as I'd love to see oppressed people around the world throw out their corrupt gov'ts.... what are the chances?

I think that is sufficient to keep the flame of the "revolution" lit - the people should be continuously aware of (educated on) the causes and demands that have led to the uprising of their predecessors, and also they should be monitoring their government very closely, to check on their commitment to those conditions. The second the govt does not abide to them anymore, it's off to the gallows with them, and start all over again. But do the people have the time to keep tabs on their leaders? Looks like they don't - ingrained subservience and trust in NGOs have done a lot of damage to civil liberties and the perception of individual power, everywhere. So revolutions start now when the majority demands the same thing, which can be as basic as food, or shelter, or the freedom to surf the 'net. However, once The People, or a powerful section (whatever that power is) of them, realize they've got nothing to lose anymore, then it's pretty much game over for the tyrants.
Everyone should study the early history of the United States and France, and the history of the revolutions in their own country. There are some essential lessons in there - both for the governed, but more importantly, for those who would wish to govern.
I further believe that corruption leads to organized corruption (Mafia), to wrongful and discretionary exercise of law, to unpopular measures, to inequality, to revolution. People, regardless where they are, and how poor, must uproot and destroy their local Mafia, and everything should be fine afterwards. The chances of this happening are beginning to increase, thanks to these poor people in Africa, towards whom I look in admiration. Good teachers should be shown respect.

[Aye Capn]

Hmm, looks like we were all in on this one, or at least we are now.

Or perhaps we've been all in all along. I'd feel a lot better if I believed we had a plan and a few people on the ground to act on it.

[RegisterMe]

According to Radio 4 this morning, Mubarak's family is all outside the country (including Gamal?), and the police and army have withdrawn from the streets of Cairo.

[Warenwolf]

Hmm, looks like we were all in on this one, or at least we are now.

Or perhaps we've been all in all along. I'd feel a lot better if I believed we had a plan and a few people on the ground to act on it.

Regular contact with dissident X and call for democracy six years ago while at same time financing the regime doesn't sound like "all in on this one" but rather like some of us are spreading their bets (unevenly too - 1.5 bn (?) USD in year vs contacts with dissident X and occasional calls for democracy)

According to Radio 4 this morning, Mubarak's family is all outside the country (including Gamal?), and the police and army have withdrawn from the streets of Cairo.

Police is gone but the army is still manning the roadblocks in Cairo.

The business elite is fleeing Egypt too. 19 (or 17, depends on who is doing the reporting) private jets have left egypt for dubai.

[BeidAmmikon]

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That's fawz (Victory) and the Orion
Needless to say, watching the poor and needy rise against Teh System, I'm having the time of my life


The 8@$[@^)$ continue the information war on their people: Al Jazira Arabic taken down in Egypt

[philip_hughes]

Freedom is delicious. My thoughts are with the egyptian people. I want for them a leader who won't screw them over, and in quick time before the unrest brings a less suitable candidate.

[BeidAmmikon]

Now fighter jets are scrambling and flying at low altitude over the people in Tahrir Square in Cairo, to scare them off, but the people are shouting back at them in defiance at each of their passing. You can actually hear the sound of engines roaring. It's unbelievable.
V from Victory!

[brucewarren]

Flying fighter jets over the crowd is the stupest thing I can imagine.
What if some pilot panics and starts firing?

[imperium3]

The army, at least the common rank and file (they're conscripts for the most part) seems to be very much on the side of the people. There was one particularly heartwarming story I saw (can't find the link now) when they tried to move a firetruck through the protest. Protesters stopped it, and the escort soldiers fired in the air to scare them off. This had no effect, so they withdrew the truck and sent it via another route. And the protesters came forward and hugged the soldiers and treated them like heroes. Another time four armoured personnel carriers joined an attempt to reach the party HQ (though they didn't open fire on the defending police, of course). Plus in other areas the military has genuinely been dealing only with looters and protecting government buildings rather than rounding up demonstrations.

If Mubarak goes for the Tiananmen option, he's going to have a hell of a job finding enough men prepared to pull the trigger, and even then a fair number of soldiers might take matters into their own hands and fire back.

Also it seems that state personnel are absconding left, right and centre. A load of Muslim Brotherhood leaders got out of jail because the guards deserted, the Interior Ministry is empty, and apparently Hamas has shut Gaza's border crossing because the Egyptian border guards have gone. Why they shut it I don't know, but I guess they're not keen on giving Israel excuses to bomb them again.

All in all, I think the regime's days are numbered.

Edit: Judging by Hilary Clinton's comments here, I think the US government agrees with me, though naturally they want to make sure Mubarak is replaced by another one of their stooges.

[de la Serna]

Flying fighter jets over the crowd is the stupest thing I can imagine.
What if some pilot panics and starts firing?

Panics over what? Eggs thrown at his plane?

I don't believe a trained fighter jet pilot can possibly lose his marbles while he's just flying his plane in a non combat situation (he's not a police officer engulfed by rioters).

IF he opened fire, it would be because of a direct order, which is what I fear could happen if worse comes to worst.
In fact, IF Mubarak doesn't ultimately agree to step down peacefully, he'll eventually have to take harsh measures in order to 'suppress' the upheaval. Which is when we'll see where the military really stands in this and what lengths they're willing to go.

[Warenwolf]

Flying fighter jets over the crowd is the stupest thing I can imagine.
What if some pilot panics and starts firing?

Why should a pilot panic? The crowd is no threat to them.


The fighter jets may as well be a veiled signal to the army in the city - The air force is with Mubarak (wasn't one of his ministers a former chief of the air force?).

I have also observed that great many army personnel (looks like mostly conscripts) is holding weapons with no ammunition magazines (however with bayonets fixed). I am wondering about why.

[BeidAmmikon]

The People to Mubarak: "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Let justice be done upon him!"
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The US to Mubarak: "No matter what comes through that gate, you will stand your ground!"
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The European Union to anyone involved: [Void, Null, Nada, Zilch]
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[LV]

it can't be all bad there

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[Warenwolf]

This picture is disturbing on so many levels. White socks in red shoes and a blue helmet? Has this man no taste?

[Aye Capn]

Hmm, looks like we were all in on this one, or at least we are now.

Or perhaps we've been all in all along. I'd feel a lot better if I believed we had a plan and a few people on the ground to act on it.

Regular contact with dissident X and call for democracy six years ago while at same time financing the regime doesn't sound like "all in on this one" but rather like some of us are spreading their bets (unevenly too - 1.5 bn (?) USD in year vs contacts with dissident X and occasional calls for democracy)

A straddle does sound a lot more like the American modus operandi. I doubt there's any one decision-maker deciding we need to play both sides as much as there are so many people with power and influence covering so many positions that a straddle is the inevitable emergent policy.

[de la Serna]

Edit: Judging by Hilary Clinton's comments here, I think the US government agrees with me, though naturally they want to make sure Mubarak is replaced by another one of their stooges.

I'm surprised they don't have a cloning facility for that...

Like a, puppet'O'matic(TM) to create your customized friendly local tyrant.
Need a Pinochet, Batista, Pahlavi? No problemo (all they miss is a reliable self-destruct mechanism linked to small cute innocent looking buttons placed beside teh apocalypse button)