Current [POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

If X-Rebirth is exclusively Steam, will you purchase at least one copy?

Yes, do you even need to ask!
395
79%
No, I'll immolate myself before that day comes!
23
5%
Maybe, see what the future brings....
8
2%
Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft.
47
9%
Maybe, but only to support Egosoft.
12
2%
Maybe, but would prefer an alternate Digtal Provider (e.g. GoG)
18
4%
 
Total votes: 503

JackBNimble
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Post by JackBNimble »

I have been using steam for a few years now. For me , steam is my game library, my game store , I have easy access to mods, and a access to friends if I choose.

Now the biggest reason that I like steam ,besides the ones I listed already, are automatic updates and the fact that most games besides mmo's and any game that requires you to log in online, can be played in steams offline mode. Infact I can put steam in offline mode, unplug my internet and never plug in or log on again and be able to play X3:TC and 99% of my other games.

My guess why X-Rebirth is going on steam... obviously egosoft wants copy protection for their game that they have spent 7 years developing. Put it on GOG and how many pirated copies would be out there? Why should the dev's leave it to faith that their fans wont make copies of their game and give it to 5 of their friends? Give people the option to pirate games and they will, maybe not everyone but there are some who wouldn't think twice about it.

I know one thing for sure, I am buying X-rebirth on steam and I will be able to play it in offline mode if I choose.

Support the Dev's of this great series.

EDIT: The only DRM that will be forced on you from Steam is the fact that you will not be able to copy the game, and why would you need to anyway since it will always be in your steam library.
Ebany
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Post by Ebany »

Excellent points.

I used Steam when it was first released for CounterStrike updates, it was true innovation, and today I have more than 800 games.
I still use Steam where I must to play games like Hoard, Endless Space. Even though I've never played them on Steam I purchased all the X:Series games for myself, my family, and my friends to show my support.

I've read nothing which relates to the X:Series been pirated on a scale which caused severe loss of income, but you could right in thinking this may be the case. Just because there is little discussed about it ....... In my demographic area we're not legally able to create "back-ups" of copyrighted material so it was not something I really thought of.

DeepSilver & EgoSoft will do what is right for their business to survive, but I worry the decision to partner with Steam in such an exclusive manner may be detrimental to their independence, even if initially economically beneficial. I must thank them however, I've not had an internal struggle raging over Steam since I looked at the Kickstarter for Shadowrun Returns and Star Citizen. I put money into Shadowrun Returns, but much as I loved Privateer, couldn't bring myself to invest in Star Citizen. Maybe it will release on GOG someday :D
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But he who kisses joy as it flies
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Raider480
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Post by Raider480 »

Ebany wrote:In my demographic area we're not legally able to create "back-ups" of copyrighted material so it was not something I really thought of.
That's just ludicrous. Would you be a criminal for copying a no-steam'd game over to a laptop? Digital copying is trivial compared to dealing with physical entities, a phenomenon those laws don't seem to have been made in realization of.
JackBNimble wrote:Why should the dev's leave it to faith that their fans wont make copies of their game and give it to 5 of their friends?
Just to reiterate a couple of tired points, against a rhetorical comment:
Games _will_ be cracked and unscrupulously acquired no matter what. Most who acquire their games through such alternative means likely have no intent to buy anyway.

Steam can try to be as much of a 'Super Meta-DRM +1' all it wants, but Valve consistently demonstrates how they aren't serious about consistency with the platform's core operating principles. Offline Mode has been plagued by endemic issues for years, and coupled with encryption on game executables (which is why TC updates can disable Steam) just arbitrarily worsens the restrictions part of DRM. One of Egosoft's main points in the sticky thread was trusting Valve/Steam, and even after putting whole DRM=evil sentiment aside, that just doesn't seem reasonable.
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NUKLEAR-SLUG
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Post by NUKLEAR-SLUG »

Ebany wrote:No personal choice is correct but they're all worthy of respect. It's the belief that some people's opinions are more "correct" than others which leads to the rise of groups of violence (like the Nazi's or KKK), groups who believe in suppressing any mindset not attuned to their own.
Actually I agree entirely with what Chris0132 says on this.

The internet is a great invention and allows a lot of people who would otherwise be unable to contribute their opinion to a discussion to do so, however just because it enables your opinion to be heard does not in any way automatically make your opinion of equal merit to someone else. That's a key point that a lot of people seem to forget.

For example, if you were to have a tech question you would probably head over to a tech oriented site to ask it. That doesn't mean the denizens of Mumsnet wouldn't be able to offer an opinion on your problem, but it's really considerably less likely to fall within their area of expertise.

So yes, some peoples opinions are 'more correct' than others.
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EmperorJon
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Post by EmperorJon »

Indeed. The phrase "Everyone's opinion is equal" often gets interpreted as "Everyone's opinion is equally correct" whereas it should be interpreted as "Everyone's opinion should be equally considered, nobody should be totally ignored before actual analysis of their opinion..." ;)
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fairywhipper
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Post by fairywhipper »

Strange after much length of time and lots of post, we're still debating the merits of steam...
Far as im concerned at the moment, rebirth is coming out on steam with enhanced links to steam therefore to debunk steam free would require major overhaul hence it will be steam only for at least a year after it comes out most likely 5years...
hence, i will look in from time to time
i cant use steam for internet usage restrictions, i dont want to use steam for many reasons, so its game over.
ps
i dont mind the old 640k limit thing cause i used a dedicated autoexec.bat for each game, and i found leaving the cd in drive for games annoying but after many years having to connect to the internet to ask someone to let me play my game again..... ohhhhh. did i say my game... i do mean my hired game.... :lol:
Given up gaming because of steam
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

With regards to ownership of a given title, that is not a "Steam factor" it is a developer/publisher factor. Steam is just a facilitator and nothing more.

If a developer/publisher believes you own the license to use the software purchased via Steam (e.g. X-Rebirth) in perpetuity then you own it.

If Steam were to disappear it is up to each individual developer/publisher to handle the fallout with their customers.

If there was a problem with access to a game via Steam and Steam is being uncooperative with resolution of the problem my approach would be to go back to the developer/publisher (with some form of proof of ownership) and attempt to raise the issue with them.
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NUKLEAR-SLUG
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Post by NUKLEAR-SLUG »

fairywhipper wrote:ohhhhh. did i say my game... i do mean my hired game.... :lol:
Correction: Licenced for personal use. :P
Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 »

I should point out that the entire presence of the EULA has always been to tell you that you don't OWN the software, you have purchased a license to use it personally, under the conditions stated in the EULA.

The reason we have this is because of the nature of software, software exists in copies, so the company that produces it owns the software, it's their property, and they are selling licenses for personal use.

In practice we generally used to treat things as you owning that copy of the software, but technically (and legally) speaking you don't, you own a LICENSE to use the software, any copy of the software, and the terms of the license dictate how you can use it (for yourself only, for multiple people, for organisations).

The reason we need that is because if you install the software without the license agreement, technically you're commiting piracy, because if you only owned the copy on the CD, then you couldn't install it on your computer (because that makes a copy of it on your computer.) Similarly if you owned, say, a copy on the CD plus the copy it makes on your PC, then if you wanted to install it on multiple PCs, you would need to be shipped multiple discs when you bought the software, a license makes it possible to sell you one disc and let you install it multiple times. Also, without the license idea, if you owned the CD and all derivatives, it would be perfectly legal for you to make as many copies as you like and sell them to people as well, but you can't do that because of the license.

That is why the concept of the license exists for software, because people realised this a long time ago and set up the license system to have it make legal sense. Software is not a traditional commodity, so the license idea is what allows it to be sold in a way that can conform to the laws which govern buying and selling things. They require you to be clear about what you're selling, and that's why you buy a license.

Nothing has legally changed since the introduction of the EULA, the only difference is in the practical enforcement of it. It is perhaps more practical for companies to revoke your license now than it once was, however that doesn't mean they are going to start doing it to everyone.

As has always been the case, don't pirate stuff and you will, in all probability, not have any guff with the license laws.
A5PECT
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Post by A5PECT »

Inevitable counter-argument:
EULAs will never hold up in a court of law should they actually challenged.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 »

A lot of the more ridiculous bits that are understandably objectionable won't, especially ones that say things like 'we're not responsible for anything bad that happens to your PC', which would be ludicrous if a company released a program that melted everyone's hard drive. Or the bits about information gathering and use which contravene data protection laws in many countries. Some things you just can't cover with a disclaimer. Wearing a sign saying 'I'm going to nick your purse' doesn't make purse snatching legal.

But the concept of you buying a license rather than a disc is sort of necessary because you can't treat software as a conventional good.

If you buy a car, you have a car. If you buy a piece of software, you have the instructions to make more copies of that piece of software wherever you want with ease, you have to put that under some degree of legal control, otherwise software piracy would be completely legal and I imagine most of the software industry would fall to bits. It's like if buying a car gave you a car factory and an unlimited amount of resources to make cars with.

It's one thing saying that piracy doesn't cause significant damage to the industry, but it's another to say it would continue to be not-terribly-relevant if it was actually legal to do and anyone in the world could copy and software and sell it or hand it out to anyone with no legal action.
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Hrodeth
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Post by Hrodeth »

Without reading the 12 page thread, regarding the OP, I don't see the conflict. Steam has an offline mode. It's not like Ubisoft which closes your games if your connection goes out. For which reason specifically, I will never purchase or play a ubisoft title. Frankly the only thing that sucks about Steam is if you get bored and uninstall a game, then you have to wait through download time again later if you put it back on. Otherwise, I no longer miss having discs, and find steam to be superior anyway. I do miss nice paper manuals though.
Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 »

Hrodeth wrote:Without reading the 12 page thread, regarding the OP, I don't see the conflict. Steam has an offline mode. It's not like Ubisoft which closes your games if your connection goes out. For which reason specifically, I will never purchase or play a ubisoft title. Frankly the only thing that sucks about Steam is if you get bored and uninstall a game, then you have to wait through download time again later if you put it back on. Otherwise, I no longer miss having discs, and find steam to be superior anyway. I do miss nice paper manuals though.
Apparently ubisoft have removed that requirement from uplay due to complaints. Also steam's offline mode is a little spotty.
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Hrodeth
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Post by Hrodeth »

Chris0132 wrote:
Hrodeth wrote:Without reading the 12 page thread, regarding the OP, I don't see the conflict. Steam has an offline mode. It's not like Ubisoft which closes your games if your connection goes out. For which reason specifically, I will never purchase or play a ubisoft title. Frankly the only thing that sucks about Steam is if you get bored and uninstall a game, then you have to wait through download time again later if you put it back on. Otherwise, I no longer miss having discs, and find steam to be superior anyway. I do miss nice paper manuals though.
Apparently ubisoft have removed that requirement from uplay due to complaints. Also steam's offline mode is a little spotty.
Did they? Nice to hear that they listened. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from it. I've never had a problem with steam's offline mode. Trust me, I was as loud as can be in opposition to digital distribution when it all started happening. But it's turned out alright. As long as it doesn't get pushed further anyway.
Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 »

I never used my offline mode much but when I had to due to outages it generally didn't work. What information there is suggests it's highly random as to whether it works for you.
JackBNimble
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Post by JackBNimble »

Chris0132 wrote:I never used my offline mode much but when I had to due to outages it generally didn't work. What information there is suggests it's highly random as to whether it works for you.
That's strange , I use offline mode quite often and never have any problems. It is also a myth that you need to log into steam for verification to start a game, that's just simply not true at all.
Ebany
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Post by Ebany »

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
Ebany wrote:No personal choice is correct but they're all worthy of respect. It's the belief that some people's opinions are more "correct" than others which leads to the rise of groups of violence (like the Nazi's or KKK), groups who believe in suppressing any mindset not attuned to their own.
Actually I agree entirely with what Chris0132 says on this.

..........

So yes, some peoples opinions are 'more correct' than others.
I understand that your an avid fan of Steam, I also understand we've had differences of opinion in the past and by agreeing with any part of someone's personal attack against me your simply giving a veiled insult while been able to maintain un démenti. It's petty. Chris apologising to the Moderator instead of me was also petty. There were a heap of other comments exactly the same without the aggressive insults you could have mentioned.

Just so I'm clear; I find it offensive when people refer to, or quote, that particular personal attack with agreement of any type of positive aspect. I moved on a while ago, I just wish others could.
EmperorJon wrote:Indeed. The phrase "Everyone's opinion is equal" often gets interpreted as "Everyone's opinion is equally correct" whereas it should be interpreted as "Everyone's opinion should be equally considered, nobody should be totally ignored before actual analysis of their opinion..." ;)
I fully agree

It's not about "who is more correct". Since the opinion on whether a person (dis)likes Steam is both personal and subjective, there really can be no wrong or right answer, only an "opinion". The point I'm trying to make is that an individual should not be put down or suffer recrimination because they're not smart, or they're young, or simply have an opinion which varies from others.

It would no longer be "opinion if it's "correct", it would be fact.

But my point has always been this;

Feeling safe to voice an opinion should be every-ones right.
He who bends himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy,
But he who kisses joy as it flies
Lives in eternities sunrise.
Ebany
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Post by Ebany »

I have been wondering for a few days now, if X:Rebirth was been released exclusively with one of Steams competitors, say EA's Origin, would people answer "yes" more readily if using them?
He who bends himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy,
But he who kisses joy as it flies
Lives in eternities sunrise.
JackBNimble
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Post by JackBNimble »

Ebany wrote:I have been wondering for a few days now, if X:Rebirth was been released exclusively with one of Steams competitors, say EA's Origin, would people answer "yes" more readily if using them?
Origin is EA based and I believe most (if not all) games are published by EA. EA favours heavy DRM , just look at SimCity, you have to be logged into ea/maxis servers just to play. Every 3 minutes the server saves the game and checks authenticity, or something crazy like that. If EA had their way , Origin would be in total lock down.

Origin serves EA .
Night Nord
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Post by Night Nord »

Ebany wrote:I have been wondering for a few days now, if X:Rebirth was been released exclusively with one of Steams competitors, say EA's Origin, would people answer "yes" more readily if using them?
Obviously not. Origin EULA states that you may download the game for a only two month after purchase. You are expected to download the game and make "backups". In other words - EA may simply remove the game from your list and say "Hey, aren't you made your backups?". That kinda makes all the digital distribution idea useless.

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