X-Verse Fleet Fest I

BeidAmmikon · Post by **BeidAmmikon** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 10:38

I would most probably want to use 2 M2s, or 3 M7s.
I mean, what's a space battle without 2 capital ships on at least one side...

imperium3 · Post by **imperium3** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 12:10

Generally I prefer the cash-based system but with a couple of reservations:

With the exception of a few obvious issues (Solano) the prices of the fighter craft seem to me to be well-balanced as to power vs effectiveness. Sure, a lot of people seem to like the Falcon Hauler but it is fairly costly, and isn't the be-all and end-all ship. The glaring problem is that under the current system, M1s are the most expensive class around, when all they provide is a ton of hangar spaces and a few FAA that will run out of energy quite soon. And so the Panther has become really popular as it is the only reasonably priced carrier. Also M2s seem a bit pricey for what they are.

So what I'd suggest is the original cash-based system, but with a few modifications to suit balancing only. For example, M1 prices could be halved so they are only slightly more expensive than M7s (perhaps a bit more once weapons are paid for, but this is made up for by lots of hangar space). Maybe M2 prices could be reduced by a 3/4 factor too, so as to balance them up.

The main reasons that I think we should stick with a cash system are:

1. Though the balancing may be a bit off sometimes because it was not intended for staged battles, it is still likely better than any points system we could devise given the time that likely went into us.

2. Complex points systems would deter newcomers from XFF2, whereas if it's the same or similar prices they're used to from the game, then it would be much more approachable.

3. There aren't actually many ships that are terribly unbalanced under this system, whereas if we use points then the M3/M4/M6 etc to use is always the BEST one rather than the most cost-effective... and then fleets would become much more similar, which is of course bad.

NUKLEAR-SLUG · Post by **NUKLEAR-SLUG** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 12:43

imperium3 wrote: 2. Complex points systems would deter newcomers from XFF2, whereas if it's the same or similar prices they're used to from the game, then it would be much more approachable.

3. There aren't actually many ships that are terribly unbalanced under this system, whereas if we use points then the M3/M4/M6 etc to use is always the BEST one rather than the most cost-effective... and then fleets would become much more similar, which is of course bad.

It's only complex if you make it complex. Currently if you want to equip a few fighters you have to lookup the price of the hull, work out price for shielding, figure out price for guns, add on cost for software extensions... I'm not seeing how that is in any way less complex than being told you have 50 points to play with and each fighter is 1 point as that simply becomes a question then of deciding how many you would like. You can't really get much easier than that.

There will always be a BEST ship no matter what way you work things out. If everyone was to pick their fleets purely on a most cost-effective solution XFF1 would have ended up with 32 Solano spam fleets. As you say, the Falcon Hauler is quite popular for exactly the same reason, it combines M3 price with low end M6 shielding. Fortunately people around here were a little more creative than that and that's all you can ever hope for.

As for reducing capital prices down, well yes you could do that, but then you're not really following the cash price system. Instead you're creating a new system and if you're going to restructure the costs system then you might as well make it as simple as possible. The only thing really different in that idea is I'm suggesting using smaller numbers.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 14:47

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:As you say, the Falcon Hauler is quite popular for exactly the same reason, it combines M3 price with low end M6 shielding.

Not for me anymore. The Nova Raider seems in my eyes now far better. Except it can't use heavy nukes (at least nukes that are allowed), it's cheap, fast, well armed and has fair shields. But it's simply not the deadliest M3. The Solano on the other hand is the cheapest, best shielded and almost the fastest ship of its class. There is no M4+ ship to counter it. However, if you cripple the Solano a bit (25MJ shielding, <190 speed) things would look somehow different.

stemardue · Post by **stemardue** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 16:26

doh... seen the video of my fleet battle ^^ - poor Katanas. They just made for some nice explosions.

I'm sad to see that of all the missiles i had loaded, only a very minimal part was used... maybe 1%

Anyway good to know for the next FF - mass drivers all the way ^^

And thanks again to all who made this possible

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 17:35

I know just how well banning works, which is to say badly. All I want are limits.

Look, one on one, an M2 beats an M1 everytime. But filled with it's capacity of fighters, most M1's will tromp all over M2's of the same race. One Collosus full of Nova's will mash a Titan.

imperium3 · Post by **imperium3** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 18:38

Triaxx2 wrote:
Look, one on one, an M2 beats an M1 everytime. But filled with it's capacity of fighters, most M1's will tromp all over M2's of the same race. One Collosus full of Nova's will mash a Titan.

I don't doubt that but the trouble is, that said Colossus full of Novas likely costs more than 2 M2s. And in XFF1 barely anyone went for an M1 because they are so horrible cost-ineffective when you can just get TMs and have lots of extra fighters, or use Panthers which are much cheaper and have more firepower.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 19:31

True. That's not the point though. The point is that just about any combination can be over powered if you think your way through it. That same M2, mounted with all the flak it can hold could just as likely crush those Nova's.

Interesting thought. While the AI doesn't use missiles if it has guns, does it use them when that's all the fighter has? If so, then filling it with Wasp armed Discoverers is much cheaper and probably at least as effective. Sheer weight of numbers should win out over the turrets...

So you see my point.

Panther's don't have the shielding you get with an M1.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sun, 25. Jul 10, 20:25

Triaxx2 wrote:If so, then filling it with Wasp armed Discoverers is much cheaper and probably at least as effective.

It probably would if the ordinary Discoverer could fire Wasps

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Mon, 26. Jul 10, 04:07

Personally don't much like the idea of XFF2 being points based. Would much prefer a cash based system with strict limits on fleet size & composition (e.g. mandatory M1 or M2 flagship) to discourage fighter spam.

Gavrushka · Post by **Gavrushka** » Mon, 26. Jul 10, 06:21

GCU Grey Area wrote:Personally don't much like the idea of XFF2 being points based. Would much prefer a cash based system with strict limits on fleet size & composition (e.g. mandatory M1 or M2 flagship) to discourage fighter spam.

This gets my vote.

We'll never all agree on a system, or even whittle it down to a shortlist of 746 systems so I guess TJ, (who is re-uploading the Video from the Gavrushka match as I write this, erm isn't he

) will have to run the role of Dictator and tell us how it will be. - I am happy with this.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Tue, 27. Jul 10, 15:47

GCU Grey Area wrote:Would much prefer a cash based system with strict limits on fleet size & composition (e.g. mandatory M1 or M2 flagship) to discourage fighter spam.

Wouldn't go that far. When fielding something that big would discourage people to field M6. There are enough ships banned by the rules. I think it would suffice to set a ship cap lower than 100 to prevent spams. Nerving the Solano and Springblossom would probably suffice to get people to consider different ships.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Tue, 27. Jul 10, 16:18

That might work if we gave out a free capital. So far most of the capitals better than M7's have shown up as useless.

travisdh1 · Post by **travisdh1** » Tue, 27. Jul 10, 16:26

GCU Grey Area wrote:Personally don't much like the idea of XFF2 being points based. Would much prefer a cash based system with strict limits on fleet size & composition (e.g. mandatory M1 or M2 flagship) to discourage fighter spam.

As one of the people working on an easier to use calculator I have to say that a cash based system is easier to work with just because we already have all the information in a nice spreadsheet/program. Adding a limit to the number of ships would also be quick'n easy while a points based system would require the reworking of, well, everything.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Tue, 27. Jul 10, 17:04

travisdh1 wrote:As one of the people working on an easier to use calculator I have to say that a cash based system is easier to work with just because we already have all the information in a nice spreadsheet/program. Adding a limit to the number of ships would also be quick'n easy while a points based system would require the reworking of, well, everything.

And other player for XFF2 will see things easier; they know at least roughly what ships cost. This isn't meant for those people in XFF1 only. Remember TJs plans? 64 fleets in XFF2?

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Tue, 27. Jul 10, 17:22

64 fleets in XFF2?

He better hurry up then!

Wow,W7 onscreen keyboard has a predictive bar!

BeidAmmikon · Post by **BeidAmmikon** » Sat, 31. Jul 10, 15:47

The Italians have started their own Fleet Fest.

I hope for an international competition, may the best script selection win!

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Sat, 31. Jul 10, 16:37

That's nice, but isn't it pretty obvious that this one is, well, 'stopped until further notice permanently'?

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Sat, 31. Jul 10, 22:41

Or whenever TJ gets back from wherever it was this time...

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Sun, 1. Aug 10, 04:22

BeidAmmikon wrote:I hope for an international competition, may the best script selection win!

Well, when they have their first fleet posted I start to believe it; heck, maybe I'd post one of my candidates for XFF2, just for the fun. Well, hoe much Italian can I say: Sono tedesco... Spaghetti... Pizza... er, OK, that's pretty the whole lot...
Heck, with a tool that can translate my fleet to Italian

I could have go at this

Haven't much to do here anyway anymore with a defeated fleet

Why not have some fun with our Italian friends?

Ciao bella!!

@BeidAmmikon:
How many languages do you speak anyway?

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X-Verse Fleet Fest I