Split from X-Rebirth Steam poll thread - Round 2

[Nova Scotia]

steams not exactly some unknown program thou, you obviously know what it is, so how can it be unknown ?

im sure u have other software on your system that you even less aware of than steam that could have easily have be installed along with a dvd game

besides, how can you possibly know that steam has passed your information on to someone else

That's what I'd like to know. I've never heard of Steam passing info to someone else that they haven't made public with their surveys.

Hard to believe Steam,Google,Microsoft,Amazon,Isp,Sony,Apple and all the rest of the internet business would use or share your personal information .
Guess Steam is a lot more trust worthy than the rest

actually its more to the point that all these companies and more do it, but yet steam is being singled out.
especially as theres no real way to prove whos passed your data around

its like just pointing the finger at steam simply because they dont like steam and/or valve

Funny from this side of the coin, it seems that pro Steam members are taken aback at the idea and need proof that there is a possibility that Steam could be gathering personal infol for there data base or for resale but would not have any doubt that others are doing so without need of proof

Happy new Years

The original post said Steam gathered personal data and passed it on to another company(or that this was its intention). No one here is saying Steam doesn't gather usage data and(when you opt in to the hardware survey) data about your PC configuration.

I'm asking about the passing on of personal information to another company.

You're boycotting Steam, but you're not boycotting Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Amazon or any other online business with which you have contact everyday. That's not even counting the huge number of malicious programs just floating around the net which could attack your system from any website you choose to browse.

So no, its not a matter of not believing that Steam collects data when you use it. It's a matter of the concept that because its Steam, its somehow worse than all the others.

Stills seems overly defensive for a general statement that could apply and does apply to all or mostly all companies.Seems obvious to me that the poster was mentioning steam by name because this a Steam thread.
How many would come to Microsoft defence .
Don't be shy raise your hands



IMO


Hapy New Years

[Slashman]

You're still veering off the point.

None of you are boycotting those programs/services. But you're boycotting Rebirth because of Steam.

It's nothing to do with being defensive. Everything to do with pointing out hypocrisy.

[exogenesis]

Generally the idea is to minimise your exposure to such 'malware like' behaviour - it is for me anyway.

Sharing of info is an opt-out clause for steam, not an opt-in, you have to
remember to tick the 'no thanks' box when you install.

I'm well aware for example that certain companies that I bought from directly (using paypal)
who developed software I've got installed have my 'information', whether or not they share it,
but they are not some generalised game store in another country who
I don't trust, and are quite likely to change their rules & behaviours at will.

Other common 'bad' things are advertising within the sofware, Cyberlink
do this & it's very annoying, but I can just disconnect from the web & carry on without visual interferences.

[Slashman]

Generally the idea is to minimise your exposure to such 'malware like' behaviour - it is for me anyway.

So naturally, starting with the biggest threat to cut out...would be Steam.

Ok...let's sum up what I've seen Steam accused of in this thread so far:

1) Killing PC gaming

2) Being spyware/malware

3) Valve accused of lying about the numbers and/or success of Steam as a whole

4) Valve accused of masterminding a plot to fool publishers into using digital distribution

5) Valve/Steam accused of forcing publishers and developers to use it over traditional distribution methods

6) Being part of a long-term plot to take over gaming as a whole

7) Forcing millions of people to use its service and tricking them into thinking they're satisfied with it so they use it more

8 ) All Steam users are zombies with no capacity for independent thought

9) Blatantly violating human rights.

10) Encouraging publishers/developers to release buggy, unfinished games

11) Kicking puppies and clubbing baby seals...

The sad part is that I was only kidding about number 11...

[dougeye]

after the initial release of rebirth has past im sure egosoft will provide a manual patch so you can copy,paste and manual patch yourself a second install for testing and mods. It won't happen striat away but i would hope they give you the option after six months or so. For obvious reasons this cant be done strait away as some people are not as honest as they should be

[the old one]

IS it possible to find out how many AP downloads from steam there has been since it was releasedm, that would give all posters an idea of how its doing,the old one

[dougeye]

i can tell you that right now there are 1587 people actually playing AP right now, and an additional 772 playing terran conflict at this very moment! still trying to find the sales figures for it.

edit - it seems that steam do not actually release sales figures for any games. ill check back later in the day and thisevening on how many people are in game today

[Alan Phipps]

I wonder if Steam gives stats as to how many X players are hungover at the moment and cannot even face a cup of coffee, let alone a computer game.

[the old one]

i asked a honest question about how downloads from steam were doing,a reply about hangovers is not really what i wanted to no,the old one

[dougeye]

yeah to be fair 1500 players playing x- AP on new years day after last night festivities is probably pretty good. its around the 70th most played game on steam today lol, number 1 being skyrim with a couple of hundred thousand players which is pritty good nearly 2 months after a game release, the second most played game today is counterstrike!!!!!! with around 80000 players! lol That evil valve and there damn poplular way of doing things lol

edit - add to that the question how many of those players have realy just left there rigs on seta overnight?? lol

[Shugreid]

[As far as scare stories are concerned, I have heard of and have had my information shared between companies not of my choosing, including the need to uncheck the box routine to share said information. Not surprising then that I do not want unknown programmes on my computer. I do not trust without reservation, youth does, age knows better.]

That was me quoting myself.

Where do I accuse or single out Steam as having shared my information?
It does not deserve rabid responses to a clear staement saying that some companies do it and I can prove it. I never said Steam did. What I did say was that I dont trust any of them completely, but especialy those that dont need to be on my computer to run their game, I bought it, so its my Game. With a GameAccount they dont put progs on my computer so I trust them a little more.
If Game does not have a gun they cant shoot me. Why do these other companies, Microsoft as well as Steam want to put stuff on my computer, could be a gun could be innocent. I need Microsoft and over the years have learned to trust them and of course I never question Egosofts many many patches. i dont want companies on my computer I dont need, including Steam.
I do find it difficult to beleave that you have not come accross this. Or is it that you are so heavily in favour of Steam you refuse to see our objections fairly.
I dont try to stop you using Steam.
Why are you trying to force Steam on me.

Happy New year to All

[A5PECT]

Why are you trying to force Steam on me.

Slug just told you. We're not.

Very simply, to correct the gross misrepresentation, misinformation and ridiculous scare stories that have been so casually thrown about by a few people so that those forum members who might be in the position of being unsure whether or not they wish to adopt the Steam route can make an informed decision and are given any technical support they might need while they do so.

We're not trying to keep Rebirth from becoming available without Steam. We can't. If you want the DVD version then you're just going to have to keep lobbying for it with Egosoft and Deepsilver. It's up to them.

I need Microsoft and over the years have learned to trust them and of course I never question Egosofts many many patches. i dont want companies on my computer I dont need, including Steam.

Your issue with trust in an unfamiliar company is yours to deal with. There are people out there that have a similar opinion on the subject, but there are just as surely people with no such reservations.

There must have been a point where you didn't trust Microsoft, but evidently they earned it somehow. Why not give Steam that chance? If you want to play Rebirth, then you need Steam in a sense. Just wait for the game's price to drop, then get it. If you're unsatisfied with the service or if it takes your games away for whatever reason you can wipe Steam from your hard drive and will have lost only 10 to 20£. That's a rather low risk scenario, in my opinion. If yours differs, then your only choice will be lobbying as I mentioned earlier, and if that fails then you just won't play Rebirth.

[Shugreid]

I did use Steam with Total War I did not like the experience for all the reasons mentioned by other posts. I took it off my computer and went back to it months later, same result dont like it dont want it and removed all of it.
So I have had experience with Steam.

[Pesanur]

There must have been a point where you didn't trust Microsoft, but evidently they earned it somehow. Why not give Steam that chance? If you want to play Rebirth, then you need Steam in a sense. Just wait for the game's price to drop to a very low price, then get it. If you're unsatisfied with the service or if it takes your games away for whatever reason you can wipe Steam from your hard drive and will have lost only 10 to 20£. That's a rather low risk scenario, in my opinion. If yours differs, then your only choice will be lobbying as I mentioned earlier, and if that fails then you just won't play Rebirth.

And there is another problem, if you are unsatisfied with the sevice and remove your steam account your lose all of your "steam powered" games.

And before all, yes, i've have and steam powered game, but only one, and or Valve change their politics (for start, allow anonimous activations, or when you have and accoutn and you like to download and game that steam not uses all the bandwith) or I not buy any more steam powered games.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

As far as scare stories are concerned, I have heard of and have had my information shared between companies not of my choosing, including the need to uncheck the box routine to share said information. Not surprising then that I do not want unknown programmes on my computer. I do not trust without reservation, youth does, age knows better.

Were any of those companies Steam? No? Then your point is irrelevant.

Yes, there are unscrupulous companies out there and I highly advise people avoid them wherever possible. However Steam is not to date known to be one of those and until they are shown to be so then implying that installing Steam on your machine will result in Valve stealing your data falls squarely into one of those silly scare stories.

Funny from this side of the coin, it seems that pro Steam members are taken aback at the idea and need proof that there is a possibility that Steam could be gathering personal infol for there data base or for resale but would not have any doubt that others are doing so without need of proof

No, that's just your over-active imagination at work. We know Steam gathers a certain amount of usage information, they do a hardware survey periodically (It's quite interesting). Does that prove they then sell all that information on? Nope, that's just some wild speculation on your part that you've come out with to try and make Steam sound more evil.

I'm well aware for example that certain companies that I bought from directly (using paypal)
who developed software I've got installed have my 'information', whether or not they share it,
but they are not some generalised game store in another country who
I don't trust, and are quite likely to change their rules & behaviours at will.

So your quite happy to hand over your credit card details to some random little one-man software outfit on the web that hardly anyone has heard of.. but somehow the large software company that's been around for 17 odd years and has an established track record of being a decent bunch is somehow less trustworthy?

Please do explain the logic behind this thinking.

IS it possible to find out how many AP downloads from steam there has been since it was releasedm, that would give all posters an idea of how its doing,the old one

Yes, ask Egosoft. I doubt they'll tell you though as unless they're selling units by the hundreds of thousands most companies don't tend to give out that kind of information.

I need Microsoft and over the years have learned to trust them and of course I never question Egosofts many many patches. i dont want companies on my computer I dont need, including Steam.

You trust Microsoft? This would be the same Microsoft that was subject of a DOJ Anti-Trust suit? Frickin' lol.

No, you don't need Microsoft. There's plenty of free OS out there you could be using instead and any number of open source programs you could be using with it. Go for it!

[Shugreid]

As far as Microsoft is concerned, I allowed Auto Updates and when in the Falklands on a Hill in the middle of nowhere it downloaded a network driver that disabled my computer. No shops no repair facilities and very very limited Internet access and as my computer no longer worked, I did not even have limited access.
I used the windows repair system but the methods had changed and I unfortunately wiped my drive albeit unintentionally. I lost 3 Months of irreplaceable photographs.
I have moved on and after a few years of checking every update I now have it back on Auto Update.
I learned to trust Microsoft again. As far as personal information is concerned, I use my computer for all my correspondence and Banking etc. I could not do it without Microsoft and recognise that they would not be interested in my information, but I try to keep it secure, like no stored passwords bank account details etc.
I don’t think every programme is out to conspire against me, but I believe in sensible precautions. Some I trust more than others.
My point is WHY does Steam have to put anything on my computer.
I stll have other issues like my 100k download speed.

[Nova Scotia]

WoW went to bed in 2011 and woke up in 2012

I see the New Year, rings in a lively Team Powered PR debate

Hope every one arrived home safely from the festivities

[Texhnolyzed]

Very good post NUKLEAR-SLUG, it's nice to see that there are some persons left that post truth and with thought in this thread.

[exogenesis]

Generally the idea is to minimise your exposure to such 'malware like' behaviour - it is for me anyway.

So naturally, starting with the biggest threat to cut out...would be Steam.
snipped out the crusade-like stuff.

Steam may or may not be the biggest threat, but it's one I can choose not to have,
if game developers give that choice, if not I still have a choice - i.e. to not buy & play.
Would like to see you run your windows PC without Microsoft, or use the internet without a browser.

btw the crusades ended in the 13th century,
they didn't succeed in converting those 'damned unbelievers' either.

I'm well aware for example that certain companies that I bought from directly (using paypal)
who developed software I've got installed have my 'information', whether or not they share it,
but they are not some generalised game store in another country who
I don't trust, and are quite likely to change their rules & behaviours at will.

So your quite happy to hand over your credit card details to some random little one-man software outfit on the web that hardly anyone has heard of.. but somehow the large software company that's been around for 17 odd years and has an established track record of being a decent bunch is somehow less trustworthy?

Please do explain the logic behind this thinking.

Sorry, but somehow you've really got the wrong end of the stick.

What one-man software outfit are you talking about ?, no one mentioned anything like that.
The point is not to use your credit card direct, which I dont as I said, I use paypal,

steam used to need mastercard or visa, but now accepts 'Paypal with a linked credit card' I think,
not that that make using it any more likely.

Your opinion of 'being a decent bunch' - oh well that sorted it all out then, now I trust them in perpetuity

I need Microsoft and over the years have learned to trust them and of course I never question Egosofts many many patches. i dont want companies on my computer I dont need, including Steam.

You trust Microsoft? This would be the same Microsoft that was subject of a DOJ Anti-Trust suit? Frickin' lol.

No, you don't need Microsoft. There's plenty of free OS out there you could be using instead and any number of open source programs you could be using with it. Go for it!

Think OS & browser debates could go in another thread, & not wishing to spark anything, but....
those who have chosen e.g linux to get away from MS (for whatever reason) IMHO have a reduced
allround capability / software choice - but good on them for sticking with their choice

Web needs a browser, this is easier - if you don't trust google, use any very similar capability alternative,
again it's for the user to make an informed choice as to what they use.

Hopefully without any 'pro' people attempting to put them down for doing it, or accusing them of being misinformed.

[quase]

First and a really annoying problem is that you cannot play games while they are being updated or while there is another title being downloaded. The downloads stop automatically if you start a game or the game is being put on hold to start during an update. There is just no download going on in the background.

Actually you can download and play at the same time. Simply alt-tab out of the game and right-click on the game in your library. Choose pause update and then right-click and choose resume updating and the download will continue.

I do agree that its weird they didn't include a simpler way of playing and downloading at the same time...but its very much possible to do so with no downside. Everyone I've shown this to has had it work for them...so I feel pretty safe to say it should work for everyone. A nice option on the settings page would be nice though.

With all due respect, I am not stupid and I have to use Steam since Half Life 2 came out, but I can assure you that tabbing out of a game and resuming a stopped download only works as long as you do not tab back to your game. I have never experienced anything else with my Steam games. Downloads stop when you start a game. Maybe it is different for some games, but I have never noticed it to be so.

This also does not solve the problem when you want to play a game while an update is being downloaded for it. You have to wait until it is finished. I want an background download, so I can install the patch when I want. I don't want to wait for the procedure to be done within the rare time I have to actually play a game and I won't leave my PC running over night either.

Happy New Year to the boards.
I wish the gaming industry and especially Steam make a huge step towards customer friendliness and protection of customer rights in 2012, but I doubt there will be something good happening in this affair. The whole industry should take GoG.com as their role model, but at least we can look forward to GoG.com coming up with more recent titles this year rather than selling only old stuff. That will be an important alternative for Steam for distributing smaller independent titles I hope.