New interview

[CutterJohn1]

Why should people be silent about stuff they don't like while it is perfectly acceptable to extol the virtues of all the new features that they do like?

It comes across like: 'Shhhhh. Don't talk about that unpleasant stuff. Just go sit quietly in a corner and let everyone else rave about the good stuff.'

Indeed, well said.

[Captain Lemmiwinks]

but i have supported ES by buying things like the superbox,when i had all the games already.
it seemed they needed income,so i answered the call.
so when they call me disposable...well its like burning a bridge.

But you do that for your benefit no? You identify that they may need the money to make the game that you might want to play so you made the investment. Tell me, would you do the same for a company you have no interest in? To me support is something you do with no expect of return, like raising a child (if you're a proper parents that is). In the business words, support just mean a mutual benefit system so as such there shouldn't a sense of indebted or obligation w/e (aside from business obligation of course).

To be frank, game is an art form, and it's called that way because someone have a vision and they go out and turn that vision into reality. Buying a game for me was never about demanding someone to make a game I want to play but about find a company that has a vision I like. Maybe if one day I becomes a billionaire and bankroll someone, I'll have them make one suit to my taste, but then at that point it would be "my" vision, "my" game. Honestly I would prefer a dev stick to their vision and make a game I don't like, rather for them to make a game that I like by going against what they want to make.

so true.

my support was completely selfish,theres so few games i like and even less i pre order.

but the horrible truth is,nobody can develop a game these days that follows a dream,some have tried but failed and usually end up losing thier shirts over it.
the costs are immense,and the poor staff end up trying to find work in a society thats pumping out programmers and artists by the thousands each and every year.
i left school early to get work,and yet friends who did the university route are still standing there in daft uniforms asking me if i want fries with that.

reminds me of the fallout series,loved the games and gameplay,then it all went tits up and we/i suffered a long drought.

i am indeed a selfish git

but i will fork out readys to get what i like,at the same time i will also scratch me arse and walk away when its over.


pardon the spelling..i am totally and utterly smashed here

[Mightysword]

Why should people be silent about stuff they don't like while it is perfectly acceptable to extol the virtues of all the new features that they do like?

It comes across like: 'Shhhhh. Don't talk about that unpleasant stuff. Just go sit quietly in a corner and let everyone else rave about the good stuff.'

Because aside from the few "nutties" as you put it who will jump at every contradicting opinion, I think most people are reasonable. It's less about "shut up don't say bad thing", but more along the line of "how about you wait until the game come out before making judgement". Again, if after the game come out and it proves the skeptic was right, I'll jump on board right beside them, but again, that is "after" I play the game.

And like I said (and I read pretty much everything on this forum) I have rarely seen the time when people politely raising their skepticism and receive harsh rebuttal. But when you post something like "Egosoft didn't listen to us and make a stupid decision about 1 flyable ship". Well, what do you think people should do about that? Remember if you can feel so strongly about something, then other can feel just as strong about that ... on the opposite direction

[A5PECT]

but the horrible truth is,nobody can develop a game these days that follows a dream...

Nobody can develop a game that follows your dream.

They can't. They're not you.

That's the greatest fallacy gamers - no, people in general - live their lives by.

i am indeed a selfish git

Evidently.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

And there's nothing wrong with other people - Egosoft employees included - being selfish gits, either.

[Slashman]

Because aside from the few "nutties" as you put it who will jump at every contradicting opinion, I think most people are reasonable. It's less about "shut up don't say bad thing", but more along the line of "how about you wait until the game come out before making judgement". Again, if after the game come out and it proves the skeptic was right, I'll jump on board right beside them, but again, that is "after" I play the game.

This may be exactly the heart of the problem. I'm not saying that the game will be a bad game because it has one ship. I honestly don't think most people are even saying that. Why do I need to wait until it comes out to decide that I prefer multiuple ships? This isn't about proving that the game will be bad. I think it will be a fun enough game.

As an example. I liked the fact that you managed multiple bases in the original XCOM games. XCOM:Enemy Unknown has a single base. The game was a good game and I will likely get the expansion. That in no way means that I didn't know before hand that I liked the idea of managing multiple bases and squads.

The game coming out and me finding it was a good game does not make me want that option less.

The whole argument of 'wait til it comes out' actually makes no sense.

People are saying: 'We like multiple ships.' We know the game has a single ship. How does waiting until it comes out make any difference? It would only make a difference the stated opinion was: 'One player ship will make this game crap.' Or something similar.

And like I said (and I read pretty much everything on this forum) I have rarely seen the time when people politely raising their skepticism and receive harsh rebuttal. But when you post something like "Egosoft didn't listen to us and make a stupid decision about 1 flyable ship". Well, what do you think people should do about that? Remember if you can feel so strongly about something, then other can feel just as strong about that ... on the opposite direction

Equally silly are statements to the effect that one player ship will make the game awesome. As if it was the greatest idea in the history of gaming. The open universe, the trading and all the great work they put into the game will make it awesome(if it turns out that way). A single ship concept won't be the thing that does it.

The game could have multiple ships and be totally crappy.

[Mightysword]

Equally silly are statements to the effect that one player ship will make the game awesome. As if it was the greatest idea in the history of gaming. The open universe, the trading and all the great work they put into the game will make it awesome(if it turns out that way). A single ship concept won't be the thing that does it.

I think you misunderstood what I said here: what I mean by "opposite direction" is not when someone declare one flyable ship is the best thing since slice-bread, but that when you feel strong enough to throw an "attack" behind your judgement, you should really expect people to counter in force.

And my point is just that, not about how valid is the opinion, but how it is presented. Again, skeptic about the 1 ship is abundant on this forum, we probably have enough to last a few year. Yet I have never seen harsh rebuttal when people say "it's a pity we only have 1 ship", "I don't really like the skunk", "I really wish we have more ships", those are fine and cool. But if you have to throw an attack or insult to go along with it, maybe you feel the need to do so to make it clear how strongly you feel about it, but just don't be surprise why other react the way they do. It's not what is said, it's how it is said.

[ahddib]

Wow. ( my only response to the OT posts)

I liked the interview.

Anyone wonder why the combat sim isn't released as a public demo?

[Zaydin]

Wow. ( my only response to the OT posts)

I liked the interview.

Anyone wonder why the combat sim isn't released as a public demo?

Fairly certain the line from Egosoft has been that they don't want to release the Gamescon demo as a public demo for Rebirth is because they feel it's not representative of the entire game; it's just a combat demo and could give people the wrong impressions about Rebirth.

[ahddib]

Wow. ( my only response to the OT posts)

I liked the interview.

Anyone wonder why the combat sim isn't released as a public demo?

Fairly certain the line from Egosoft has been that they don't want to release the Gamescon demo as a public demo for Rebirth is because they feel it's not representative of the entire game; it's just a combat demo and could give people the wrong impressions about Rebirth.

Yeah, I was just hoping they'd put it in their download page so only forum peeps would really see it. I'm pretty sure we'd know the difference, but hey, observing the posts on here lately that might be a good decision on egosoft's part. So much QQ - the trolls are well fed.

[Nomadski]

I think what was clear from part of that interview, and mentioned by Bernd himself, is that the existing fanbase, or at least elements of it who are unwilling to change with the game are disposable.

do you have a link to that ?

so i can decide if ES is a disposable developer.

always better to know what a dev actually thinks of thier "fan base"

The link is in the first post of this thread.

[plynak]

Umm, just a quick question. Which developer ever made changes once he had customer's money?

Egosoft? They've already added more ships before. And I remind you people were not in such negative mood as you are BEFORE X:BtF came out

Many indie developers create communities and support their games after release. It's the way for them to build name. And many of those games are created as passion and share a dream (in just a little hope for money. See mods).

Even Bioware made big changes for NWN1.

And to be honest, we told Egosoft how stupid the one ship only idea is when they first announced the game two years ago. And they did nothing.

false. They asked us to wait and see and judge after we try it this way. You are not even willing to do that. And you want them listen to YOU? Me, me, me, mine, mine, mine?

What makes you think they will do something now?

because so far they did? There is place for customers wishes. But there is also place for designers vision. You don't respect that and blame them instead for their creativity? They had time to think over it. They have testing versions. But you know it better? Something is wrong in that.

I can wait for that one feature how it goes. I think I'll like other things in Rebirth much more then disliking this one. But I want to see what THEIR vision is. It's new.

Yes, indie developers. Because they understand very well their very own existence depends on their players. But as far as I know, Egosoft is not indie, is it?
Really? Please name one ship they added. As far as I remember in Reunion, they even had ONE model for several ships after release. Yes, the game was that bugged. And for Terran Conflict, they took ships from the Xtended MOD.
Yes, nice. Please give us your 50 EUR and then judge the game. I will accept that only under the condition they give me a full refund in case I am right. But that is not going to happen, is it? So no, I really am not fanboy enough to spend 50 EUR just to see if I was right or wrong.
And removing features and simpifing gameplay is creative? Really? Then I really wish for some uncreative thinking then. And no, I do not respect anyone who is telling me what is good or bad, what is boring and what is not. I am quite capable of making my own decisions.

[plynak]

I think what was clear from part of that interview, and mentioned by Bernd himself, is that the existing fanbase, or at least elements of it who are unwilling to change with the game are disposable.

It sounds harsh, and some may get quite precious about that, but I understand where he is coming from, they had to start making a game for Egosoft, not for the hardcore X fan. What I mean by that is they wanted to get a product out there that didnt have a wall of complexity around it stopping the mass market from wanting to have a look.

Its not about turning X into CoD, Im sure Bernd knows the market for any space game is still fairly niche, even given Star Citizen's success. Especially so for one which doesn't rely on multiplayer pew pew or linear Star Wars storylines, where everything is set up for the player and he goes through the motions to the credits.

Everyone knows Egosoft are small, and perhaps the thinking is they wanted to work on something slightly different, that might have a better chance of making a little more money for them to develop themselves as a business and the game itself more in the future.

We are seeing X 'year one' again, its a new foundation for a new series, and they seem to be willing to let a few fans who have expectations beyond what Egosoft can provide at this time be disappointed, in the hope a new group of fans can be interested and invest in the game.

Its a risky venture all round, but then I suppose carrying on releasing marginal products with shinier graphics would be moreso.

And for the record, I too would like to see things that aren't in the game (Im especially 100% with Earth Ultimatum IV on his dream), but maybe we all need to cut back our expectations, this isnt X4, and our criticisms, we haven't played the game yet, and see this new vision plays out, and how it develops as a series.

In that case Egosoft goes downhill like Creative Assembly. They openly admitted they make games to get high scores from reviewers and they do not give a damn about players. And the outcome? The worst game in all Total War series called Rome Total War 2, terrible player scores and a totaly damaged reputation. And I can assure you, that Total War series has much bigger playerbase than X, they may still recover from this fiasco. But this is what happens the moment you stop making game for players and start making it for reviewers of for yourself. I am really confused that one company is not capable of learning from another and just goes the same suicidal way.

[raya6789]

The fu** is going on in this thread and why is that guy a moderator if all he does is whine all day long?

[Zaydin]

The worst game in all Total War series called Rome Total War 2, terrible player scores and a totaly damaged reputation. And I can assure you, that Total War series has much bigger playerbase than X, they may still recover from this fiasco. But this is what happens the moment you stop making game for players and start making it for reviewers of for yourself. I am really confused that one company is not capable of learning from another and just goes the same suicidal way.

I don't hold much stock in player scores for games; too easily abused either by nerd-raging, unreleasable fans torpedoing a games review score without merit (I.E, the Diablo fanboys who raged that Diablo 3 wasn't just a 3D remake of Diablo 2). The players most likely to review bomb a game are the ones pissed off; the ones having fun with a game are more focused on actually playing the game.

The flipside is that some games get either the developer or rabid fans making sock puppets to artificially inflate the player score.

Player scores, in my opinion, cannot be trusted on any site that allows them.

I could really care less what reviewers say about a game, be they professional critics or raging fanboys; what matters personally to me is that I, myself enjoyed the game.

[plynak]

The worst game in all Total War series called Rome Total War 2, terrible player scores and a totaly damaged reputation. And I can assure you, that Total War series has much bigger playerbase than X, they may still recover from this fiasco. But this is what happens the moment you stop making game for players and start making it for reviewers of for yourself. I am really confused that one company is not capable of learning from another and just goes the same suicidal way.

I don't hold much stock in player scores for games; too easily abused either by nerd-raging, unreleasable fans torpedoing a games review score without merit (I.E, the Diablo fan-tards who raged that Diablo 3 wasn't just a 3D remake of Diablo 2). The players most likely to review bomb a game are the ones pissed off; the ones having fun with a game are more focused on actually playing the game.

The flipside is that some games get either the developer or rabid fans making sock puppets to artificially inflate the player score.

Player scores, in my opinion, cannot be trusted on any site that allows them.

I could really care less what reviewers say about a game, be they professional critics or raging fanboys; what matters personally to me is that I, myself enjoyed the game.

And there is the problem. Maybe you have enough money to buy every game and to make your own opinion. But most people do not. Especially for games like Rome 2 and Rebirth with price tag of 50 EUR and more.
Do you remember times when most games had a demo version? Then we were told it is too expensive to make ones. No company would admit that a demo version would make people think twice to buy the full product. And yet there are still indie developers who release a timely limited game so you can make your opinion for free (Evochron space sims for example).
And I really think that player reviews can be trusted more than so called proffesional ones. The good ones gives you information, no "professional" reviewer will ever tell you. And we have seen many times over hyped games getting 9 or 10/10 while being mediocre at best. And in case of Rome Total War 2, it is so evident that even a blind man could see it.

[Zaydin]

And there is the problem. Maybe you have enough money to buy every game and to make your own opinion. But most people do not. Especially for games like Rome 2 and Rebirth with price tag of 50 EUR and more.
Do you remember times when most games had a demo version? Then we were told it is too expensive to make ones. No company would admit that a demo version would make people think twice to buy the full product. And yet there are still indie developers who release a timely limited game so you can make your opinion for free (Evochron space sims for example).
And I really think that player reviews can be trusted more than so called proffesional ones. The good ones gives you information, no "professional" reviewer will ever tell you. And we have seen many times over hyped games getting 9 or 10/10 while being mediocre at best. And in case of Rome Total War 2, it is so evident that even a blind man could see it.

It's called 'Doing research'. No one forces people to buy a game on Launch Day; waiting for both professional and player reviews to start rolling in is a completely valid thing to do if you are on the fence about a game.

I've done my research about Rebirth; most of what I read has me excited. But I've also tempered that with, again, research, with the knowledge that Egosoft games tend to be more than a bit buggy on release; I am not expecting a flawless experience with Rebirth on launch. I am trying to keep my expectations realistic despite my optimism.

And in the Rome 2 example, I'd hardly say that reviewers lavished it with praise; it's Metacritic rating is about a 76; meaning generally favorable. Hardly 'universal praise'. Compare that to say, GTA V, which is 97, or Fire Emblem: Awakening, which is a 92.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

The fu** is going on in this thread and why is that guy a moderator if all he does is whine all day long?

I wonder about same thing indeed, he whines about everything, and everytime.


BTW I pre-ordered the game for only 35€...

[Abraxis86]

Not to mention every Total War game since Medieval has released in a terrible state, 3 of which being utterly disastrous.

[Zaydin]

Not to mention every Total War game since Medieval has released in a terrible state, 3 of which being utterly disastrous.

I'll second that. Empire: Total War had some pretty bad bugs at the start, especially for the AI. I remember being invulnerable as Great Britain for a while before CA finally fixed the AI bug that left the AI incapable of launching naval invasions.

[Captain Lemmiwinks]

hmmmm

a critic is a whiner ?

sounds to me like the "whiner" is making points the trolls cant counter with an intelligent response.

just another game forum