TC Kills the power of my PC on startup! :'(

gamer993 · Post by **gamer993** » Thu, 18. Dec 08, 00:53

eladan wrote:I think you'll need to take your PC to someone with the ability to test it. There's only so much you can do on your own.

While I'd still rate the PSU high on my list of probable culprits, it's possible some other component is misfiring in a way that causes this. I can't say absolutely and definitely that a driver issue can't cause this, although I've not seen it happen myself, and it would have to be a rather unusual issue. There is absolutely no way the game can cause this, so you can rule it out immediately.

I had this happen to me once. It was my graphics card going. It started on one game (X3) Then it started to spread till I couldn't play any game. So I had to replace the GFX card so u could try that?

BeidAmmikon · Post by **BeidAmmikon** » Thu, 18. Dec 08, 16:12

eladan: While I'd still rate the PSU high on my list of probable culprits, it's possible some other component is misfiring in a way that causes this. I can't say absolutely and definitely that a driver issue can't cause this, although I've not seen it happen myself, and it would have to be a rather unusual issue. There is absolutely no way the game can cause this, so you can rule it out immediately

Oh but there is, as it happens to me also, with Reunion though. Either when the start menu is displayed, or in-game at random times. If I didn't love this game I'd give it up, but as such I cannot but acknowledge its apparently feeble graphics coding and aggressiveness towards our PCs, and enjoy it as I can. I wouldn't think that there might be a game out there that manages to stress the PC during its start sequence in such a way that it brings its power down. Please, no one knows everything, to rule out right from the start such reports just because doesn't have them, so the use of "absolutely" is by no means as just as one may think. Even if we're 3 users with this problem out of say 300000, and if this game is the only one that causes power loss out of say 5 games, then both gamers and developers have something to do. Something that for the gamers is quite obvious, ie renounce playing these games. Anyway, word is that TC is the last of the series, so the developers will also slide far from it soon.

zooze · Post by **zooze** » Thu, 18. Dec 08, 16:59

3dMark 06 is a pretty tough benchmark and stresses the PC, can you run this and report back on the results.

Its very unlikely that software would causes the machine to power down, unless it sends a signal to the BIOS ACPI interface to do so.

This is almost always a hardware failure of some type, and I would go for either the PSU or GFX.

The next step is to rule out X3 (this is where 3dmark 06 should help).

Zoozer

Geggo · Post by **Geggo** » Thu, 18. Dec 08, 18:45

3dmark 06 + prime95 on both cores would cause max load.

3dmark alone would test either gfx or cpu debending which test it's running at the time.

Legionnaire · Post by **Legionnaire** » Thu, 18. Dec 08, 19:15

if your looking at using prime 95 you want the multi core version if you have a multi core pc, its more effective than running multiple instances for multiple cores.

Legionnaire

eladan · Post by **eladan** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 00:09

BeidAmmikon wrote:
eladan: While I'd still rate the PSU high on my list of probable culprits, it's possible some other component is misfiring in a way that causes this. I can't say absolutely and definitely that a driver issue can't cause this, although I've not seen it happen myself, and it would have to be a rather unusual issue. There is absolutely no way the game can cause this, so you can rule it out immediately
Oh but there is, as it happens to me also, with Reunion though. Either when the start menu is displayed, or in-game at random times. If I didn't love this game I'd give it up, but as such I cannot but acknowledge its apparently feeble graphics coding and aggressiveness towards our PCs, and enjoy it as I can. I wouldn't think that there might be a game out there that manages to stress the PC during its start sequence in such a way that it brings its power down. Please, no one knows everything, to rule out right from the start such reports just because doesn't have them, so the use of "absolutely" is by no means as just as one may think. Even if we're 3 users with this problem out of say 300000, and if this game is the only one that causes power loss out of say 5 games, then both gamers and developers have something to do. Something that for the gamers is quite obvious, ie renounce playing these games. Anyway, word is that TC is the last of the series, so the developers will also slide far from it soon.

The reason I can rule it out absolutely (and I stand by that) is that the days are long gone where a game will directly communicate with PC components. While it used to be true in earlier OSs that a poorly written game could cause something like this, the OS these days buffers against a game directly interfering with hardware. The worst that could occur directly as a cause of a game fault is a CTD. Anything worse than that is certainly a system or driver problem - without a shadow of a doubt.

Rhelok · Post by **Rhelok** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 05:00

A single shot capacitor leading to your graphics card slot could cause a shutdown. A faulty capacitor on the graphic card itself could also cause a shutdown. Faulty RAM can cause a shutdown. Or maybe it is just a single line of the 20-24 pin mobo connector from the PSU that is causing it. The PSU is typically the common problem. It and optical drives fail faster than any other component. As an end user your only option is to replace parts until it works again. Testing equipment for any single component would cost you more than the whole computer.

Stop futzing around and get a beefier PSU to test with.

mcn1969 · Post by **mcn1969** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 12:32

I am not futzing around, I just can't afford a new PSU at the moment!

I ran Prime95 all night with no problems, it also seems that it uses multi-cored processors as standard! Still not tried 3DMark yet though, bet I will!

No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to replicate the problem except by loading TC, if it was the GFX card at fault I would have thought that the problem would show up in more graphically intense programs, but they may very well be better coded.

I will try a new PSU when finances allow, but for the time being the best cause of action seems to be not to play TC at all.

Just out of interest how many resources does the menu at the beginning of the game use anyway, I can’t imagine it uses enough to stress my PC to the point of the power dying instantly as soon as it is loaded. I would understand more if the game was to actually in play at the time of failure!

And for the record, it doesn’t power down, so it is unlikely there will ever be an entry in the Event Log, when it happens it is like the plug has been pulled!

Almost Tactful · Post by **Almost Tactful** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 13:00

EventHorizon wrote:
eladan wrote:TC is quite stressful on a PC, and will cause system components to work harder, resulting in a higher power draw from the PSU. If your PSU is borderline, it could be enough to push it into failure. You could test this theory by running some system stress test utility - it should be fairly easy to find one (free) via google.
eladan is spot on with that, there is also a chance to see exactly what is wrong by using a motherboard utility, specifically one that checks the voltages. The ATX specification allows for a rather significant variance in voltage (on the 3.3v, 5v and 12v rails), but it is very easy for a PSU to be pushed over...been there and done that. Just out of interest what PSU do you have?

This is true, my overclock is Prime95 24 hours stable......but in TC it fails

check RAM timings and loosen them up a bit. That stopped all problems for me

eladan · Post by **eladan** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 13:14

mcn1969 wrote:I will try a new PSU when finances allow

I still recommend you get your system tested by someone who has the knowledge and tools to diagnose what the real issue is. I'm not 100% sure that it is the PSU, and if it's not, then you've wasted your money. Given the things you've tried that haven't caused it to fail, I'm actually less inclined now to think it's the PSU - looks like it might be something a little more complex.

Legionnaire · Post by **Legionnaire** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 13:30

When it powers down after trying to start the splash screen/menu can you power it up immediately or does it take a little while before power is restored to the system?

Legionnaire

Geggo · Post by **Geggo** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 19:05

I was going to suggest changing the additional power cable going to the gfx card but then noticed that 8500 GT doesn't have connector for that.....

And furthermore that gfx card uses max 115 W under full load.

But if all that is coming from the pci-e connector no wonder you have problems, I don't know how high those are rated but some boards I have seen in dells have note "max 75 W" in them.

ps. you could try to start X3:TC in window, might use tad less power that way.

mcn1969 · Post by **mcn1969** » Fri, 19. Dec 08, 21:55

The local PC shop has a tester for the PSU when I can get around to pulling it and taking it in, probably sometime late next week.

I tried in windowed mode and dropped the resolution down, the same thing happens, and yes I can power up again straight away and the CPU temp is only 40°C so it isn’t a thermal issue.

I can’t find any info in the motherboard manual with regard to the power ratings for the PCIEX16 slot, but I really can’t see the GFX card being stressed just displaying the menu of TC, when I can play Far Cry 2 with the settings high with no problem at all.

zooze · Post by **zooze** » Sat, 20. Dec 08, 00:11

Does your motherboard have the latest BIOS? if you dont know how to check or flash your BIOS I would let someone do it who does. I doubt it will solve the problem but is just rules that out.

Zoozer

avejas · Post by **avejas** » Sat, 20. Dec 08, 10:28

Hi all.

I had similar problem. and it is was PSU problem.

You can check what recommended minimum PSU do you need at Asus support.
I had 470W PSU and its works great at almost all games. But doesn't work TC.
After few days test i decide to make some upgrade

I had old 300W ATX PSU in addition. so i connect all my HDD and DVD (4 unit) to this PSU and CPU (AMD x2 5200+), MB, 9800GT to second 470W PSU. And system reborn. No crashes, blue screens.

mcn1969 · Post by **mcn1969** » Sat, 20. Dec 08, 13:43

zooze wrote:Does your motherboard have the latest BIOS? if you dont know how to check or flash your BIOS I would let someone do it who does. I doubt it will solve the problem but is just rules that out.

Zoozer

I would have to dig out an old floppy drive cause I my system doesn't have one, but I could try and flash the bios. I have done so a few times in the past, the first time is always the most scarey!

You would think if TC was so fussy about the PSU it would be on the system requirements!

Legionnaire · Post by **Legionnaire** » Sat, 20. Dec 08, 15:39

A lot of current Bios no longer need floppies to flash them and can actually be done inside windows, scary i know. As for PSU, its not the sort of thing that can be added to a system reccomendation really, as like all other hardware, there are so many variables. However just like a lot of out of the box pc's dont have a graphics card really capable of gaming, a lot of those same systems have a psu that is fine for most things, but may be near the limit of the hardware, and as soon as a gaming card is put inside it tips the system over to instability, which however may not be noticed for a month, six months, a year until something is bought that fully taxes every part of the system. I ended up having to build myself a replacement budget system earlier this year, due to a progresive degradation of my old system. Random games stopped running as well as they used to, i was having crashes, blue screens, lockups, X3:Reunion, and Crysis would run fine without problems, but things Like WOW, and Rome and Mafia , barely ran at all, i borrowed replacement RAM, swapped vid cards, Optical Drives, bought a new HDD swapped PSU cleaned and reapplied Thermal paste to CPU fan completely stripped down and rebuilt the pc, cleaning each and every part, checked cables for damage, and reinstalled windows about 6 times, total effect on the issue, nothing, Reunion speeded up a frame or two WOW stayed at 1FPS no matter where i was or how many people were about. Once i built the new pc, i tested the Drives, theyre fine, cpu has been tested in another machine, its fine same with every other component. Every component tests fine when taken on its own, but put it all together and in some things performance drops through the floor. Guess what im saying is that every rig has its own set of tolerances, and it will behave perfectly up to that point, but as soon as it finds something that stresses it too much , you start getting random totally indescribable behaviour. As for my old PC my gut instinct is that its the Mobo failing, but it was 4 years old had been running approx 18-20 hours a day avg for those 4 years, and if i see a cheap AGP equivalent i might buy it to satisfy curiousity, but now current one is running, its not that important.

Legionnaire

mcn1969 · Post by **mcn1969** » Thu, 14. May 09, 19:03

It's definatley not the PSU, I finally got around to getting a bigger PSU (750w) and still get the same thing.
I guess I'll have to wipe my hdd and re-install windows

frymaster · Post by **frymaster** » Thu, 14. May 09, 19:14

have you tested the RAM? If you're on vista you can test it from the boot menu, otherwise use the boot CD you can get from http://www.memtest.org/

mcn1969 · Post by **mcn1969** » Fri, 15. May 09, 13:08

The RAM was both tested and swapped out early on.
I regret ever buying this game!
I really don't want to spend too much time trying to load it because of the damage being caused to my HDD!
I might try again when I swap out my mobo later in the year, or I might just throw the game in the bin and never buy another egosoft product!

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

TC Kills the power of my PC on startup! :'(