Round 4 of Would you use Steam for Rebirth thread

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quase
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Post by quase »

Slashman wrote: Endless Space, Orcs Must Die 1 + 2, Sanctum, Solar 2, Lucius, Mark of the Ninja, Monday Night Combat. Those are mostly taken from my Steam game library and wishlist. I really can't be bothered to search for more.
Endless Space is exclusive it seems. Does that help the game? Not if they wanted to sell it to me. I was very interested, even had it on my wish-list in Amazon, but they lost me when they released the retail version with forced Steam registration as well. Just another customer lost.
Orcs Must Die can also be purchased for XBox Live or played over Onlive.
Sanctum has a retail version, but there is no information if this requires Steam as well. It seems to be a multi-player title, so Steam might be needed for the matchmaking.
Solar 2
Lucius
Mark of the Ninja is also on XBox Live.
Monday Night Combat is also on XBox Live.

As you can see, most games are available for different platforms. You do not necessarily need Steam if you want to play them. Granted you may need an XBox, but at least you have the alternative and it is your choice.
Someday, somewhere, today's empires are tomorrow's ashes.
Slashman
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Post by Slashman »

quase wrote:
Slashman wrote: Endless Space, Orcs Must Die 1 + 2, Sanctum, Solar 2, Lucius, Mark of the Ninja, Monday Night Combat. Those are mostly taken from my Steam game library and wishlist. I really can't be bothered to search for more.
Endless Space is exclusive it seems. Does that help the game? Not if they wanted to sell it to me. I was very interested, even had it on my wish-list in Amazon, but they lost me when they released the retail version with forced Steam registration as well. Just another customer lost.
Orcs Must Die can also be purchased for XBox Live or played over Onlive.
Sanctum has a retail version, but there is no information if this requires Steam as well. It seems to be a multi-player title, so Steam might be needed for the matchmaking.
Solar 2
Lucius
Mark of the Ninja is also on XBox Live.
Monday Night Combat is also on XBox Live.

As you can see, most games are available for different platforms. You do not necessarily need Steam if you want to play them. Granted you may need an XBox, but at least you have the alternative and it is your choice.
Oh I'm sorry...I thought we were talking about games on PC. I have no interest in consoles and don't consider them an alternative to gaming on my PC. By that token, all the games you boycotted should be just fine since there are console versions of most of them. :roll:

Your arguments are becoming downright pathetic now. But for good measure, Orcs must Die 2 is not on Xbox Live. Here's word from the developer:

"OMD2 is a PC exclusive.
We were really happy with the enthusiasm of the XBLA community, but ultimately it was a pretty small group compared to our PC Community. It's unfortunate, but it requires a significant amount of time and resources to port the game to XBLA. This time around, we chose to focus all of our resources on the single platform that had the biggest community for us, and in doing so we feel we can ultimately deliver a better product."


Here are a few more games with Steam only releases: E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy and Hard Reset who only got a retail version almost 6 months after release when they released the expansion. (Crap, I have a lot of games to finish...)

Oh and all these games that lost you as a customer are really feeling it. That's why most of them have sequels planned. Endless Space released it's first add-on, with 2 more planned plus an expansion in the new year.
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TEKing66
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Post by TEKing66 »

Then there are games like Evochron Mercenary available on Steam.
And once you purchase them you can also download a Steam free version an play it without Steam running, or you can also play it on Steam.

Seems to be a fairly deep and interesting space sim, so far anyway. :D
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quase
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Post by quase »

Slashman wrote: Oh I'm sorry...I thought we were talking about games on PC. I have no interest in consoles and don't consider them an alternative to gaming on my PC. By that token, all the games you boycotted should be just fine since there are console versions of most of them. :roll:
No I am sorry, I thought we were talking about games. Consoles are an acceptable alternative for many people that do not want Steam. :roll: A console version of Rebirth would be something to consider, but the requirements will certainly be to high for this generation of consoles. I would buy a console for the game. Yet, I am still all for a Steam-free PC version on any given distribution platform and for the sake of it this does include a Steam-release as well of course.
Your arguments are becoming downright pathetic now.
Pathetic? What are you trying to prove? Hard Reset for example is also not Steam exclusive. I already agreed with you that there are exceptions that are Steam-exclusive, but in the same way there are games that are not Steam either. Minecraft, Angry Birds, Deponia 2, Incredipede, Puddle, Mutant Mudds, Another World, Inquisitor and so on and so on. Throwing around all these games at each other does not prove anything at all and you will not make me change my mind that having a game Steam-exclusive is the best you could do.

I am glad if anybody can live without my money and I do not begrudge their success. If they do not want my money, somebody else gets it, easy as that. I can live with that even more as they can live without me.
I highly doubt that any indy-developer can avoid GOG.com in the foreseeable future. There will be releases of most indy-games on GOG.com, sooner or later.
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Slashman
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Post by Slashman »

quase wrote:No I am sorry, I thought we were talking about games. Consoles are an acceptable alternative for many people that do not want Steam. :roll:

Wait what? We're talking about independent PC game developers. The same ones that you keep bringing up and saying that they don't release games on Steam only. It's only something that publishers force. etc. etc.

I gave examples of developers that did exactly that, and now consoles are all of a sudden part of the indy PC scene?

Your arguments are becoming downright pathetic now.
Pathetic? What are you trying to prove? Hard Reset for example is also not Steam exclusive.
Hard Reset, the released game was a Steam exclusive release. The expansion, Exile, bundled with the first game was released in boxed retail more than six months after the initial game release.
I already agreed with you that there are exceptions that are Steam-exclusive, but in the same way there are games that are not Steam either. Minecraft, Angry Birds, Deponia 2, Incredipede, Puddle, Mutant Mudds, Another World, Inquisitor and so on and so on. Throwing around all these games at each other does not prove anything at all and you will not make me change my mind that having a game Steam-exclusive is the best you can do.
Well you're certainly welcome to whatever opinion you have. I never said it was a matter of the best of what a company can do. Some companies find that a Steam exclusive release works for them. That's the point I have been making from the beginning. You were the one who kept saying that it couldn't possibly be true. They were loosing money left and right and failing as a result.
I am glad if anybody can live without my money and I do not begrudge their success. If they do not want my money, somebody else gets it, easy as that. I can live with that as much as they can live without me.
I highly doubt that any indy-developer can avoid GOG.com in the foreseeable future. There will be releases of most indy-games on GOG.com, sooner or later.
A company makes a plan and chooses their platforms of release. You either buy from what is available or not. I don't see any of them complaining.

I don't know about avoiding GOG. There are a lot of new indie games out that are not there. I can't see into the future, but quite a few of the indy games I'm seeing aren't available on it. Maybe they have a master plan for attracting more indies. Good for them if they do.
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quase
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Post by quase »

I was talking about independent game developers, why would I limit that to the PC?

In case of Hard Reset, since when does it matter when a game is released. Half a year is nothing, look at Alan Wake. Many of these games you mentioned were console exclusive for a year or longer.

I would not have a problem if the retail version of Rebirth would come out a year after its Steam-release, but without Steam or on GOG.com. If Egosoft would confirm this today, I would even ask to close this thread because it would no longer be needed. As it will most certainly not/never happen, I like to continue ranting about the situation. Thank you. 8)

Of course they are losing money/sales by making a game Steam-exclusive. I do not see how this can be denied. It is a real lost compared to piracy or second hand sales, although it might as well be hard to be calculated for the developers/publishers which could also be the reason that they can currently live with it because they do not know how much money they are losing with the Steam-exclusivity.
Slashman wrote: A company makes a plan and chooses their platforms of release. You either buy from what is available or not. I don't see any of them complaining.
Really? My perception is different, I see them complaining most of the time. "Oooh nobody is buying Medal of Honor 678, except for the 3 million on release, but we expect 10 million people buying it.", "Oooh the press underrated Call of Duty 854 with a 10/10 instead a 12/10, even though we paid for this score.", "Oooh piracy killed profits on the PC and the second hand market makes it impossible to produce the next 2 hours lasting single player ego-shooter.", "Oooh the damn developers are so slow, we have to release this game before Christmas even though it is not finished, but we will deliver the rest of the game with patches and DLC." and so on and so on.
As said Steam is not the reason for the situation, but it is catalyst and a symptom of what is wrong.

The gaming industry may simply be a mirror of the current status of society. It makes me ill, so I could puke!
Last edited by quase on Sun, 4. Nov 12, 17:23, edited 2 times in total.
Someday, somewhere, today's empires are tomorrow's ashes.
Shrewd135
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Post by Shrewd135 »

Lorric wrote:
Geek wrote:Yes and no.

As pointed earlier in this thread, if an old game is not compatible with a newer OS, and Steam no longer support the old OS (very likely by that time), then you are screwed. Steam is not GOG and will not make anything to help old customers.
Nor should they - they are a distribution platform. The companies or individuals who produced and put the game on Steam should handle that.
This is correct. All companies that make games are making them for purchasing customers. By having a controlled distribution platform that requires to check if you have at least purchased the game is totally fine with me.

However, if the service is interupted for any reason, I expect a hard copy in the mail. Since I purchased all of my games in the expectation that they would always be available.. in the exact same manner as if I had purchased a hardcopy.
Jumee
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Post by Jumee »

quase wrote:I was talking about independent game developers, why would I limit that to the PC?
because there is no such thing as independent game developers on consoles, none of them are truly independent since as I remember they all have to get the permission from the "Big Boss" (console creator) to release their games
TEKing66
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Post by TEKing66 »

I think what it really comes down to is that a game developer is always going to make the decision they think is best for their company. The publishing companies will of course have their way/say and lean towards what they perceive to be the best marketing strategy. This will, of course, drive the delivery method be it Steam, GOG, CD/DVD, or whatever else. The end users/players can either accept that, or not, and decide to buy, or not, the games they produce. Each will have their own views as to what is an acceptable delivery method. And each will make the choice as to but the game(s) or not.

Actually, it is really free enterprise at it finest. Because everyone is making 'their' choice. And, if a company happens to make the wrong choice, then of course there will/can be consequences. Potently the company could fail if the y lose enough customers. Anyway, that's my take one it. :D
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Slashman
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Post by Slashman »

quase wrote:I was talking about independent game developers, why would I limit that to the PC?
Because we all game on PC. Steam is not a console-centric service. And the fact that consoles have no relevance to this discussion. At no time in the past hundreds of pages of this thread, have we gone on the premise that a console release would satisfy PC gaming enthusiasts past the point of Burneyx saying he was going to buy Skyrim on console.

All of a sudden, a XBLA release counts as sufficient multi-platform support to negate a Steam-only PC release. I'm not sure you even know what you're arguing about now.
In case of Hard Reset, since when does it matter when a game is released. Half a year is nothing, look at Alan Wake. Many of these games you mentioned were console exclusive for a year or longer.
And yet somehow you lamented so many titles with console releases that were Steamworks/Steam only.
I would not have a problem if the retail version of Rebirth would come out a year after its Steam-release, but without Steam or on GOG.com. If Egosoft would confirm this today, I would even ask to close this thread because it would no longer be needed. As it will most certainly not/never happen, I like to continue ranting about the situation. Thank you. 8)
You're free to rant on forever, but I had initially thought you were at least trying to make sense. Now I really have no idea.
Of course they are losing money/sales by making a game Steam-exclusive. I do not see how this can be denied. It is a real lost compared to piracy or second hand sales, although it might as well be hard to be calculated for the developers/publishers which could also be the reason that they can currently live with it because they do not know how much money they are losing with the Steam-exclusivity.
I am curious to know how you know what game developers are unaware of in relation to an industry you don't work in. Why does every company have to 'maximize' it's profits by release across 9 different platforms if they are making more than enough to cover their expenses and get a decent profit? If the business is satisfied, why the heck does your business advice count?

Really? My perception is different, I see them complaining most of the time. "Oooh nobody is buying Medal of Honor 678, except for the 3 million on release, but we expect 10 million people buying it.", "Oooh the press underrated Call of Duty 854 with a 10/10 instead a 12/10, even though we paid for this score.", "Oooh piracy killed profits on the PC and the second hand market makes it impossible to produce the next 2 hours lasting single player ego-shooter.", "Oooh the damn developers are so slow, we have to release this game before Christmas even though it is not finished, but we will deliver the rest of the game with patches and DLC." and so on and so on.
And now we move back to publishers and 'AAA' titles. You don't even see when you move the goalposts in an argument. Your point gets countered and instead of sticking on the topic, you switch the subject to something else entirely. The independent game developers are not complaining. None of the ones who did a Steam exclusive release are complaining. As well as the ones who did releases through multiple distribution platforms. The only ones complaining here are you and others who don't want to use Steam. You keep trying to speak for other people without any evidence of what they think or feel.
As said Steam is not the reason for the situation, but it is catalyst and a symptom of what is wrong.

The gaming industry may simply be a mirror of the current status of society. It makes me ill, so I could puke!
Get a paper bag handy in case you don't make it to the bathroom.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
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Post by Alan Phipps »

Once again at over 100 pages the thread gets unwieldy to manage. A new thread has been started here in which ongoing debate may be continued.
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