X: Beyond the Frontier - why not make it free?

[Aro]

Yeah, BTF would need a few bug fixes if it were re-released.

Though oddly, X2 is available for free download and play. Fully legit it seems too.

[CBJ]

...but there's nothing illegal about downloading 'freeware', surely?

If it has been declared freeware by the copyright owner then obviously it's not a problem, but you'll find that very few commercial games have (some of the early Battlecruiser games have, for example). People thinking that something should be free isn't the same thing, and sadly that's where the problems start.

[Vitez]

Ahh, CBJ, my hero!
Come on: can't you guys (who whe truly love ) do something about it? Talk to THQ or something?

Pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaseeee?!

[CBJ]

As already explained, Egosoft has no say in the matter. THQ has issued budget versions of the old games a couple of times over the years, and whether they do so again is entirely up to them. I somehow doubt they would suddenly start giving it away though, as that would be effectively throwing away a potential source of income, albeit a small one.

[Vitez]

...as that would be effectively throwing away a potential source of income, albeit a small one.

Yeah, a really small one, since there are the good guys (like me), who would like to get the game but can't so they just wait, and the inpatient good guys who download it.

a potential source of income

Wait a minute..... what income? I haven't seen a single shop in years that sells X-BTF and X-T. Buying it second hand won't make profit from them either, nor downloading it. Man, if they are thinking like this, they are crazy The only potential is to re-release it.

Oh, and who's the wiseguy who voted "None"???

[CBJ]

As I said, they have issued it a couple of times on budget labels. It was available, new, from Amazon until only a few months ago.

But really, what is your point? It is their product and they have the right to do what they like with it. If they decide to stick it in a cupboard and never sell any more copies of it again then that's their choice.

[eladan]

Wait a minute..... what income? I haven't seen a single shop in years that sells X-BTF and X-T. Buying it second hand won't make profit from them either, nor downloading it. Man, if they are thinking like this, they are crazy The only potential is to re-release it.

It's more about what they might do with it, rather than what they are doing with it now. Just because it isn't currently in the shops doesn't mean that it won't be in the future.

There is one scenario I can think of which would make it valuable for them to keep hold of it - X anthology anyone? You lose selling points of an anthology if some are already available free.

[philip_hughes]

Yep. If I wrote a book and then never published it, that would be my right. Similarly if I bought the rights to a show and never screened it, that would be my right too.

Jane Austin is long dead. Do you think the book "Emma" is going to be free anytime soon?

Oh crap. this is a space forum isn't it.... Um.... Douglas Adams is dead. Dou you think Hitchikers guide to the galaxy is going to be free? No. Its intellectual property and as such the writer or the person who has bought the rights can do what they please with it.

[eladan]

Yep. If I wrote a book and then never published it, that would be my right. Similarly if I bought the rights to a show and never screened it, that would be my right too.

What we're talking about here is copyright. And while you hold copyright, yes, you are within your rights to do what you want with it. The above examples would be considered by some (with reasonable justification) to be abuse of copyright though.

Jane Austin is long dead. Do you think the book "Emma" is going to be free anytime soon?

Um, yes. I imagine that Jane Austin books would be in the public domain by now. What you are (should be, at least) paying for these days would be the printing costs.

[philip_hughes]

Yep. If I wrote a book and then never published it, that would be my right. Similarly if I bought the rights to a show and never screened it, that would be my right too.

What we're talking about here is copyright. And while you hold copyright, yes, you are within your rights to do what you want with it. The above examples would be considered by some (with reasonable justification) to be abuse of copyright though.

Its done with tv shows all the time.

As for public domain.... Do the words "walt disney" have any meaning for you?

[Usenko]

There are two forms of intellectual property - Patent and Copyright.

Once a patent has lapsed, it cannot be renewed. Copyright, however, can be renewed as many times as the owner (be it a person, a company or an estate) deems appropriate.

A lot of people get confused and think that with the passage of time, copyright automatically becomes public domain, but it does not. As long as there is an estate making money out of a copyright it may be renewed. So whilst I don't know the particulars of the Jane Austin case, it is certainly possible that the copyright is current to her estate.

It is however unlikely, not for legal reasons but for practical reasons. Probably by now Jane Austen's estate is sufficiently diluted (and has few enough people with direct interests in it) that no-one could be bothered renewing the rights.

Does anyone have a current copy to check?

In any case, I doubt that any computer games written have even reached the point of a copyright lapsing. In Australia a copyright must be renewed after 50 years, and I'm guessing it works the same way in other jurisdictions.

[eladan]

As for public domain.... Do the words "walt disney" have any meaning for you?

I find it curious that a cartoon rodent has been the overriding motivator for copyright reform for the world (US directly, rest of the world through treaties/lobbying) in recent times. Somewhat disturbing, also...

Once a patent has lapsed, it cannot be renewed. Copyright, however, can be renewed as many times as the owner (be it a person, a company or an estate) deems appropriate.

Are you sure? I thought copyright was also fixed (well, as fixed as it can be with it being extended by law all the time...) - I did do a search, but can't find any evidence that you can purchase extensions.

You are correct for games - none of the games ever written are anywhere near out of copyright yet. So, as far as this thread goes, copyright is a non-issue.

[Vitez]

Wait a minute..... what income? I haven't seen a single shop in years that sells X-BTF and X-T. Buying it second hand won't make profit from them either, nor downloading it. Man, if they are thinking like this, they are crazy The only potential is to re-release it.

There is one scenario I can think of which would make it valuable for them to keep hold of it - X anthology anyone?

There's going to be an X-anthology??? Yeppeeee!!!
Ok, back to reality: if there would be something like this, it would (again) only be in german I guess, just like the special editions (wich I am still mad of).

[The Wolf]

There is one scenario I can think of which would make it valuable for them to keep hold of it - X anthology anyone? You lose selling points of an anthology if some are already available free.

Unfortunately that would probably never happen. Look at the Childs play series of movies. You'll find that every collection currently released is missing Childs play 1. Why? Childs play 2 through Seed of Chucky is owned by Universal, while childs play 1 is owned by MGM/20th century fox. While a complete collection would be nice for the consumer, neither company wants to play nice with eachother. Perhaps MGM wants too large of a royalty for leasing out CP1 to universal for a complete collection, maybe neither side feels it's worth the trouble of writing up a joint contract to make it happen, who knows.

You wanting X-BTF shows that there is a demand. IF the demand is great enough to warrant breaking out the master and stamping a few discs, maybe even working with the game to allow it to work properly on new systems, maybe then they'll re-release it.
Look at Sierra and their Quest series of adventure games (Kings Quest, Space Quest, Police quest, Leisure suit larry)
Had they released these titles previously, they wouldn't have been able to sell the collections.

What would be nice is an active body in the gaming world that would seek out the current owners of old game copyrights to see if the owner might be interested in releasing their oldies for free, or even producing a compilation disc. People such as now defunct publishers or developers that haven't been bought up by someone, or maybe even current publishers who have inherited the copyrights of past publishers through mergers and takeovers, but might not realize that there is a demand for their old and forgotten titles.

Some companies have been re-releasing their classics though. look up complilations by Atari, Namco, Capcom, EA, SNK ect. Who would have thought they'd be playing games like Lunar lander on their PCs nearly 30 years from when it was first released? Well, now you can thanks to Atari:
[ external image ]

[Vitez]

There is one scenario I can think of which would make it valuable for them to keep hold of it - X anthology anyone? You lose selling points of an anthology if some are already available free.

Unfortunately that would probably never happen. Look at the Childs play series of movies. You'll find that every collection currently released is missing Childs play 1. Why? Childs play 2 through Seed of Chucky is owned by Universal, while childs play 1 is owned by MGM/20th century fox. While a complete collection would be nice for the consumer, neither company wants to play nice with eachother. Perhaps MGM wants too large of a royalty for leasing out CP1 to universal for a complete collection, maybe neither side feels it's worth the trouble of writing up a joint contract to make it happen, who knows.

You wanting X-BTF shows that there is a demand. IF the demand is great enough to warrant breaking out the master and stamping a few discs, maybe even working with the game to allow it to work properly on new systems, maybe then they'll re-release it.
Look at Sierra and their Quest series of adventure games (Kings Quest, Space Quest, Police quest, Leisure suit larry)
Had they released these titles previously, they wouldn't have been able to sell the collections.

What would be nice is an active body in the gaming world that would seek out the current owners of old game copyrights to see if the owner might be interested in releasing their oldies for free, or even producing a compilation disc. People such as now defunct publishers or developers that haven't been bought up by someone, or maybe even current publishers who have inherited the copyrights of past publishers through mergers and takeovers, but might not realize that there is a demand for their old and forgotten titles.

Some companies have been re-releasing their classics though. look up complilations by Atari, Namco, Capcom, EA, SNK ect. Who would have thought they'd be playing games like Lunar lander on their PCs nearly 30 years from when it was first released? Well, now you can thanks to Atari:
[ external image ]

You took the words right out of my mouth

[Usenko]

I thought that I must admit that my information was faulty. My understanding of copyright was based on my year 7 history teacher. It would appear that she was incorrect! In fact, Australian law (like pretty much the rest of the world) has copyright lasting the lifetime of the author plus seventy years. Sorry everyone!

Patent is apparently a fixed term of 20 years.

[frymaster]

the results of this poll surprise and astound me

THQ have some games on steam - you'd have more chance of sucess if you asked THQ to stick X:BTW and X:T up there at a budget price.

It's even possible valve could do a package deal with the other X games and split the profits accordingly

[cale_online]

i've got x:btf, and x2( tho i never played it!) but not x:t (waiting for x3 to arrive!) it'd be nice to see what x:t has to offer seems i cant get it anywhere but e-bay.. lol

even better, remake x:btf/t on the new x3 engine

i still remember wizzing that cool lookin ship you get lumbered with on x:btf around all over the place cos i loved the graphics.. back then.. lol
never finished that game tho, kept getting stuck on the story, then i'd get bored of making money, then i'd go play somethin else.. lol
didnt help that i got that game at the same time as i-war, which had a much faster game pace n story, shame that doesnt work on xp... i miss that game too!

[Nanook]

i've got x:btf, and x2( tho i never played it!) but not x:t (waiting for x3 to arrive!) it'd be nice to see what x:t has to offer...

X-Tension was the true precursor to X2 and X3. The gameplay of X-BTF was quite a bit different. X-T was the first to allow owning and flying multiple ships, and the first to, eventually, allow ownership of capital ships (TL's). X-BTF only allowed true ownership of your starting ship, which could be massively upgraded, for a price. It was also the first to have non-plot missions available.

[frymaster]

X-BTF is the reason you get ecliptic projectors and suchlike Your character started the game with no knowledge of the universe whatever (He came from Earth in a mishap while testing an experimental jumpdrive - the reverse engineering of which is how the X-universe developed _their_ jumpdrives_), 100 credits, minimal shields, and not much else. Without a duplex or triplex scanner an ecliptic projector was a pretty good low-cost way of keeping your bearings and trying to find stations in a sector.