The big GamesCom interview with Bernd - Comments

[Oldman]

... Someone even mentioned about why not remove the X from the name and that may actually be the most correct thing to assume, even if I understand that its probably a bad idea for marketing reasons, people like familiar things, thus keeping the X will maintain a connection to the existing fan base. That's common policy in brand naming.

But for all I read here the thing that stresses me most is that (some) people would rather have the same game (TC/AP) but with better graphics. This is rather disturbing to me. Since there is only so much you can do to refresh an existing game without it being boring. TBH if it were not for the modding possibilities, I had left the X universe after Reunion. So the single most important aspect for me about Rebirth is that its completely new and I get the chance to explore new things and mechanics. Feed the hunger I long for experiencing NEW things and learning new stuff. I want fresh ideas and possibilities and from what I read thats what we'll get.

MFG

Ketraar

I'm of the same mind here.
It was written on the forum here recently about a complete name change for the new game (dropping off the 'X'), I seem to remember that I myself said roughly the same thing quite a while back.
For marketing I see the point in keeping the 'connection', but on a personal basis I wouldn't have been dismayed to have seen a completely new title.

I also would like the new game to be refreshingly different to past titles, part of the excitment for me is discovery and exploration. I don't generally vote for better graphics either, though the inclusion is greatfully accepted of course.

The foremost feature I'm looking forward to in X Rebirth is the new background map, the 'foundations' of the game area in which we're playing in. If that dosen't quite make me feel like I'm in a vast believable universe then I wonder how will I enjoy the rest of the game...*shrugs*...

Oldman

[Sibilantae]

... Someone even mentioned about why not remove the X from the name and that may actually be the most correct thing to assume, even if I understand that its probably a bad idea for marketing reasons, people like familiar things, thus keeping the X will maintain a connection to the existing fan base. That's common policy in brand naming.

But for all I read here the thing that stresses me most is that (some) people would rather have the same game (TC/AP) but with better graphics. This is rather disturbing to me. Since there is only so much you can do to refresh an existing game without it being boring. TBH if it were not for the modding possibilities, I had left the X universe after Reunion. So the single most important aspect for me about Rebirth is that its completely new and I get the chance to explore new things and mechanics. Feed the hunger I long for experiencing NEW things and learning new stuff. I want fresh ideas and possibilities and from what I read thats what we'll get.

MFG

Ketraar

I'm of the same mind here.
It was written on the forum here recently about a complete name change for the new game (dropping off the 'X'), I seem to remember that I myself said roughly the same thing quite a while back.
For marketing I see the point in keeping the 'connection', but on a personal basis I wouldn't have been dismayed to have seen a completely new title.

I also would like the new game to be refreshingly different to past titles, part of the excitment for me is discovery and exploration. I don't generally vote for better graphics either, though the inclusion is greatfully accepted of course.

The foremost feature I'm looking forward to in X Rebirth is the new background map, the 'foundations' of the game area in which we're playing in. If that dosen't quite make me feel like I'm in a vast believable universe then I wonder how will I enjoy the rest of the game...*shrugs*...

Oldman

Very insightful. I wonder if there would be as many arguments if this game were in fact *not* an X-game, and something totally unrelated in terms of universe, other than still being a space game.

Totally agreed on the background map - the universe structure is always something I've thought adds greatly to the immersion in games like this. I liked the (English, not German) sector names in the X-games, but their structure, both internally and as a whole, always felt too ordered, boxed up.

[adriancos]

Bernd:
We have many threads. And Windows lays those Threads to different Cores. In every Case there are two Important Threads in the Game. That’s different from the old Engine - there was basically just one Thread. There are now two Main Threads which are the Game Engine. Those must run on their own Cores, separated from each other. That’s the reason why you can’t play the Game with one Core alone.
And then there are additional Threads for additional Things and the more cores you have the better. Naturally there is an upper limit to this, that’s true.

Question:
That’s why. The Question was if it would be able to use six or more Cores.

Bernd:
Yes, it wouldn't be disturbed, but the question is more about the Improvement. There are always other Factors. In addition there are the Threads, which are created by the Game, not the only ones. There is always an even important thread, the one of the Graphics Driver, Alone for that reason there are always three important Threads, plus the small ones.

i was planning to change my cpu now with an Core i5, but after reading this i think i will get an Core i7.
i do not want to scratch my eyes when the game it will be released if i will noticed that having more than four cores means more xxx ; more yyy ; more zzz

[ThommoHawk]

... Someone even mentioned about why not remove the X from the name and that may actually be the most correct thing to assume, even if I understand that its probably a bad idea for marketing reasons, people like familiar things, thus keeping the X will maintain a connection to the existing fan base. That's common policy in brand naming.
.....snipped .....

*ahem*...
If this and similar references are to the previously posted ....
'The Adventures of the Albion Skunk'. Come join us in the new adventures of the post-apocolyptic X Universe.
...line (or similar), then that's from me, as it was part of my suggestion where expectations get muddled by the 'X factor' in Rebirth and that it may make more sense to drop it for a main title ... oh dear!... I feel my ego inflating ... quick someone, a pin!

But really, this or a similar title makes more sense and immediately focuses on the main change: The Albion Skunk: 'Single-Player-Ship Game with heaps of Drones and Great Big Universe. Buy now for heaps of game-time, make new friends, and have astounding space adventures!'...

Edit: ohhh, im really getting inspired now... call it 'AAA' for 'Astounding Albion Adventures'.... swat, splat, u oh, tomatoes incoming!!!

[koyuka]

From what info is available, freedom will not be an issue, even sure some "freedoms" may be cut, but others (and imo far more important ones) are added

Let us see that, shall we ?

Removed or significantly reduced :
player ship choice
travel freedom
plot choice/timing
equipement/upgrade choice

Added or significantly expanded :
building choice
tactical choice (ship subsystems)

Overall, a very big loss for a small gain.

As for depth, well you got to be really blind to not see that its promising to be MUCH more immersive than TC/AP ever hoped to be (mind I like TC/AP).

Depth and immersion are not the same thing. One can make an immersive yet very simple game. Besides, immersion is highly subjective.
I do not need cockpits, interiors and other "fluff" to get immersed. I just need the tools to play the way *I* want.

I laughed at this, severely cut 'travel freedom'?? by that do you mean we no longer have sectors and are free to keep going straight for as long as we please?

[Geek]

Excuse my skepticism in this matter, but it seems that some of us here are suffering a case of "It's different, now it sucks", on the basis of "dumbing it down for the masses".

This is again an exageration. Things can be different without being worse.

Did you not read what they're doing with trade? How they're addressing combat?

Honestly we do not know much about trade yet, except some vague references to "stations scan", "trade does not require docking" and more resources types.
I did notice that combat tactical options are expanded due to subsytems and/or drones. Although we have yet to see how the AI adapt to this. Especially since we can not fly larger ships.

Let's look at X3:
First, you could not exit a wormhole between two gates (i.e. you couldn't terminate travel mid-jump).

We are talking about in system navigation. X3 allows you to go anywhere in system.
XR interstelllar travel still use gates, which are not different.

Second (I think you meant to say "can't"): We couldn't go very far from sector centres in a reasonable time.

Lie.
SETA allows you to go up to 10 times further in the same real time. That is rather significant IMO. Yes SETA has flaws, but better have this than none.

And you personally went around and scouted for those things in every sector? I don't think so.

What do you know about my playing habits ? Nothing.
I personaly discovered every gate and derelict in X3R and TC, without help.

Gates belong to tradelanes, that's why they are not "off".

This is only true for busy sectors. There are a number of places (unknowns, some of the outer sectors) in X3 with no traffic.

[Sibilantae]

Excuse my skepticism in this matter, but it seems that some of us here are suffering a case of "It's different, now it sucks", on the basis of "dumbing it down for the masses".

This is again an exageration. Things can be different without being worse.

I'm glad you can see this.

Did you not read what they're doing with trade? How they're addressing combat?

Honestly we do not know much about trade yet, except some vague references to "stations scan", "trade does not require docking" and more resources types.
I did notice that combat tactical options are expanded due to subsytems and/or drones. Although we have yet to see how the AI adapt to this. Especially since we can not fly larger ships.

Right, so can we then agree that at the very least, we don't know if the new system will be worse? For all we know it'll be better. But either way, we don't know.

Let's look at X3:
First, you could not exit a wormhole between two gates (i.e. you couldn't terminate travel mid-jump).

We are talking about in system navigation. X3 allows you to go anywhere in system.
XR interstelllar travel still use gates, which are not different.

According to Bernd, at first in the storyline gates are non-functional. This implies that there is some sort of extreme long distance travel other than gates, surely? In any case, you avoid the question - not being able to exit long distance travel is nothing new.

Second (I think you meant to say "can't"): We couldn't go very far from sector centres in a reasonable time.

Lie.
SETA allows you to go up to 10 times further in the same real time. That is rather significant IMO. Yes SETA has flaws, but better have this than none.

Please watch your tone. I am not lying, nor have I lied up to this point. I take strong exception to being accused in such terms. At worst I am mistaken.
SETA was a substitute for being able to travel long distance in a short amount of time. This has been replaced, according to Bernd, by the local highway system. Yes, you're right, with SETA we could travel outside of systems in reasonable time - depending on how far you were planning to go. By this I meant hundreds of kilometres - basically, far enough to matter. Even SETA would not be able to compensate for a 1000km journey, for example.

And you personally went around and scouted for those things in every sector? I don't think so.

What do you know about my playing habits ? Nothing.
I personaly discovered every gate and derelict in X3R and TC, without help.

That's cool and everything - but I didn't. I'd prefer not to. This is simply a matter of personal preference, surely?

Gates belong to tradelanes, that's why they are not "off".

This is only true for busy sectors. There are a number of places (unknowns, some of the outer sectors) in X3 with no traffic.

Hmm, but does this address the question? In such places, are the gates "off" the sectors any more than in the busy ones? Maybe for one or two, but not in general, surely?

[Bobucles]

Holy quote bomb, batman! It's time to clear things up.

First off, the issue of trade lanes is not one of freedom. It is one of game performance. It takes a lot of computer resources to have thousands of living, acting ships wandering around the universe at all times. The game is very much a simulator in that every single ship is persistent and are performing their own duties, no matter how dumb they may really be.

A trade lane lets these ships converge at common points. Converging ships have more chances for interaction and blowing things up. For small ships, this is a good thing (tm). IMO, it would be a Bad Idea to have capital ships follow the same roads. Not only are they bulky and obstructive, but a single wandering cap might cause untold destruction and chaos in the wrong place (like a blockade, but no one got the news).

Performance demands are also kept down by limiting the overall size of a zone. A single Zone might have hundreds of ships and dozens of stations. By breaking the universe apart at certain points, you can have separate sectors that obey simpler OOS rules, or operate off different threads.

Don't forget that as a PC game, the CPU is going to limit what a game can reasonably do. The more CPU that can be utilized, the better. The more CPU that can be spared without directly harming the game world, the better. These demands have to always be kept in mind when designing a game like X.

Could trade lanes feel restrictive? In a way. It's a very small part of 3-d space. One option is to have deployable jump beacon drones, or a form of speed boosting drone. They'd provide long distance travel for vast sectors.

It would also be nice for off-road travel to act as a short cut. For example, a highway might go the long way around a disruptive anomaly, but your ship can do directly through if it's brave (it also happens to be pirate territory).

[ajax34i]

Performance demands are also kept down by limiting the overall size of a zone.

It's a new engine. For all we know, the "zone" could be whatever is in your LOD range (LOD = level-of-detail, a lot of games show things that are close in high resolution, and once you move away a bit switch to lower resolution, then don't display the object at all or hide it behind haze).

They could have ships follow IS scripts when they're within your field of view, and otherwise follow OOS scripts when you don't see them anymore because they're too far away.

[Geek]

According to Bernd, at first in the storyline gates are non-functional. This implies that there is some sort of extreme long distance travel other than gates, surely?

No, not exactly. From the official topic :
"Gates still exist, but right now.... they do not work. However, there are signs that this may soon change".
This probably means the plot will reactivate the gates somehow.
So you are pretty much trapped in a single system at the beginning - another reason why the plot is mandatory. (which sounds a lot like Darkstar One BTW)

That's cool and everything - but I didn't. I'd prefer not to. This is simply a matter of personal preference, surely?

But this is my point from the beginning. XR does not give the player enough freedom - you have to follow one path.

Please watch your tone. I am not lying, nor have I lied up to this point. I take strong exception to being accused in such terms. At worst I am mistaken

I am trying hard to keep this non-personal.
But really, distorting basic facts about an existing game is more than a mistake, unless you are a newbie (or do not play the game at all). And that is not your case, right ?

Hmm, but does this address the question? In such places, are the gates "off" the sectors any more than in the busy ones? Maybe for one or two, but not in general, surely?

It does answer the "no more exploration in X3" argument.
Gate position varies a lot in the later games.

First off, the issue of trade lanes is not one of freedom. It is one of game performance.

Nice explanation really, but I would advise caution when speaking about performance of a non released game. Especially since the interview suggests Rebirth will be much more demanding than older games. So we have no idea if highways are a positive factor or not.

[Sibilantae]

According to Bernd, at first in the storyline gates are non-functional. This implies that there is some sort of extreme long distance travel other than gates, surely?

No, not exactly. From the official topic :
"Gates still exist, but right now.... they do not work. However, there are signs that this may soon change".
This probably means the plot will reactivate the gates somehow.
So you are pretty much trapped in a single system at the beginning - another reason why the plot is mandatory. (which sounds a lot like Darkstar One BTW)

I disagree - I don't necessarily think we'll be trapped in a single system because the gates don't work. Nothing Bernd has said has indicated that sort of thing.

That's cool and everything - but I didn't. I'd prefer not to. This is simply a matter of personal preference, surely?

But this is my point from the beginning. XR does not give the player enough freedom - you have to follow one path.

Good point - I concede this point. I'll point out though, that there is nothing in theory stopping such "collectables" appearing outside local travel lanes.

Please watch your tone. I am not lying, nor have I lied up to this point. I take strong exception to being accused in such terms. At worst I am mistaken

I am trying hard to keep this non-personal.
But really, distorting basic facts about an existing game is more than a mistake, unless you are a newbie (or do not play the game at all). And that is not your case, right ?

Did you read the entirety of my response? I don't think it would be worth putting in the SETA time for 1000 or more km. My original point holds for the moment. I distorted nothing, except through misunderstanding. If you wish to accuse me of something, assume I'm being unclear, as opposed to malicious.

Hmm, but does this address the question? In such places, are the gates "off" the sectors any more than in the busy ones? Maybe for one or two, but not in general, surely?

It does answer the "no more exploration in X3" argument.
Gate position varies a lot in the later games.

I'm not sure it does. If there are gates in this game as well, then the same reasoning applies, no?

[RedEclipse]

Removed or significantly reduced :
(...)
travel freedom
plot choice/timing

I disagree on those two.
- It seems to me travel freedom is the same or made better (no more max 4 gates per sector) so what's the problem ?

It's the same as before : you have a room, you leave the room via 1-x doors and you enter another room. But in that case you have more than 1-4 NSWE doors. And you can joystick/pew-pew between the gates.

Where do you see a regress exactly ?



- Plot choice/timing : nobody can judge before X-Rebirth ending screen. I didn't read a single point that make me think the campaign of Rebirth will be a "no pause" mission system à la, say, FreeSpace 2 or Wing Commander which are still even now some sort of mythical great games.

What we know is maybe in some point of the campaign there will be exploding systems, supernovaes or something, and we'll have to wait a few days before some clever modder make a "start with a finished plot mod" that is all.




- (Disclaimer : of course if you can't equip drones - but I think you can, this following whole point is wrong and I agree with you).

For equipement "freedom" I agree so-so. I don't like the linear equiping "tree" for the Skunk. I didn't read a line about equiping drones (but I think that would be the same).

But I'm not sure that would be so much of a problem. Define the "equiping freedom" of X games ???? Where ?

X game never ever ever have been as complete as Eve Online on the subject ie ships are not platforms that you equip to define a role like in Eve, they are built-in roles that you complete by equiping them better.
If you have a M4, you know you'll have both Combat software on it but not Carrier Software.
You can, but that's stupid. If you don't have the option (which when equiped, is stupid), then you'll have linear equiping : the more equipement, the better your ship.

Equiping in X allways have been "the more the better". In eve, there's too much equipement and you have to make choices because you can't put everything on a ship. AND THAT MAKE A GIGA-ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE.

Equipjng a ship in X is not as complete as in Eve Online (very sadly) because you have no "Think" part. That's just "buy everything, don't care".
In Eve you have to think before, make choices because even if you are playing on the test server (where everything cost 1) you can't put everything on your ship. You have to choose between the offence-defense balance, the cargo-speed balance, the targetting-sensor balance, the EW-missile balance etc etc etc.

Where is anything close to a balance for equipement in X ? The only restriction is you credits, and equiping parts are cheap ! They did not improved that, that's a bad point but at least they "seem" (let's underline "seem", as I say that by instinct) to have removed the option to put unusefull equipement parts on ships that can't use them. So I don't see a regress, I see an improvement in fact. Or a "stay the same" if they permit unusefull equipement on ships (drones) that can't use these parts of equipement.

[Alan Phipps]

@ Geek: The problem when you use the term 'Lie' or make statements like this ".. distorting basic facts about an existing game is more than a mistake, unless you are a newbie (or do not play the game at all). " is that you are being personal because you are accusing of a deliberate attempt to deceive. That is obviously not the case with Sibilantae.

In fact it is obvious to a bystander that you are both actually saying pretty much the same things while disagreeing only about your personal interpretations of abstract or subjective terms such as 'freedom' and 'reasonable time'.

[Geek]

I disagree - I don't necessarily think we'll be trapped in a single system because the gates don't work. Nothing Bernd has said has indicated that sort of thing.

Wel, please explain how this works then.
Bernd has pretty much excluded any other form of interstellar travel (no warpdrive and such).

I'm not sure it does. If there are gates in this game as well, then the same reasoning applies, no?

No. Both games have gates, but X3 has SETA, which is multi directional , XR have highways which are not. Thus XR gates (or any object other than scenery for that matter) can not be very far.

I disagree on those two.
It's the same as before : you have a room, you leave the room via 1-x doors and you enter another room. But in that case you have more than 1-4 NSWE doors. And you can joystick/pew-pew between the gates.

I will have to repeat : it is not about the gates.
It is about in system travel. See above.

Plot choice/timing : nobody can judge before X-Rebirth ending screen

Bernd has said a few times the plot has to be completed (not just started) before the player access to the sandbox part. Is not that clear ?

is that you are being personal because you are accusing of a deliberate attempt to deceive. That is obviously not the case with Sibilantae.

Since you are a moderator I will comply but (sorry) I do not find that obvious at all.

[Bobucles]

Nice explanation really, but I would advise caution when speaking about performance of a non released game.

With previous X games, large numbers of entities are the leading cause of lag. There could very well be thousands of "living" ships wandering around in Rebirth. It's safe to say they will make no small demand on the computer.

Anyway, here's a quote from the Bernd thread:

Jumping would not be a solution to the real problem: With more possibilities to jump, the space is still empty and does not have an interesting structure. Highways bring the majority of NPCs close together and allows for a much more interesting method of traveling while still allowing large systems.

I think there's more detail elsewhere. To sum it up, the number of ships in the universe are going to be limited by hardware. That much is unavoidable, though optimization and threading can definitely increase those limits. The purpose of the highway is to bring those ships together. This means more chances for trade or war. It also makes the universe feel more "alive", to see dozens of ships going from place to place.

Obviously, the consumer does not need to know about or understand their computer's hardware. All that matters is the finished product. The secret is to hide the computer's limitations, as reasonably as possible, so they don't interfere with the game experience. The sector gates and highway system are a prime example of this. They simplify the CPU demands, which means the game world can fit more stuff, which means it can be better overall.

What I'm saying, is don't be so quick to jump at conclusions of a "restrictive" or "boring" universe. So far, everything points to huge sectors with a lot of activity going on. Their emphasis on multi core use shows that they are serious about making things as big as possible. That is definitely good.

[Sibilantae]

I disagree - I don't necessarily think we'll be trapped in a single system because the gates don't work. Nothing Bernd has said has indicated that sort of thing.

Wel, please explain how this works then.
Bernd has pretty much excluded any other form of interstellar travel (no warpdrive and such).

Right, I see the source of confusion. I consider "another planet" to be equivalent to "another sector" from previous X-games. Hence, if we are in a single *star system*, then yes, we would be "trapped"... but assuming it's big enough (a reasonable assumption to make), that may not necessarily constrict freedom. The question is whether or not gate access is purely plot-based. If not, then perhaps gate access would be a little like using a jumpdrive from previous x-games - not accessible right from the start.

I'm not sure it does. If there are gates in this game as well, then the same reasoning applies, no?

No. Both games have gates, but X3 has SETA, which is multi directional , XR have highways which are not. Thus XR gates (or any object other than scenery for that matter) can not be very far.

Alright, point conceded. Unfortunately I've forgotten the significance of it..? Interesting 'sector' design would still be possible, with correct design of the local trade lanes.

Plot choice/timing : nobody can judge before X-Rebirth ending screen

Bernd has said a few times the plot has to be completed (not just started) before the player access to the sandbox part. Is not that clear ?

I'm not sure it is that clear. Maybe it would be true on first playthrough, but unlockable starts also sound quite plausible to me.

is that you are being personal because you are accusing of a deliberate attempt to deceive. That is obviously not the case with Sibilantae.

Since you are a moderator I will comply but (sorry) I do not find that obvious at all.

It is not my business what you may or may not find obvious. Let's drop the subject, now, lest either one of us becomes even more indignant than we currently are.

[thrangar]

@Redeclipse
"What we know is maybe in some point of the campaign there will be exploding systems, supernovaes or something, and we'll have to wait a few days before some clever modder make a "start with a finished plot mod" that is all.

Oh how I hope this is the case ,but from my understanding Modders will not have access until after DLCs or at the very best Months from release,as it was stated eventually we could/'would be able to mod,to me this means more than a few days

[Geek]

I'm not sure it is that clear. Maybe it would be true on first playthrough, but unlockable starts also sound quite plausible to me.

Well, I certainly would like alternate starts (at this point you understand I am "pro choice"), but since Bernd never mentioned that, despite explicit questions on the plot requirement, I doubt it. Maybe a patch or mod will add it after release.

[VincentTH]

Bernd:
We have many threads. And Windows lays those Threads to different Cores. In every Case there are two Important Threads in the Game. That’s different from the old Engine - there was basically just one Thread. There are now two Main Threads which are the Game Engine. Those must run on their own Cores, separated from each other. That’s the reason why you can’t play the Game with one Core alone.
And then there are additional Threads for additional Things and the more cores you have the better. Naturally there is an upper limit to this, that’s true.

Question:
That’s why. The Question was if it would be able to use six or more Cores.

Bernd:
Yes, it wouldn't be disturbed, but the question is more about the Improvement. There are always other Factors. In addition there are the Threads, which are created by the Game, not the only ones. There is always an even important thread, the one of the Graphics Driver, Alone for that reason there are always three important Threads, plus the small ones.

i was planning to change my cpu now with an Core i5, but after reading this i think i will get an Core i7.
i do not want to scratch my eyes when the game it will be released if i will noticed that having more than four cores means more xxx ; more yyy ; more zzz

I think the later Core i5 has 2 core and 2 HyperThreads on each core? With that, would the game see as if it has 4 virtual processors?

Sorry OT, but related to Bernd's claim that the game need at least 4 cores.

[Alan Phipps]

What Bernd advised was at least 'four real cpu cores'. Hyperthreading is a different matter that players hope the game will use effectively but there is no info on that yet.

"Bernd:
For the Hardware requirements – I have told it over and over – I cannot tell you finally currently.
But I can tell you that it is very helpful to have a Quad-Core-CPU. Doesn’t matter if it is a Core I, i7 or the previous one, as long as it is a CPU with four real Cores."