TL mining

[Nanook]

Nanook, you only need the MDS if you want to remote-bust sector asteroids. None of my Caravel mobile miners have MDS. If the Falcon Hauler can fit an ore collector and any damage laser then it can mobile-mine a debris field to its heart's content......

I gave my Falcons a full load of weapons, homebased them to the TL, and gave them the mine minerals command. They simply sat in one place and did nothing, with their command almost immediately reverting to 'None'. I gave the Caiman miners basic weapons, and they did the same thing. Not a single ship collected a single piece of ore until I equipped the Caiman Miners with an MDS.

And they're currently mining only debris, not map asteroids, as far as I can tell. At least, no asteroids have turned up missing, despite filling the Albatross three times already. Maybe all that you're getting is the loose rocks that are already broken down, I don't know. But I do know I got absolutely nothing in Seizewell until I gave those Caimans MDS's. And Seizewell is littered with non-map rocks.

Oh yeah, I also have a similar operation going in Home of Light. Tons of rock debris and no asteroids. Last time I jumped in, I watched the MDS-equipped Caimans there blast a number of larger rocks into smaller ones. And lo and behold, some of them took shield damage in the process. So maybe there is some built-in damage effect in mobile mining.

[Alan Phipps]

OK, we may be talking about different ways of mobile mining here. If you are using Trade, Mine and Trade Minerals then you could be right - I don't use that command because I like to control what minerals I collect and where I put them. Also I suspect that using it with MDS mounted will bust sector asteroids when it runs out of rocks - wasn't that the complaint when it was bugged and totally cleared sectors although for very little gain?

I am talking about Special, Mine Minerals which does not need an MDS to mine the debris field, breaks all non-collectable rocks short of full-size asteroids (unlike Collect Rocks) using any laser and you specify what to collect and exactly where to put it. (I assume that a ship with MDS mounted could bust full asteroids OOS under this command but I have not tried it.)

Edit: Tried Mine and Trade on one of my Caravels with no MDS - went off happily and broke-up/collected.

Have you tried mining with another TS that cannot mount MDS? The Demeter TS (non-miner variant 3800 cargo) mines just fine but can't mount MDS. If we are using the same commands and have all the ship extensions fitted then there has to be something different about our game set-ups. Mine is Vanilla X TC 2.0a English DVD.

Thanks for the info on the asteroid busting but you were IS watching so it does not fully clear up my conundrum over reported OOS damage to miners.

[Nanook]

OK, we may be talking about different ways of mobile mining here. If you are using Trade, Mine and Trade Minerals then you could be right - I don't use that command because I like to control what minerals I collect and where I put them. Also I suspect that using it with MDS mounted will bust sector asteroids when it runs out of rocks - wasn't that the complaint when it was bugged and totally cleared sectors although for very little gain?

I am talking about Special, Mine Minerals which does not need an MDS to mine the debris field, breaks all non-collectable rocks short of full-size asteroids (unlike Collect Rocks) using any laser and you specify what to collect and exactly where to put it. (I assume that a ship with MDS mounted could bust full asteroids OOS under this command but I have not tried it.)

Hmm, that's actually the command I use, too. I actually tried both the Trade menu and Special menu versions, with the same results both times. And I was using a different TS to start with. I think it was a captured Vulture. Besides, ship variant shouldn't matter.

While mine isn't vanilla, it's only modded to remove the fog, and to use the boarding hotkeys, neither of which affects mobile mining. This bears further testing, since something else is obviously different between our games. I spent a lot of credits outfitting those 14 Falcon Haulers (7 for each of the original two Albatross's I was setting up).

I am running a game started with v1.4, if that makes any difference. Perhaps some of the original mobile mining problems carried over.

[Alan Phipps]

Strange indeed! I started my game after the first patch (1.2?) and have played that one since.

I just stuck an ore collector on a Falcon Hauler in Black Hole Sun, homebased it to a TL, and told it to mine ore in BHS. It accepted command and then quickly went to none just as you describe. OK that makes sense as there are no rocks in BHS. Flew it to Nathan's Voyage where I have 12 Caravels happily mining, commanded it to mine ore there and off it went and mined/collected. I won't insult you by asking if you were sure there were rocks of the right sort where you were trying!

An off-the-wall idea follows: If you don't have an MDS mounted, perhaps debris mining only works after you have debris-scanned the sector - otherwise how does the ship know that anything collectable is there? Makes a sort of sense since with an MDS and map asteroids you can always make your own debris.

[Alan Phipps]

Sorry, no joy. I just sent a no-MDS miner into a sector that I had not scanned for debris and it quite happily started mining. OK, I am now stumped as to why our mobile-mining capabilities should differ over whether you do or don't need the MDS!

[Nanook]

Strange indeed! I started my game after the first patch (1.2?) and have played that one since.

I just stuck an ore collector on a Falcon Hauler in Black Hole Sun, homebased it to a TL, and told it to mine ore in BHS. It accepted command and then quickly went to none just as you describe. OK that makes sense as there are no rocks in BHS. Flew it to Nathan's Voyage where I have 12 Caravels happily mining, commanded it to mine ore there and off it went and mined/collected. I won't insult you by asking if you were sure there were rocks of the right sort where you were trying!

Good, because there were. Seizewell. Home of Light. Aladna Hill. All currently being mined successfully by Caiman Miners, with MDS's.

An off-the-wall idea follows: If you don't have an MDS mounted, perhaps debris mining only works after you have debris-scanned the sector - otherwise how does the ship know that anything collectable is there? Makes a sort of sense since with an MDS and map asteroids you can always make your own debris.

Been there, done that. It's actually the first thing I do to get an idea of the approximate output of a sector. It also lets me know if there's any Nividium present. Actually, since a miner requires the Mineral Scanner, and I give all my miners Triplex Scanners, too, they should know almost as much as the scanner ship.

Sorry, no joy. I just sent a no-MDS miner into a sector that I had not scanned for debris and it quite happily started mining. OK, I am now stumped as to why our mobile-mining capabilities should differ over whether you do or don't need the MDS!

Yeah, me too. I'd really like to get the Falcons working, just to make it easier to relocate the operation when the time comes. Docking them on the TL and jumping to another sector just seems more efficient, and immersive. I think this calls for further testing.

[Alan Phipps]

Just to test out some pretty obvious things:

a) Could you confirm if there are any ship extensions that you have on the miners that are working compared with the ones that don't - just to see if there are any (consistent) differences - even if seeming innocuous/irrelevant.

b) How sure are you that your MDS ships aren't starting off by breaking a sector asteroid?

c) Just for a test, what happens to the operation of one of your miners if you eject the MDS mid-job?

d) When your MDS miners have finished with a sector and stop, is it clean of all rocks (less nividium and/or worthless rubble rocks) and are the sector map asteroids still there as far as you can see?

Sorry about this - I feel uncomfortable that I am asking you questions and not the other way round!

[Nanook]

Just to test out some pretty obvious things:

a) Could you confirm if there are any ship extensions that you have on the miners that are working compared with the ones that don't - just to see if there are any (consistent) differences - even if seeming innocuous/irrelevant.

Always the same. Both the working ones and those that didn't. Same loadouts.

b) How sure are you that your MDS ships aren't starting off by breaking a sector asteroid?

Home of Light has no map asteroids, but plenty of debris rocks. Those miners all have MDS installed, since Caiman Miners don't mount anything else in their turrets. And they're all currently mining away (well, not currently, since I'm at work and the game isn't running at home).

c) Just for a test, what happens to the operation of one of your miners if you eject the MDS mid-job?

Good point, but since Caiman Miners can't mount anything else in their turrets, my guess is that they'd just start colllecting what they've already broken up and then stop. I guess I could get another MDS-capable ship, like one of the Mercury variants, give it both an MDS to start, and then switch to a different weapon, and see what happens.

d) When your MDS miners have finished with a sector and stop, is it clean of all rocks (less nividium and/or worthless rubble rocks) and are the sector map asteroids still there as far as you can see?

Can't say. None of my operations have gotten that far yet.

Sorry about this - I feel uncomfortable that I am asking you questions and not the other way round!

No problem. Another viewpoint helps to give me ideas to test. Unfortunately for the testing thing, I probably won't have time to do any testing tonight, since I have a hockey game, and that usually means going home, gathering my gear, driving to the rink, playing for an hour, drinking some beer, showering, going home and sleeping. Maybe tomorrow night.

[Alan Phipps]

OK - Turrets - I wonder! What if Miners must have turret weapons? If you drop your MDS then you have no mounted turret weapon so it may not work. I use Caravels - loads of turret weapons. Also my Demeter TS was armed in the rear turret. Falcon Haulers have a turret but did yours have a weapon installed and mounted? Oh, and with what turret orders? Just a thought.

[Nanook]

Only turreted weapons work. And yes, the Falcons were fully gunned, including turret, since I knew a turreted weapon was required. BTW, miners will still collect collectible ore even without a weapon. Or they're supposed to, anyway. But that's a different command, I believe.

Hmm, I just remembered. I'm running Gazz's MARS turret script. It's not installed or operating on the miner ships, but I wonder if there's not some underlying connection. It shouldn't make a difference, but I'll try starting a new game without it and see what happens. If it causes this issue, I'll have to ask Gazz about it in his S&M thread. Guess I'll put further discussion on hold until I know one way or the other.

[Alan Phipps]

Quick update. Stopped a mining Caravel and tried all sorts of different turret commands then reissued mining orders and mining always went ahead. Stopped Caravel, ejected all weapons and then after the usual mobile mining command, collecting of completely broken rocks went ahead. Nothing I do makes these Caravels stop delivering the goods (Bless 'em). OK, hear from you anon.

[simo98]

i just use the TLs themselves to mine

after stealing and selling about 15 from the paranid (complete with an array of stations that i have placed all over preists pity) i decided to start keeping them and using them to clear out sectors and improve my framerate

[Alan Phipps]

@ simo98: Sure that works OK. The reason I use ships homebased to the TL is that I have 12 ships mining per TL rather than just 1, that is 12 times the rate of production or clearance. One other thing, be very careful to check before going IS if you have more than one TL mining in the same sector. They may both go boom if you engage collision detection while they are getting stuck into the same outcrop of rocks.