Trump Presidency

[clakclak]

~ And the UK will likely join the US. messy, very, very messy.

I really dont want the UK getting involved in anything this clown does.
Just 1 UK residents opinion, but I reckon its more common than I know.

If you join it will quite the Deja Vú. Certainly worked great the last time around.

[chew-ie]

This attack by the US against Iran? That is a Pearl Harbor moment. Whether you love Iran or hate it, we were not at war against Iran. We made no declaration of war. We attacked them out of the blue.

Agreed. It's neither justified nor something important right now. There are more pressing domestic matters which need to be adressed, not yet another war to distract from the own problems @home. Let Israel and Iran do their thing if they must, but the US shouldn't toy around here.

~ And the UK will likely join the US. messy, very, very messy.

I really dont want the UK getting involved in anything this clown does.
Just 1 UK residents opinion, but I reckon its more common than I know.

If you join it will quite the Deja Vú. Certainly worked great the last time around.

IMHO Starmer has to play nice here to not endanger their new trade deal with the US. At least that's my personal opinion after "reading" his body language after clumsy TACO let drop the deal papers while babbling non-sense. IMHO that situation took a lot of restraint to not burst out in laughter. Same with the Iran situation. To me it's just some diplomatic mumbo-jumbo on auto as I really can't see UK getting really involved here. TBH I'd rather have them send all their surplus weaponary to Ukraine instead of wasting lifes in Iran.

[Vertigo 7]

This is GOP 101. They need a boogeyman to point at and say "look over there!" while they're busy screwing over the low and middle class and/or screwing children. So while they're busy rounding up all the Latino and Hispanic people they can find here, they've kicked over a hornet's nest on the other side of the planet with a non-white nation to keep the maga freaks frothing at the mouth.

[Falcrack]

Iran may decide as a result of this strike to officially pull out of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, and openly declare the intention to produce nuclear weapons. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. Why should the US and Israel be allowed nuclear weapons, while Iran is denied them? I don't see Israel or the US as being morally superior to Iran. Speaking as a US citizen here.

The attack by Israel and the US on Iran gave Iran full justification to withdraw from this treaty. Nations of idiots have elected idiotic rulers.

[Chips]

Iran may decide as a result of this strike to officially pull out of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, and openly declare the intention to produce nuclear weapons. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. Why should the US and Israel be allowed nuclear weapons, while Iran is denied them? I don't see Israel or the US as being morally superior to Iran. Speaking as a US citizen here.

The attack by Israel and the US on Iran gave Iran full justification to withdraw from this treaty. Nations of idiots have elected idiotic rulers.

That takes a significant assumption that they weren't in violation of the treaty already.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3v6w2qr12o

Oh apparently they were. Of course, you can point out who the countries are who would determine that, but it's still based on the IAEA's findings.

As for Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructi ... ian_policy



There's an, admittedly, Jewish based page which documents the political and military saying Israel should be destroyed by nuclear means, or other, on a yearly basis; including military parades featuring banners on the sides of their missile launchers that destroying Israel is the goal. I've not linked it.

So yes, such a govt should absolutely have a nuke...

People's anger and dislike towards Israel over Palestine is justified, and towards the US due to Trump's actions and policies.

But the saying "two wrongs don't make a right" applies; don't bloomin swing far to deeming it justifyable to allow a state a nuclear weapon who *literally* repeatedly claims they want to commit mass genocide with the ultimate indiscriminate weapon on an entire population.

You *can* separate them out.

Of course, the contrary was that Iran appeared to be adhering towards the restrictions in return for sanction easing prior to Israel influencing Trump to withdraw the US from it in 2016 was it? Which caused Iran to start over-enriching their "peaceful" purpose.

Two sides, brinksmanship... and one side has called the other's "bluff" (in quotes because there's zero evidence to indicate it's a bluff whatsoever - after all, they built their enrichment into a mountain to prevent it being attacked. Why...?)

[burger1]

Iran had enriched uranium but they weren't making weapon grade stuff. They have had it for years. Iran wasn't making nuclear weapons. Treaty was abandoned by first Trump administration?

Countries offering Iran nuclear weapons now. Russia has already warned of nuclear war in regards to Iran.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-co ... ns-2088979

Oil prices going up. Strait of Hormuz is being closed. Good for many countries including Russia.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/iran-votes-cl ... 05386.html

Iraq, Yemen and many other militants ready to join war against US.

Strikes on the nuclear facilities either failed or nothing much was there to begin with. Could have just collapsed tunnels and stuff. Non radiation stuff.

Vance claims US not at war with Iran.

[clakclak]

[…]

Vance claims US not at war with Iran.

Ah, I guess this was just a russian style special military operation then? What a clown show. Then again it makes sense. This way, the American government can claim that it was actually Iran that started the war by retaliating. Suddenly they are fighting a defensive not an aggressiv war. The American people are outraged, „How dare Iran attack us?!“ The entire narrative shifts. Might as well attempt to invoke NATO in that case and draw it into this entire ordeal alongside Israel and America.

[Chips]

Iran had enriched uranium but they weren't making weapon grade stuff. They have had it for years. Iran wasn't making nuclear weapons. Treaty was abandoned by first Trump administration?

So what levels of enrichment have they got and for what purposes is it required at that level?

[matthewfarmery]

Trucks have been seen moving stuff, which clearly shows, the strike weren't that effective. So all that strikes did was to stir up a hornets nest. Trump attack Iran for nothing. Russia have said they will assist Iran. So things could very well turn heated.

[Falcrack]

Someone should ask Vance if Iran had the capabilities and performed a similar strike against US nuclear facilities, if he would not consider it an act of war.

Idiotic hypocrisy.

[Alan Phipps]

@ matthewfarmery: The mission planners will have been watching and getting reports on the target locations in great detail for weeks and will also have been aware of any prior outloading operations. Maybe that explains the sudden rush to implement the operation before it became completely pointless and hence why the issued deadline for compliance or negotiation was ignored. What I would be surprised about is if they don't have at least some idea of where any outloading operations went to, initially at least, as there likely would have been close scrutiny going on.

[mr.WHO]

I was suprised that there is something called Pentagon Pizza index.

One would think that for national security, Pentagon should have their own internal Pizza service.

[chew-ie]

I was suprised that there is something called Pentagon Pizza index.

I never heared about that one before - it's yet another facepalm moment...

[Chips]

I was suprised that there is something called Pentagon Pizza index.

I never heared about that one before - it's yet another facepalm moment...

Is it, how?

[matthewfarmery]

Iran Targets U.S. Military Bases in Qatar

“Iran launched missiles at U.S. bases in Qatar, officials said, as videos filmed by residents in Qatar showed flashes and explosions,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

“That came about an hour after the country said it had closed its airspace ahead of an anticipated Iranian strike. A U.S. and an Israeli official said Iran had fired missiles toward Qatar.”

“Earlier, U.S. officials said Iran had begun moving missile launchers into place for a potential attack on U.S. forces in the Middle East.”

Things are getting serious now, Doubt there will be any de escalation, Trump will likely respond with greater force. But that will mean he will need approval first. As that was never given. But knowing Trump, he will likely start a fully fledged war without approval.

[Chips]

Iran Targets U.S. Military Bases in Qatar

“Iran launched missiles at U.S. bases in Qatar, officials said, as videos filmed by residents in Qatar showed flashes and explosions,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

“That came about an hour after the country said it had closed its airspace ahead of an anticipated Iranian strike. A U.S. and an Israeli official said Iran had fired missiles toward Qatar.”

“Earlier, U.S. officials said Iran had begun moving missile launchers into place for a potential attack on U.S. forces in the Middle East.”

Things are getting serious now, Doubt there will be any de escalation, Trump will likely respond with greater force. But that will mean he will need approval first. As that was never given. But knowing Trump, he will likely start a fully fledged war without approval.

If that's Iran's response to the nuclear enrichment plants being bombing, then Iran literally couldn't have chosen targets which say "we respond" with less chance of any damage/loss of life.
Much like when Soleimani was killed, they've got to respond, but the response they choose is very indicative.

They're not trying to start a war, while trying to keep face with a way out.

*edit* Trump's latest communications show he's very happy with this outcome, but also, he's literally goading them into more. So back onto how Iran takes it; do they escalate to try and save some weird form of face, or do they just go "eh, it happens" and move on. If Trump's tweets contain any honest outcomes, it'd indicate Iran warned in advance to avoid escalation.

So, there we have it.

[clakclak]

Trump says Iran and Israel have agreed to a 12 hour ceasefire.

Iran says it agreed to a ceasefire brokered by Qatar. Edit: Not yet officially confirmed contrary to earlier reports.

Israel has, as of writing this, has not announced agreeing to any ceasefire. Edit: Israel announces new strikes after Trump claims ceasefire agreed:

Israel warned residents in the Mehran and District 6 areas of Tehran to evacuate on Monday night as it planned its latest attacks. The warning came after Donald Trump claimed Israel and Iran had agreed a ceasefire that would begin in six hours.

Sources: There are many news reporting. Anything I link will be outdated by the time you read this.

I really hope this is actually happening and holds longer than 12 hours.

[Alan Phipps]

Apparently there was one Iranian missile launch into Israel well post-ceasefire. Israel has ordered a strong retaliation against 'regime targets' in Tehran in response. The shame is that if that launch was a mistake or by a rogue fundamentalist missile detachment acting independently, Iran could have said that and perhaps maintained the ceasefire a bit longer. One missile launch does not sound like a regime war policy.

Apparently the news of the ceasefire also triggered a sharp drop in oil prices, but I wonder how long it will take to bounce back up now that the ceasefire is in doubt again.

[chew-ie]

My take: Trump doesn't know how ceasefire deals work. It's not about what HE thinks should be done and WHEN it should be done - the trick is that all directly involved parties agree on something.

Israel-Iran war live: Trump swears in angry outburst at both sides over ceasefire violations (@source: theguardian.com)

[matthewfarmery]

U.S. Intelligence Says Iran’s Nuclear Sites Are Still Intact

“The US military strikes on three of Iran’s nuclear facilities last weekend did not destroy the core components of the country’s nuclear program and likely only set it back by months, according to an early US intelligence assessment that was described by three people briefed on it,” CNN reports.

“The assessment, which has not been previously reported, was produced by the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s intelligence arm. It is based on a battle damage assessment conducted by US Central Command in the aftermath of the US strikes.”

“The analysis of the damage to the sites and the impact of the strikes on Iran’s nuclear ambitions is ongoing, and could change as more intelligence becomes available. But the early findings are at odds with President Donald Trump’s repeated claims that the strikes ‘completely and totally obliterated’ Iran’s nuclear enrichment facilities.”

So total BS from Trump, and Iran has only been setback by a few months at best. Those strike were totally worthless. So much for "totally obliterated"