Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Burneyx
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu, 6. Mar 03, 13:20
x4

Post by Burneyx »

Chris0132 wrote:
Burneyx wrote:
Chris0132 wrote:No, it says you are permitted to use the software, you don't own the software, you are permitted to use it. That's what a license is.

Also the all rights reserved bit probably means they reserve the right to retract the license at any time for any reason.
Would you rent a car for full price and give it back whenever they want you to with no money back?
I guess not......

So my question is, why should i do this with software?

@apricotslice, mate your welcome :wink:

greetings

burneyx
Because you agree to do that with every book, film, game, and replicable commodity you buy.

You just choose to pretend that you actually own most of them.

Taking exception to one particular vendor of said commodities because you're arbitrarily afraid that they might shatter your delusion when none of the others have so far, makes no sense whatsoever.
Thats why they force the online factor......with that, they realy gain control, but its not in any consumers interest to have that!
Not in the current form, and therefore we will get new law in europe for all europeans, especialy looking for the online thing.
In about 2 years the new law will become active, then we will see how things change........(and if they change).
I have the time to wait and see.

greetings

burneyx
***modified***
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

xeon_1 wrote:
Chris0132 wrote:
"Reality is" that nobody is going to boot you off steam, unless you do something stupid like trying to run pirated games on it or something.
Sorry but steams bans user all the time because they don't like the software on there system/hardware of the system/payment issues not all banks are as fast/isp quirks

So to say you only get banned for cheating/other illegal stuff is rubbish.
While I have no doubt they've banned some people for that, there are flaws in every system after all, I somehow doubt they would regularly peak at nearly four million concurrent users every day if that was standard practice.

Let's assume they've banned one hundred thouasand people for entirely arbitrary reasons, which I think is a quite generous estimate that I pulled entirely out of my ass.

That's about 2.5 percent of their online userbase at peak time, not their total userbase, the number of people who are online at the moment.

According to wikipedia 2.2% of all deaths worldwide, are related to traffic accidents.

That means, comparatively speaking, that you are about as likely to get hit by a car and die, as you are to get unfairly banned from steam if they dedided to ban one hundred thousand people a year at random.

Now this is just a guess, but I think perhaps that steam probably doesn't want to ban a hundred thousand people a year at random, because that's a hundred thousand people who won't buy games off them, and who will tell their friends not to. It is in no conceivable way in steam's best interest to arbitrarily ban good customers.

What you are suggesting is nothing more than scare mongering. Don't do stuff you wouldn't do in any store you walk into on the high street, and you won't get banned from steam. This is a quite reliable rule of thumb, it is not absolute, but it is one I can say with a very practical degree of confidence.
fairywhipper
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri, 11. Dec 09, 01:11

Post by fairywhipper »

Chris0132 wrote: Steam itself isn't a license to a game, it's a license to use the steam service, which you don't pay for, and so obviously they are under no obligation to continue to provide it.
feeling picky today, must be living in a cave to long.
you do pay, but you dont subject it to money directly:
you pay for the data transfer,
you pay for the equipement to support the data transfer
you pay for the electricity to run the equipment
you pay for the time to use it.

anyway
EULA are conditional to nearly everything you use in the modern world, lets face it, half the time the company suggesting you agree to the EULA doesnt even know what it is making you agree to in terms of the law for each country. its a get out of jail free card in case you get sent to jail while playing monopoly. there have been cases where one company has copied the EULA of another whom copied it off somewhere else, and niether company even changed the wording or some of the references.

at the heart, the EULA is so you dont abuse the system or circumvent it, the EULA is not really the problem in this topic except when you are forced to accept it by steam in order to play a game by a developer whom has deemed to a requirement in conjunction with their own EULA.
so if one EULA says you can play the game, but the other says you can only play the game while standing naked on a bus, then you agree to this.... let me know which bus you are using so i can wear a blindford..... :lol:
Given up gaming because of steam
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

fairywhipper wrote:
Chris0132 wrote: Steam itself isn't a license to a game, it's a license to use the steam service, which you don't pay for, and so obviously they are under no obligation to continue to provide it.
feeling picky today, must be living in a cave to long.
you do pay, but you dont subject it to money directly:
you pay for the data transfer,
you pay for the equipement to support the data transfer
you pay for the electricity to run the equipment
you pay for the time to use it.
Ok, you don't pay STEAM for the STEAM service.

You pay your ISP for bandwidth, and they are obligated to provide it, you pay for your PC parts, and they are obligated to be given to you when you do so and usually come under warranty. You pay the electricity company, and they are obligated to keep your wires full of current, and you are given a finite amount of time at birth, although the terms of its license agreement are notoriously difficult to predict, and nobody seems to keep the paperwork, and the appeals court for unfair termination of service is a shambles.

My point is that steam's initial license agreement can only really cover a free service, because steam itself is free, it's the games that cost money, maybe it has a different section of the license for when you buy games.
fairywhipper
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri, 11. Dec 09, 01:11

Post by fairywhipper »

Chris0132 wrote:
My point is that steam's initial license agreement can only really cover a free service, because steam itself is free, it's the games that cost money, maybe it has a different section of the license for when you buy games.
Steam is a captilist company, they exsist to make money, if the offer a free service, it is in a way to induce you to spend money with them, hence it you do pay for the free service but not directly. they are there to make money and is not a charity ran organisation, it cost money to run, if everything was free then steam would go under. the steam service is free, but it is mainly a adversting system "oh look, it cost as nothing to use, lets spend our money here". it is based upon commericial transaction to sustain itself.

if we all opened a steam account, but not buy any games through them, their revenues would drop, and it would be a matter of time before they start charging. ooooohhhh, maybe they will start charging a monthly rent soon anyway?
Given up gaming because of steam
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

Of course the reason they give the service away for free is to get you to buy things, I didn't say it was altruistic, the point is that the steam service itself is free at this point in time. Therefore, the license agreement at this point in time is about a free product, which is why it says you own nothing and have no right to anything. To say otherwise would be like saying because you visited a website in the past it has to go out of its way to be available to you whatever you do or however long it's been since you last viisted it.
fairywhipper
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri, 11. Dec 09, 01:11

Post by fairywhipper »

Chris0132 wrote:Of course the reason they give the service away for free is to get you to buy things, I didn't say it was altruistic, the point is that the steam service itself is free at this point in time. Therefore, the license agreement at this point in time is about a free product, which is why it says you own nothing and have no right to anything. To say otherwise would be like saying because you visited a website in the past it has to go out of its way to be available to you whatever you do or however long it's been since you last viisted it.
here is extract of steam EULA:
Conclusion of this contract between Valve and you takes place as soon as you access the Steam service after accepting this Agreement.

Full link :http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

It maybe free at this point but then why the contract agreement?

a interesting read and how they define things such as subscription....
Given up gaming because of steam
User avatar
Texhnolyzed
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri, 19. Aug 11, 14:08
x3tc

Post by Texhnolyzed »

I hope that we will get a definite Steamworks confirmation soon! And maybe a collectors edition, since that decides if I buy it retail or on Steam. Though who knows how far from release it actually is...
dougeye
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sat, 7. Mar 09, 18:29
x3tc

Post by dougeye »

You think steam is bad, i just for battle filed 3 and was made to install origin, EA's version of steam! now that is worrying purely because it EA! lol the EULA basicly says we are going to scan every part of your pc, software hardware, application usage etc or your not playing are games! + no offline mode, when you laucnh battlefield 3 it takes you to a website! were you choose, multiplayer , co-op, single player and then the website launches the game! WTF is that all about!
I used to list PC parts here, but "the best" will suffice!
User avatar
apricotslice
Posts: 14163
Joined: Sun, 16. May 04, 13:01
x4

Post by apricotslice »

Steam is just another version of a computer store. It sells software. It also acts as a validation point for software.

My local store sells me a box with a disk in it, and they warranty under law that that disk will perform what the box says it will. If it doesnt, I have the right to return it. Australian warranty for any goods.

Steam operates outside that warranty under their own rules, AND also says that if their server isnt available to keep what is bought running, thats not their problem. So if their server is not available or it tells me it cant let me play my game just now, thats my problem, not theirs. Unacceptable !

I go back to what I originally said.

I want a disk, in a box, that does NOT require the internet to run. Period.
User avatar
EmperorJon
Posts: 9378
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 08, 20:58
x3tc

Post by EmperorJon »

dougeye wrote:now that is worrying purely because it EA!
So so true... ;)

But no, after reading the rest of what you've said, I'm glad I no longer buy anything EA.
______
I'm Jon. I'm mostly not around any more. If you want to talk, please message me! It's cool.
______
User avatar
the-danzorz
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri, 29. Jan 10, 22:39
x3tc

Post by the-danzorz »

apricotslice wrote:Steam is just another version of a computer store. It sells software. It also acts as a validation point for software.

My local store sells me a box with a disk in it, and they warranty under law that that disk will perform what the box says it will. If it doesnt, I have the right to return it. Australian warranty for any goods.

Steam operates outside that warranty under their own rules, AND also says that if their server isnt available to keep what is bought running, thats not their problem. So if their server is not available or it tells me it cant let me play my game just now, thats my problem, not theirs. Unacceptable !

I go back to what I originally said.

I want a disk, in a box, that does NOT require the internet to run. Period.
Once you verify it online just once, you can play it offline for the rest of the time. It won't need to re-authenticate the game at any time after that.

Also if that becomes the case, there is ways to port the game to make it standalone from steam. People have done it with HL2 and GMOD
User avatar
Texhnolyzed
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri, 19. Aug 11, 14:08
x3tc

Post by Texhnolyzed »

apricotslice wrote:I want a disk, in a box, that does NOT require the internet to run. Period.
Considering that you don't want to buy X: Rebirth, I wonder why you even still post in this thread. I mean, you made all statements you can countless times already.
User avatar
EmperorJon
Posts: 9378
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 08, 20:58
x3tc

Post by EmperorJon »

@Tex, I've made that point already, he seems to be repeating... Although he says he's still enjoying just taking part in the discussion, rather like me, so that's fine. This thread really doesn't have much of an aim anymore, so it's probably best it just stays as a "Everyone argue about Steam" thread, keeps the rest of the forums clean. :)
______
I'm Jon. I'm mostly not around any more. If you want to talk, please message me! It's cool.
______
User avatar
Santi
Moderator (DevNet)
Moderator (DevNet)
Posts: 4046
Joined: Tue, 13. Feb 07, 21:06
x4

Post by Santi »

Just checked my gamestore today, PC games down to one small shelf. Digital distribution is the best option for non AAA titles. Nothing beats it on value for money from a game dev or small producer company point of view. The exposure you get is just amazing compared with traditional methods of shipping games.

Steam may not be perfect but is the top option available at the moment and they and other companies represent the future of digital distribution, and dont think that media will be distributed any other way very soon.

So you better join and help to develop a system that will be the only option available in the near future.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

santi wrote:Just checked my gamestore today, PC games down to one small shelf. Digital distribution is the best option for non AAA titles. Nothing beats it on value for money from a game dev or small producer company point of view. The exposure you get is just amazing compared with traditional methods of shipping games.

Steam may not be perfect but is the top option available at the moment and they and other companies represent the future of digital distribution, and dont think that media will be distributed any other way very soon.

So you better join and help to develop a system that will be the only option available in the near future.
Personally I'm looking forward to ebooks, wanna see that really take off, then I'll buy a reader and have a complete binge on all sorts of books I can't be bothered looking for/haven't got the shelf space for really.
Slashman
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue, 12. Oct 10, 03:31
x4

Post by Slashman »

Chris0132 wrote:Personally I'm looking forward to ebooks, wanna see that really take off, then I'll buy a reader and have a complete binge on all sorts of books I can't be bothered looking for/haven't got the shelf space for really.
Same here. Seriously considering a Kindle Fire for myself around Christmas.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

I'm kinda hoping that kindles/similar will end up like MP3 players. You can get one that fits any need for dirt cheap and they all use a standard format. That'd be pretty cool.
User avatar
NUKLEAR-SLUG
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu, 4. May 06, 13:20
x3tc

Post by NUKLEAR-SLUG »

Man, you people type too much.. :P
apricotslice wrote:Which totally ignores the fact that a very high percentage of steam sales are only for heavily discounted games during sale periods. And a high percentage of Steam users ONLY buy when prices are heavily discounted.

In which case, the developer is getting much much less than they would from the store sales.
No, you don't understand the way it works. Yes, initially when the game goes on sale there is a surge in purchases. That is after all the point of the sale. What happens after the sale ends though is the interesting part. You're assuming that once off sale that's it, end of story, but what actually happens is that the sales peak persists and tails off only slowly even after the game is back to normal price.

Apparently the reasoning behind it is down to people who bought it on sale on the premise that 'It's only a fiver, it's worth a punt' finding out it's actually a good game and then telling their friends who go and buy it at full price. Word of mouth it seems actually generates further sales. The upshot of all this is that overall the game gets MORE sales and therefore makes MORE profits from being in one of Steams sales than not.
fairywhipper wrote: ah the download to another computer work around... a few mb would be ok, but 2.5gb + 900mb ish = 3.4gb ish.

however, that might not be solution as you install the game onto another computer with steam, doesnt it mean authentification is based on that computer? i
Steam validation is indeed based by hardware, however Steam provides the ability to register additional machines to your profile so that you can play in more than one location. For example if you own a laptop you can install Steam on there too and take your games with you when you travel. The only caveat is that you may ONLY be logged onto steam from one machine at any one time.

What this means in your case is that yes, you have the option of taking your machine/laptop to a friends house and borrowing their connection to update yourself after which your low-level connection will be more than adequate for authentication.

Alternatively, if moving the whole machine is a hassle, you could just log onto your friends machine with your account, download your updates, transfer them to USB drive and then copy them onto your machine when you get home. Once you've done that you would just need to do a quick "Verify Integrity of game cache" and reauthenticate yourself and you'd be good to go.
apricotslice wrote:I got the distinct impression it came as a shock to Bernd that they would lose any sales because of steam. The way he said what he did seemed to indicate it hadnt occured to him that any of us would refuse to buy because of steam.
Don't kid yourself.

Egosoft were well aware that there would be people who would take offence to Steam, just as they were well aware that people would take offence to the changes they've made in Rebirth (single playership/no piloting capitals) and just as they've been well aware of every other objection the community has made over whatever issue-of-the-week it's currently fixated on. This is nothing new.
the old one wrote:NUCLER-SLUG the answer is simple i trust egosoft,but steam is like having a second rectum, you dont what cr*p will come out next,the old one :rant: :P :P :P
Well that would indeed be your double-standard you mentioned then. You're willing to give Egosoft the benefit of the doubt but not Valve. You're arguing against Steam without any basis of understanding of what it is you're against. It's a position that fairly blows your whole argument out the water really.
X2-Eliah wrote:That same clause applies to ALL computer-game media. Including all your fancy titles on DVDs with their DRMs. Don't selectively discriminate - if you hate that stuff, then say goodbye to all games.
QFT +1
xeon_1 wrote: Sorry but steams bans user all the time because they don't like the software on there system/hardware of the system/payment issues not all banks are as fast/isp quirks

So to say you only get banned for cheating/other illegal stuff is rubbish.
I keep seeing this being brought up. People get banned from WoW etc for cheating, hacking and glitching all the time. Those are legitimate account bans. Kindly provide documentary evidence that Steam regularly, willfully, bans accounts for people that have done nothing wrong or retract your claim.
fairywhipper wrote:if we all opened a steam account, but not buy any games through them, their revenues would drop, and it would be a matter of time before they start charging. ooooohhhh, maybe they will start charging a monthly rent soon anyway?
And maybe your government will introduce a 'Processor Tax'. Anyone who owns a machine with a CPU that operates over 1ghz will be required to pay a yearly ownership tax. Kind of like Car Tax. Sounds silly, but it's about as likely as what you're suggesting
Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Post by Chris0132 »

"People get banned on steam for unfair reasons all the time."

"Actually it's less likely than dying in a car accident."

"But what if it happened to YOU??! WoooOOooOOoo *scary noises*"

You're kinda making my argument for me here.

Return to “X Rebirth Universe”