Split from X-Rebirth Steam poll thread - Round 2

[TEKing66]

Jumee wrote:

TEKing66 wrote:
After trying Steam and failing miserably trying to get a Steam game installed (yes, because of my lowly dial-up connection). And contacting every ISP that might be able to provide me with a better option to access the internet (only to be told that they DO NOT service my area).

What other option do I have other than hoping that a Steam free version of the game will be made available?

I have the Superbox and so could get X3AP for free, if I could get it downloaded. But, Steam is telling me that to download 1 Gig of data is going to take me 50 days (this of course assumes that my connection doesn't get broken during that time).

In the end, I really don't care how I get any game. But I do care about getting it in a timely fashion and being able to play it without have to connect to the internet as I DO NOT care to play games online. Simply want to play a single player game without being restricted by another piece of software or my internet connection.

Yes, I understand that this is DS and(/or) Ego's decision to go to Steamworks. And I understand the benefits for Egosoft. Unfortuneately for me it is a decision that will be leaving me out and behind. The plain simple fact is that I can not get broadband and so find Steam to be useless in my circumstance. And, for me, a DVD with a Steam based game is essentially just an expensive paperweight. I would like to play X3AP and Rebirth just as I have played all games in the X series to date. Will I get to? It isn't looking to be the case. Does anyone but me care? Probably not. Have I accpeted that I may never get to play the new X games? Yes at this point I have! Does that make it any easier to swallow that fact? No, not in the least.

I know this is a pretty stupid advice but could work as a last resort:
is there anyone you could ask to download AP for you? than I think you can just copy it to steam folder and than it should just install it without re-downloading. It might work as many people just copied their none-steam TC to a steam folder to install AP over it without having to download 7 extra GB. If this works then turn Steam to offline mode immediately after installation is finished (with very slow internet even opening the store page can cause some "lags") and only turn it back online when a patch is out and you want to download it, hopefully none of the patches is going to be too big

I do have a couple of friends that have broadband, about a half hour travel time to each. And I have asked to use thier machines for this purpose. Neither want, desire or are willing to allow Steam to be installed on thier PC's. So, that does not seem to be a path I can take. I have also contacted the only cyber cafe in the area. They too said "No" to installing any software on the PC's there. Stateing that they offered the PC's for those wishing to surf the web, check email and that if I wanted to download something to a flash drive that this kind of use was acceptable. But they wish for no software to be installed that they do not see as necessary. I even went to the local Gamestop thinking maybe they might be willing to help, again the answer was "NO". My local public library doesn't have an issue with me downloading to a flash drive, but again, they will not allow any software to be installed on the PC's.

Now, I have thought of a way. What I need to do to be able to play Steam games is to simply relocate. Yes, that is the answer, sale my home here and take a lose on the property and go buy/rent a new place that has broadband access. Then all of my problems are solved.

edit: The reason that I had already looked into asking my friends, the cyber cafe, the library and Gamestop was because the Steam Tech support had mentioned trying this. Though it took me asking questions to them for a month before they suggested that path.

[AkrionXxarr]

Even those are based on other titles which may have no impact on this, as each title may be negotiated individually.

It is, though I believe 30% is the average. Honestly even 50% wouldn't be too bad considering the developer/publisher doesn't have to front production costs with games sold through Steam.

On an unrelated note I think it's somewhat poor judgement to simply state a new thread shouldn't be made / wouldn't be allowed. If someone came around and made a well written, factual based thread regarding the pros and cons of Steam it would make for a much better place for discussion as the original post can be referenced rather than trying to find/reference a specific post on a specific page. It should seriously be considered by the mod team as perhaps a better place for discussion and not simply written off as a duplicate steam discussion thread. Using a thread that wasn't initially meant for in depth discussion about Steam as a place for in depth discussion about Steam leaves a poor foundation for the discussion as a whole.

Honestly I feel that if the mods don't care to support a new, more discussion (and not poll) oriented thread (perhaps kept up to date by someone willing to do so) then this thread should just be locked as its ambiguous nature has caused the discussion to make many iterations over the same topics and hasn't gotten anywhere. Nobody is going to read through the 150+ pages just to find the facts so this thread has become largely pointless for discussion as made clear by people having to re-cover already covered topics which could be avoided if it's all covered on the first post (it could at least be easily pointed to, anyway).

[fairywhipper]

150+ nahhhhh 220+ but who is counting.
about 50 of which contains useful bits and 150+ arg v counter
dont mind me, im just going back to my cave with my own choice of freewill. going to play some game by myself without internet. ohhhh no, we cant do that with steam can we?

[Antaran]

You sound like the Steam sales rep. You don’t really believe that, do you?
If that’s your answer then I will give Steam an even wider berth.

Actually, the fact that you find it hard to believe is rather interesting.

When I take my car in for a service, the motor company calls me the next day or day after to ask me to complete a survey about my experience.

I wouldn´t say that is compareable, it would be more along the lines your car manufacturer puts a tracking device on your car, to monitor where you drive, it has nothing to do to know where you are its just to know what roads you have driven so they can make better cars that handle the roads better.

Steam could also call you each time after each purchase to check on how the service was....

[Jumee]

I do have a couple of friends that have broadband, about a half hour travel time to each. And I have asked to use thier machines for this purpose. Neither want, desire or are willing to allow Steam to be installed on thier PC's. So, that does not seem to be a path I can take. I have also contacted the only cyber cafe in the area. They too said "No" to installing any software on the PC's there. Stateing that they offered the PC's for those wishing to surf the web, check email and that if I wanted to download something to a flash drive that this kind of use was acceptable. But they wish for no software to be installed that they do not see as necessary. I even went to the local Gamestop thinking maybe they might be willing to help, again the answer was "NO". My local public library doesn't have an issue with me downloading to a flash drive, but again, they will not allow any software to be installed on the PC's.

well it looks like the only thing you can do is wait for the DVD, even if it is steam only you can still install it and just register with Steam, even with a bad connection that should be possibly, even if it will be a bit of a hassle
i can understand your frustration with having to wait, I had a crappy internet connection for a long time aswell and was living in the middle of nowhere where a lot of games where just never physically shipped for a very long time (until a big video game store opened) the only choice in video games you had was Counter strike and Counter strike , getting my hands on something like Neverwinter nights or Planescape torment were rare occasions
P.S: CD-projekt apparently did a pretty crappy job in evaluating PCs, since my PC can easily handle Skyrim and BF3 but has framerate issues with witcher even on low settings

[Photon Embargo]

Seriously, I'm happy that these guys are making Rebirth, and everyone is arguing about delivery. You can't have everything the way you want it in life.

I think Egosoft/Deep Silver should be thanked for making and releasing these games in a time when there is a total lack of space sims at all (let alone any PC games with such depth), and all major games companies have gone running off to make a mint on consoles.

Yes there are issues, but how about thanking them for making Rebirth and all their awesome games of past?

You don't need to like steam, in-fact, I only see it as a tool, I don't love it. All you need to do is put up with it, adapt, and use it.

Examples of arguments that are similar and pointless:

A) I hear customers still today spouting the virtues of Windows XP and how crap Windows 7 is. I even met a customer who refuses to use anything but DOS, and that was last year, due to his dislike of Windows - how much is he missing out on?

B) You say the game should be made available in the way that you want it, then according to that argument, this also may mean Mac OS and Linux. For those who hate windows, but love the X series, I am sure there are many who refuse to play it because they got tired of Windows and went to Linux, but can no longer play X games.

C) Your argument is no different to people arguing about banks. A few local branch closes down, so if you want to control your finances without driving 40mins to the other side of town, you need to do it online. But then certain people would insist that all their banking needs should be fulfilled face-to-face, and there should be a branch in every suburb, because they hate using computers. It happens, we adapt, we move on.

I just want to point out that your resistance is as pointless as all the other arguments I've defined above. Each is viable in it's own bubble of thought, but is ultimately unrealistic, because things change if you like it or not, and there is nothing to be done to stop that.

In electronics retail, when you have a really difficult customer who states that "they will never come back again", in most cases, all the staff breathe a sigh of relief that they never have to deal with that individual again. I would appeal to those who feel intractable about the steam situation to not paint themselves into a corner.

I do have a couple of friends that have broadband, about a half hour travel time to each. And I have asked to use thier machines for this purpose. Neither want, desire or are willing to allow Steam to be installed on thier PC's. So, that does not seem to be a path I can take. I have also contacted the only cyber cafe in the area. They too said "No" to installing any software on the PC's there. Stateing that they offered the PC's for those wishing to surf the web, check email and that if I wanted to download something to a flash drive that this kind of use was acceptable. But they wish for no software to be installed that they do not see as necessary. I even went to the local Gamestop thinking maybe they might be willing to help, again the answer was "NO". My local public library doesn't have an issue with me downloading to a flash drive, but again, they will not allow any software to be installed on the PC's.

Now, I have thought of a way. What I need to do to be able to play Steam games is to simply relocate. Yes, that is the answer, sale my home here and take a lose on the property and go buy/rent a new place that has broadband access. Then all of my problems are solved.

edit: The reason that I had already looked into asking my friends, the cyber cafe, the library and Gamestop was because the Steam Tech support had mentioned trying this. Though it took me asking questions to them for a month before they suggested that path.

How about grabbing your computer, taking it to your mate's house, connecting to their network and downloading it there, and then paying a few bucks to them for the inconvenience/used bandwidth?

P.S. I'm pretty sure there will be disc versions anyhow.

[Slashman]

P.S: CD-projekt apparently did a pretty crappy job in evaluating PCs, since my PC can easily handle Skyrim and BF3 but has framerate issues with witcher even on low settings

I had bad performance issues as well. Until a bad turn of luck caused my Core 2 Duo Processor to die. I put in a quad core and it was like a whole other game. Everything started running smoothly...even in areas that lagged hard.

I started watching the developer videos they included in the bonus content and apparently they optimized the game for quad core and above processors...go figure. Apparently 2 cores just don't do it justice...

Apart from Uber Sampling...I have most stuff turned up to high.

[Deleted User]

Happy customers are return customers and return customers are good for business. You think Egosoft have supported their previous games with numerous patches and free content downloads for purely altruistic motivations?

Precisely what has changed NUKLEAR-SLUG in what Egosoft previously did and what they intend to do now with steam-works?

Many anti-steam users would be most grateful to hear your opinion.

[Skillzfire]

im glad to see hte childish argueing is still going on

for those with diel up, its unroftenet, if they gring out a disk option (wich they will because every game does) it should be no problem, even on the lowlest connection you can register a game. and before someone shouts at me for saying it auto updates that can but turned off

personaly i dont care what ego do (as long as they dont use origin) il buy it i dont get the anti steam crowd steam is just a big shop thats on your computer its not some evil divice those with genral excuses thats ok, however the ones who hate steam because i just dont like it, well tougth looks like its here to say and nothing you can do will change that

[the old one]

I was just thinking about rebirth,and i thought how many people will buy rebirth when it is released at full price or will they wait till it goes on sale from steam at a discounted price and a couple of patches.If the latter it will not do egosoft any favours due to less income generated,the old one

[AkrionXxarr]

I was just thinking about rebirth,and i thought how many people will buy rebirth when it is released at full price or will they wait till it goes on sale from steam at a discounted price and a couple of patches.If the latter it will not do egosoft any favours due to less income generated,the old one

People that don't want to buy the game at full price would instead just not buy the game at all so this point is moot. Someone who passes up X:R at release for full price may wind up buying it at 50 or 75% off durring a sale a year down the road. And, again, since the developers / publishers have absolutely no production costs for digitial distribution they don't experience any loss, just less gain, but any gain is better than no gain.

[dougeye]

“the difference with steam being it collects data so it can try and make the user experience better”
You sound like the Steam sales rep. You don’t really believe that, do you?
If that’s your answer then I will give Steam an even wider berth.
My 100k Internet is not great but doable, have some thought for those that want an offline game available offline. Not all progress is good. But if you are giving away free generators, I want one.
By the way I only play Vanilla but have no objection to modders, some end up in the game anyway and make it better.
Vanilla to me is a simple question of competing against the computer inside the programmers parameters and trying to achieve the set goals.
On this thread we are trying to get Egosoft to distribute minus Steam, what is the problem with that.
You like Steam I don’t, simple.
At a guess over 90% of anti Steam posts were a response to Why don’t you want Steam.
My son thinks Steam is great I don’t, we don’t argue about it.
All I want is a DVD for first choice or another downloader who does not want to add an extra program to better my experience.
I have downloaded all my patches from Egosoft so far, Its not broken why fix it.
Sorry shutting up now.

exactly the sort of response i expected, i did not for one minute say that ego "should not" release a steam free version, i did say however that if they choose "not" to release a steam free version that thats just tough luck, not everyone can have everything every way in every walk of life not just gaming, games companies provide a product, it up to you to decide if you want that product or not as it is. they are not obliged to suit individuals because they are completly paranoid about a software company running what is essentially a browser on there computer.

also installing from disc and then registering your game through steam needs no more conectivity / bandwidth than any suitable anti piracy disc based registration you can implement so the connectivity issue is invalid,

also i personnally have a steam version of x3tc and yes it auto updates but when i want to create second installs etc for modding i can use the patches from egosoft website etc no problem. with steam all you need to do is after installing the manual patch you delete the .exe and get steam to redownload the missing exe which for x3tc at least is a whole great wopping......... 1843kb!!!!

p.s no i am not a steam rep, i too was sceptical about steam when i first got half life 2 (2004) as my internet was not great at the time, been using steam for 7 years now as a happy customer with no major issues and yes believe it or not i dont get thousands of emails advertising porn sites and free viagra because steam has some of my details!

[Shugreid]

The PC Personal Computer is Personal. I don’t want someone putting tracking devices on my car without permission. I don’t want someone putting unknown Browsers on my computer.
I don’t know what it is doing, and unless you wrote the program you don’t.
Other companies download games and no more, but Steam have to add “a browser” on my personal computer.
WHY.
One last time I did not say that I think Steam was searching my computer for information, but now you tell me they do. I try to restrict access to my Personal Computer because it’s Personal. I think it is reasonable to use passwords to protect my Personal information etc. I have bit locker installed I never got round to trying it, so I guess I am not OT on precautions.
Did Apple ask permission or make people aware that they put a tracker in their phones? Did Steam say what they are doing?
I simply ask to purchase a game on DVD and play it offline as intended. Make it an online game and I will go cable and do it. But it is offline so my 100k is plenty for updates.
Looking at the specs on your computer you are right at the cutting edge. A lot of our Fellow Players are not so fortunate and as an added disadvantage their available broadband is non-existent. That group is to be denied the game, tuff luck. Next year only people with i7 processors and 64 bit windows allowed. All the people posting on this thread are passionate about X, we all come from vastly different circumstances, why not try to us all in the game.
This is the only thread I have felt strongly enough to voice my opinions. In my years since Beyond the Frontier came out, I have never seen such a divisive and anti-community debate going on. I have said my peace and will leave the debate and if no DVD or a downloader with no “ browsers” attached is not an option I will leave X.
Steam = Losing a lot of our X community

[Antaran]

P.S: CD-projekt apparently did a pretty crappy job in evaluating PCs, since my PC can easily handle Skyrim and BF3 but has framerate issues with witcher even on low settings

Atleast in the case of skyrim I would think that has more to do with how crappy the graphics are compared to a 211 release than anything else, Skyrim was configured to work on consoles (Xbox 360 and ps3), these machines are what? 4 or 5 years old? what we got on the pc was pretty much the same version, so it does not surprise me that your pc runs that game fine since a 5 year old rig should run it just fine.

[Antaran]

im glad to see hte childish argueing is still going on

for those with diel up, its unroftenet, if they gring out a disk option (wich they will because every game does) it should be no problem, even on the lowlest connection you can register a game. and before someone shouts at me for saying it auto updates that can but turned off

personaly i dont care what ego do (as long as they dont use origin) il buy it i dont get the anti steam crowd steam is just a big shop thats on your computer its not some evil divice those with genral excuses thats ok, however the ones who hate steam because i just dont like it, well tougth looks like its here to say and nothing you can do will change that

Funny how you dislike Origin but think steam is ok, given that they are pretty much exactly the same.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

I was just thinking about rebirth,and i thought how many people will buy rebirth when it is released at full price or will they wait till it goes on sale from steam at a discounted price and a couple of patches.If the latter it will not do egosoft any favours due to less income generated,the old one

If you're the kind of person that has to have a game on day one of release then you'll get it on day one at full price. If you're the kind of person that isn't that bothered about the game and would happily wait to pick it up in Gamespots bargain bin in a few months time then you'll do that. The fact that it's released on Steam makes no difference to that kind of behaviour whatsoever.

What does differ tho is that for games that have a limited market segment appeal like the X games the chances of you actually finding a copy in Gamespots bargain bin in 3 months at 50% off is pretty slim. However EVERYONE who wants a 50% off copy of X on Steam can have one as it's digital download.

As a real life case example for you, Deus Ex: Human Revolution was released a while back for £35 or something like that. Now I played the original back when it came out in cripes knows when and it was fun at the time but not a series I was devoted to. So I had look when the new one came out but didn't get any further than that.

Recently tho it cropped up again in Steams Christmas sale for a tenner and for a tenner I thought why the hell not. So whoever it is who actually publishes that game has actually managed to make a tenner off me thru the Steam Christmas sale and if they hadn't put it in the sale then I would have forgotten all about it and they would have made not one penny from me.

So yes, the publishers do benefit from the sales.

The PC Personal Computer is Personal. I don’t want someone putting tracking devices on my car without permission. I don’t want someone putting unknown Browsers on my computer.
I don’t know what it is doing, and unless you wrote the program you don’t.
Other companies download games and no more, but Steam have to add “a browser” on my personal computer.

When you install a DRM protected game from disk, for example TAGES that came with previous X games, do you object to that ending up on your computer? I'd bet good money you don't know how TAGES operates and what it may or may not be doing to your machine behind your back. You may trust Egosoft and their programs but Egosoft did not write TAGES.

[EmperorJon]

Funny how you dislike Origin but think steam is ok, given that they are pretty much exactly the same.

Oh hahaha...

No, they're... they're really not.

[AkrionXxarr]

As a real life case example for you, Deus Ex: Human Revolution was released a while back for £35 or something like that. Now I played the original back when it came out in cripes knows when and it was fun at the time but not a series I was devoted to. So I had look when the new one came out but didn't get any further than that.

Recently tho it cropped up again in Steams Christmas sale for a tenner and for a tenner I thought why the hell not. So whoever it is who actually publishes that game has actually managed to make a tenner off me thru the Steam Christmas sale and if they hadn't put it in the sale then I would have forgotten all about it and they would have made not one penny from me.

So yes, the publishers do benefit from the sales.

I have pretty much the same exact story. xD Except I chose not to buy Deus Ex: HR at full price because I did not agree with some of their design decisions (mainly the cover system, especially in an FPS, but also such things as lack of melee weapons). Anyway, somewhat off topic but I just found it amusing as I had thought of bringing it up as an example. x3

[Antaran]

Funny how you dislike Origin but think steam is ok, given that they are pretty much exactly the same.

Oh hahaha...

No, they're... they're really not.

Actually, they are... they really are.

[EmperorJon]

Last time I looked, Steam didn't have an EULA clause which said they were allowed to use any data on your PC. Which, if the internet are to be believed, is what Origin did. Although, it is the internet.