News: X3:TC Update 1.4 now available for download

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

Pointing out that you're effectively cheating is whining and disparages others? Uh-huh.

Your excuse is 'because you can'. And you've already thought about how to still cheat in the event a version check is added.

But that's okay, because other people should cheat as well!

I don't see how using an unmodified, released version of the game, that every single X3TC owner has complete access to can be considered "cheating". And I think the fact that I am completely open about what I'm doing so that others can choose to do the same if they want is anything but honest and upstanding.

It's not like X3TC is the only piece of software in the world that has gotten at least partially "worse" with later versions. Lots of people are staying with XP instead of Vista - is that "cheating"?

BTW, as any idiot could figure out, there is a very simple way to force "current" version stats - just have the game itself upload the stats, and remove the upload page from the web site.

[Carlo the Curious]

I don't see how using an unmodified, released version of the game, that every single X3TC owner has complete access to can be considered "cheating". And I think the fact that I am completely open about what I'm doing so that others can choose to do the same if they want is anything but honest and upstanding.

You're exploiting the differences between versions to give yourself an advantage over people who don't. Yes, I'd call that cheating.

The fact that you admit to doing it doesn't alter that.

It's not like X3TC is the only piece of software in the world that has gotten at least partially "worse" with later versions. Lots of people are staying with XP instead of Vista - is that "cheating"?

It might be, if you were 'comparing your success' in driver crashes or similar. Except you're not, so it's not really relevant.

BTW, as any idiot could figure out, there is a very simple way to force "current" version stats - just have the game itself upload the stats, and remove the upload page from the web site.

So, as I said earlier: Your reason for cheating is that you're not prevented from cheating?

I guess I should change a few files to spawn myself a new station with 2 billion credits in it every time I kill a ship - after all, you can, so it's fair, right?

[lupoluke]

Pointing out that you're effectively cheating is whining and disparages others? Uh-huh.

Your excuse is 'because you can'. And you've already thought about how to still cheat in the event a version check is added.

But that's okay, because other people should cheat as well!

I don't see how using an unmodified, released version of the game, that every single X3TC owner has complete access to can be considered "cheating". And I think the fact that I am completely open about what I'm doing so that others can choose to do the same if they want is anything but honest and upstanding.

It's not like X3TC is the only piece of software in the world that has gotten at least partially "worse" with later versions. Lots of people are staying with XP instead of Vista - is that "cheating"?

BTW, as any idiot could figure out, there is a very simple way to force "current" version stats - just have the game itself upload the stats, and remove the upload page from the web site.

[Sorry for the off topic but this is stronger than me]

Intelligence is a rare gift...
definitly

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

Intelligence is a rare gift...
definitly

Apparently, spelling is a rare gift as well...

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

You're exploiting the differences between versions to give yourself an advantage over people who don't. Yes, I'd call that cheating.

The fact that you admit to doing it doesn't alter that.

So, would it still be "cheating" if I had gotten all my money and kills before v1.4 was even released? What if I had innocently not checked for updates until now?

Some people had v1.4 crash for them, where v1.3 runs fine. Are these people "cheating" too?

I'm sorry, but your conclusion to call it cheating just doesn't hold up to even the simplest logic, in my humble opinion. I think we should just agree to disagree, my friend.

So, as I said earlier: Your reason for cheating is that you're not prevented from cheating?

I guess I should change a few files to spawn myself a new station with 2 billion credits in it every time I kill a ship - after all, you can, so it's fair, right?

My reason for running v1.3 is because the patrol mission rewards are higher. And yes, I'm not prevented from running v1.3, nor is anyone prevented from running any version of X3TC that they may decide to run.

I don't think you can modify game files to do what you state without getting the *modified* tag on your game, which makes you ineligible for the leaderboards. Even if you can, I would be inclined to call that cheating, since you're running a version of the game that is modified and different than what EGOSOFT has published. That is not true of the game I run - complete stock, unmodified, X3TC v1.3.

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

In other news, I can report that having reached the combat rank of HERO in 1.3 killing an M2 in a patrol mission nets 30 million credits. I managed to get over a billion credits in a single mission. I don't stack missions any more since I would probably overflow the 2 billion credit limit if I did that, even starting with 0 credits in my account!

[eladan]

So, would it still be "cheating" if I had gotten all my money and kills before v1.4 was even released? What if I had innocently not checked for updates until now?

While I would agree with you that you are not technically cheating, as you are playing within the rules, even you must admit that the rules in this case are seriously broken. That being the case, this can certainly be called an exploit if it isn't called cheating.

I agree with Nanook though - I have never been able to see the point of the stats upload. Seems clear to me that with these sorts of exploits possible in TC that the virtue of being on top of whatever stat is even more dubious than it used to be. However, if that's what floats your boat, you're welcome to it.

[strude]

So, would it still be "cheating" if I had gotten all my money and kills before v1.4 was even released? What if I had innocently not checked for updates until now?

While I would agree with you that you are not technically cheating, as you are playing within the rules, even you must admit that the rules in this case are seriously broken. That being the case, this can certainly be called an exploit if it isn't called cheating.

I agree with Nanook though - I have never been able to see the point of the stats upload. Seems clear to me that with these sorts of exploits possible in TC that the virtue of being on top of whatever stat is even more dubious than it used to be. However, if that's what floats your boat, you're welcome to it.

I'm not sure it could be called cheating either, but it certainly isn't a fair comparison, and as such holds no value in my eyes. On a related note, as a Steam user, now that I have upgraded to V1.4, I can't go back to previous version, and therefore I don't have access to the opportunity to clock up stats in previous versions.
Personally I don't care as I play modified, but I can still understand those who would like to upload stats and see how they compare. However the current system would allow me to drive 2 kms to a bus stop, then catch the bus for 28kms and claim that my car is more efficient than some other car that actually drove 30kms because my car used less petrol. It's just not a fair comparison, and as such what's the point of comparing?

[Graphil]

I guess the big question is when 2.0 comes out whether people will still be willing to stay on 1.3 and miss out on all the new stuff? If they won't then this all becomes a moot point.

[pjknibbs]

I agree with Nanook though - I have never been able to see the point of the stats upload. Seems clear to me that with these sorts of exploits possible in TC that the virtue of being on top of whatever stat is even more dubious than it used to be. However, if that's what floats your boat, you're welcome to it.

In X3R and X2, where the stats upload was part of the final patches for the game and so there was no rebalancing going on, exploits like this weren't possible--it WAS a level playing field. In addition, I don't recall any major changes to the rewards available in X3R the way we've had in X3TC. Therefore, the stats upload was an OK idea in the earlier games, but I fear it's irretrievably broken in X3TC now.

[eladan]

In X3R and X2, where the stats upload was part of the final patches for the game and so there was no rebalancing going on, exploits like this weren't possible--it WAS a level playing field.

Except that there's nothing stopping someone from playing on whichever patch they want and only installing the last when they want to upload.

I don't recall there being any serious balance issues which would have made one patch play much easier than another on those games, though.

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

So, would it still be "cheating" if I had gotten all my money and kills before v1.4 was even released? What if I had innocently not checked for updates until now?

While I would agree with you that you are not technically cheating, as you are playing within the rules, even you must admit that the rules in this case are seriously broken. That being the case, this can certainly be called an exploit if it isn't called cheating.

I would say that what is "broken" is the patrol mission rewards in v1.4 (which is why I'm staying with v1.3). Why nerf the patrols but leave the station defense and Xenon Invasion missions the same??

I agree with Nanook though - I have never been able to see the point of the stats upload. Seems clear to me that with these sorts of exploits possible in TC that the virtue of being on top of whatever stat is even more dubious than it used to be. However, if that's what floats your boat, you're welcome to it.

Again I ask, how does the reward value have anything to do with the stat I'm going for - ship kills? Oh right, it doesn't. Especially since I already had a fully-kitted Osaka before v1.3 was even released and that's pretty much all I ever fly these days.

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

I'm not sure it could be called cheating either, but it certainly isn't a fair comparison, and as such holds no value in my eyes. On a related note, as a Steam user, now that I have upgraded to V1.4, I can't go back to previous version, and therefore I don't have access to the opportunity to clock up stats in previous versions.

Strude, I'm a Steam user too, and I upgraded BOTH my computers that run Steam/X3TC to v1.4 and was able to successfully back out both to v1.3. All you need to do is borrow a DVD copy of X3TC, install the patches to v1.3, and then copy all of that EXCEPT the .exe file over to your steam install. Steam will then run at v1.3 (after you tell it NOT to update your games!). I've been running with this reverted patch for months, no troubles at all. So yes, you have just as much opportunity to back out as I did.

I suppose maybe you don't have access to borrow a perfectly legal DVD copy like I do, but if you PM me I could help you with that too... (and I'm not talking about any illegal activities here - we all know that's not allowed, so moderators, don't even bother).

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

I guess the big question is when 2.0 comes out whether people will still be willing to stay on 1.3 and miss out on all the new stuff? If they won't then this all becomes a moot point.

I plan on running v1.3 until I have so many credits that I'd never be able to spend them all usefully... goal is 200 billion, at which point I'll upgrade to the latest version regardless of whether or not the patrol mission rewards are still nerfed.

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

In X3R and X2, where the stats upload was part of the final patches for the game and so there was no rebalancing going on, exploits like this weren't possible--it WAS a level playing field.

Except that there's nothing stopping someone from playing on whichever patch they want and only installing the last when they want to upload.

It's even easier than that - just install X3TC twice and patch one but not the other. This requires two computers if you have the Steam flavor, but that's pretty common these days anyway. Then just copy your saves over each time you want to upload.

[CBJ]

That's four posts in a row from you, which is not good forum etiquette. Next time, how about using one post eh?

With regard to the subject in hand, whatever name you give it, picking and choosing which version to run in order to give you an advantage in the rankings runs contrary to the spirit of the whole thing. Most people who use the UPLINK do so for fun and to compare their progress with that of other like-minded players, not to see who can find the biggest loophole to get their name to the top of the list. We've made every effort to prevent people from wrecking the rankings by outright cheating, but obviously there's no way to prevent people doing what you have done. If you choose to make use of version differences to get your name nearer the top of the list then nobody can stop you, but don't expect others to feel the same way you do about it.

[Nova Scotia]

When someone post his or her stats that were not achieved by constant saving and reloading ,than the stats will have meaning IMHO

[WarpedcowOwnzU]

When someone post his or her stats that were not achieved by constant saving and reloading ,than the stats will have meaning IMHO

What on earth are you talking about?

That's four posts in a row from you, which is not good forum etiquette. Next time, how about using one post eh?

I was replying to four different people about four different things. It makes it less messy for each of them to reply back to me if there are seperate posts IMHO. At least that's what we prefer on the Trackpedia.com forums where I'm a moderator...

However as you can see, I'll play nice by your rules if you want...

If you choose to make use of version differences to get your name nearer the top of the list then nobody can stop you, but don't expect others to feel the same way you do about it.

I don't expect others to feel the same way. I fully expect lots of whining and cries of "cheating" from the losers out there...

[CBJ]

Since you're going to "play nice by our rules", you can also stop calling people who disagree with you "losers".

[lupoluke]

Sorry to ask but: does pacth 2.0 improve performance?