Split from X-Rebirth Steam poll thread - Round 2

[the old one]

AS i have got my hat on to day i will try another tack to the pros and cons of steam,take 1000 steam and non steam users and tell them to take a long walk of a short pier and some one would do it probably a steam user ,the old one

[csebal]

I have tried Steam and find it intrusive .It restrict you to have an active internet account to play.

sorry, but you and me must have tried a different steam, or maybe it was something specific to the game in question, because I sure as hell can play almost all the games I have on steam, that I have installed, without being connected to the internet.

Sure, to install the game, I must be connected to the net. That is because steam generates a unique game executable for every client that's tied to the PC it was downloaded for. That's about it.

I've played plenty of non steam games in the past, and encountered a wide range of protections, ranging from the simple CD key check, through online activation (similar to what steam does, but more restrictive as you are limited to the number of activations), to outright forcing you to be online while playing. Also hardware validations to prevent the use of certain software deemed illegal by the protection's manufacturer, etc.

Steam is the least intrusive protection I've seen that actually works. No, CD key checks do NOT work, unless they involve online activation of the CD key, but then we are already back at square one as in the game requiring you to be online to install.

Apart from that, I really have no stake in this discussion, so if you feel like hating steam, go ahead. Be warned though, that the alternatives, especially the currently available one are far worse and with the broadband internet becoming more and more common, digital distribution will become the way to go (some - incl. myself - already consider it to be just that).

I like the X series, but I'm not a hardcore fan of it. If it will be one steam, I'll most probably buy it. Other than that, I just don't particularly care what protection it has. From what I know about it, there is just nothing in that game, that would make me go out of my way to get it through channels that involve dealing with crappy discs.

DRM and cd keys you mention do not restrict. the use of my software to having an always on Internet access.

Neither does steam. You are horribly misinformed there if you think it does.

[Slashman]

AS i have got my hat on to day i will try another tack to the pros and cons of steam,take 1000 steam and non steam users and tell them to take a long walk of a short pier and some one would do it probably a steam user ,the old one

OK...that was neither funny, entertaining or contributed anything meaningful to the discussion. So...Bravo?

[Nova Scotia]

I have tried Steam and find it intrusive .It restrict you to have an active internet account to play.

sorry, but you and me must have tried a different steam, or maybe it was something specific to the game in question, because I sure as hell can play almost all the games I have on steam, that I have installed, without being connected to the internet.

Sure, to install the game, I must be connected to the net. That is because steam generates a unique game executable for every client that's tied to the PC it was downloaded for. That's about it.

I've played plenty of non steam games in the past, and encountered a wide range of protections, ranging from the simple CD key check, through online activation (similar to what steam does, but more restrictive as you are limited to the number of activations), to outright forcing you to be online while playing. Also hardware validations to prevent the use of certain software deemed illegal by the protection's manufacturer, etc.

Steam is the least intrusive protection I've seen that actually works. No, CD key checks do NOT work, unless they involve online activation of the CD key, but then we are already back at square one as in the game requiring you to be online to install.

Apart from that, I really have no stake in this discussion, so if you feel like hating steam, go ahead. Be warned though, that the alternatives, especially the currently available one are far worse and with the broadband internet becoming more and more common, digital distribution will become the way to go (some - incl. myself - already consider it to be just that).

I like the X series, but I'm not a hardcore fan of it. If it will be one steam, I'll most probably buy it. Other than that, I just don't particularly care what protection it has. From what I know about it, there is just nothing in that game, that would make me go out of my way to get it through channels that involve dealing with crappy discs.

DRM and cd keys you mention do not restrict. the use of my software to having an always on Internet access.

Neither does steam. You are horribly misinformed there if you think it does.

Guess we are using different steam versions,my versions does in fact load run in the background and periodically needs to have access to the internet for updates and game verification .You can only play offline so long before it demands ,yes Demands access to the internet.
This is intrusive and does not belong with an offline game IMO

There is not highspeed at my favorite ice shack fishing hole

Back on topic


No I will not purchase Rebirth ,under any circumstance, if it requires a high speed connection to play a single player offline game,whether it is and occasional or full time connection.

The choice to use my high speed connection should be mine when playing an offline game not a Steam like client



Happy New Years

[strude]

AS i have got my hat on to day i will try another tack to the pros and cons of steam,take 1000 steam and non steam users and tell them to take a long walk of a short pier and some one would do it probably a steam user ,the old one

Incorrect.

The Steam users will just walk away and play their games.

The non Steam user will have nothing else to do but walk around muttering to themselves about how they should have a choice to walk as far along the pier as they like, and the shortness of the pier limits their freedom of choice of walk length. They will then request the pier builders to provide a completely separate pier long enough to accommodate all the long time loyal pier walkers, in addition to the existing pier. Until that happens they will vow to never use a pier again for as long as it is considered short

[Deleted User]

The Steam users will just walk away and play their games.

With restrictions, you know what they are by now. You and others may be happy with that, others are not.

The non Steam user will have nothing else to do but walk around muttering to themselves about how they should have a choice to walk as far along the pier as they like, and the shortness of the pier limits their freedom of choice of walk length. They will then request the pier builders to provide a completely separate pier long enough to accommodate all the long time loyal pier walkers, in addition to the existing pier. Until that happens they will vow to never use a pier again for as long as it is considered short

The non-steam user still has choices, unlike the steam user who is bound. The biggest single weapon for the non-steam user in his/her arsenal is simply not to purchase the game. Ego know it and I seriously hope DS know it. A regrettable state of affairs for any who love and wish to support Egosoft games, and who merely wish the best of both worlds, that being let the steam users just get on with steam and let those who wish to purchases without the steam requirement do so also.

[Nova Scotia]

The Steam users will just walk away and play their games.

With restrictions, you know what they are by now. You and others may be happy with that, others are not.

The non Steam user will have nothing else to do but walk around muttering to themselves about how they should have a choice to walk as far along the pier as they like, and the shortness of the pier limits their freedom of choice of walk length. They will then request the pier builders to provide a completely separate pier long enough to accommodate all the long time loyal pier walkers, in addition to the existing pier. Until that happens they will vow to never use a pier again for as long as it is considered short

The non-steam user still has choices, unlike the steam user who is bound. The biggest single weapon for the non-steam user in his/her arsenal is simply not to purchase the game. Ego know it and I seriously hope DS know it. A regrettable state of affairs for any who love and wish to support Egosoft games, and who merely wish the best of both worlds, that being let the steam users just get on with steam and let those who wish to purchases without the steam requirement do so also.

Perfectly stated IMO, all most are asking for is a choice

[dougeye]

Booooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!

of this thread,

everyone is entitled to their opionion b4 anyone says it but i read this thread and posted in it a couple of times when it was 2 oor 3 pages long and ive just read the last 10 pages and the arguments have not changed in the slightest and it seems to be the same people still fighting their corner "from both sides" and writing 500-1000 word replies just repeating and repeating and reapeating and repeating and repeating the same points they made 2 or 3 pages before.

By now im sure Egosoft have taken on the arguments for and against and i dont think any of you are going to come out with any more pearls of wisdom on the subject so why dont you all place your votes and then get on with the rest of you lives until rebirth is released, steam or no steam!!

If egosoft make the game steam exclusive thats there decision whether it pisses you off or not they have no obligation to make a game that is usable by people who dont have good internet or people who think the goverment is watching them through there steam acccount or people who think steam is going to implode on itself and there will be a world wide gaming crisis! On the other hand yes if they make this decision it may effect there sales and it may effect 20% of their current fan base who wont use steam but looking at it from a business perspective steam probably is the best business decision they could make right now, developers love creating there games but the bottom line is they create game to make money and get a pay check, either play there games or play another game, simples!!

p.s in case your wondering i would buy this game as non steam and i would buy this game as a steam exclusive which ever the case may be, im in that annoying camp that sits in the middle, my life goes on whichever format the game is delivered lol

the end

Rant over!!

[Alan Phipps]

Recent posters be warned - constructively debate, support or criticise the possible game delivery means all you wish. Criticise or mock other forum users or types of users and this thread or a part of it gets locked.

Please do not debate this warning or use it as a hook for clever responses.

[Slashman]

Perfectly stated IMO, all most are asking for is a choice

Unfortunately the reality is that the choice you are asking for seems not to be the popular or desirable one for developers these days.

You can't really blame Egosoft/Deepsilver for choosing a platform that best suits their needs.

Everyone has an opposition to something. Some people will not buy a game that uses Securom or Tages, no matter what. I don't see how the choice here is that much different. A company chooses to use a specific DRM/digital delivery platform that has proven to be one of the most, if not the most, tolerated and accepted one which also suits their needs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't vote with your wallet. I'd just advise that you not get your hopes up that it will change anything.

[exogenesis]

With over a third of the votes on this poll suggesting they'd like the choice,
a reasonable hope is pretty much what probably keeps us coming back to look at the forums at all.

ES haven't let their community down ever in the past, not counting inevitable delayed launch dates,
seems to me that's a good enough reason to hope for the parallel alternative for those who don't want steam.

When 'hard' CD protection e.g. Tages, was the only mechanism,
what alternative could the developer offer, none, so that's not really comparable to the current situation.

[perkint]

Egosoft haven't let their fans down in the past, with continued support and attempting to provide the things they ask for. Doesn't mean they will be able to this time. As has been mentioned many times - this is Deepsilver's choice (altho Egosoft say they are quite happy about it - and it does give them advantages).

...However, those who are wanting to see all media delivered in the traditional boxed form must surely see that this is never going to happen. - The tide bore no malice for King Canute, but nor did it turn at his demand.

No, but Canute had no influence on the tide at all (and that was sort of the point he was trying to make!). Where as punters do have some influence on the delivery methods used by retailers. Are there enough who will refuse Steam to keep boxed (non online account tied) versions of PC games mainstream? I would doubt it, but then I would have not predicted >30% of responders to this poll (even considering its limited audience) to say they wouldn't use it.

We'll have to wait and see on that one. But people have been predicting music downloads will kill of CD sales (and before that CD sales killing LP which still hasn't completely died!) but CDs still outsell download albums by nearly a factor of 5...

People do like to have something to hold for what they purchase. And I always buy CDs rather than download albums - purely because I can rip it how I like without restriction...

But then I also use Steam - I just like a choice

Tim

[Slashman]

They aren't removing the boxed versions though.

They've just chosen to use their digital delivery service as a single platform for their updates, digital sales and DRM. Essentially killing 3 birds with one stone.

[perkint]

They aren't removing the boxed versions though

And? My point stands exactly the same! If enough consumers use the influence they have, things will [not?] change. If not enough are bothered, those who don't like it will have to lump it (or be willing to pay a premium for their choice, if such an option even remains!).

Tim

[strude]

If not enough are bothered, those who don't like it will have to lump it (or be willing to pay a premium for their choice, if such an option even remains!).

Or if not enough are against the change. You make it sound like everyone doesn't like it, but only a few are doing something about it. It's a real possibility that there just aren't enough people against Steam to make it worth while doing a parallel release. The poll results are nothing more than a pass interest, as the sample size and range are too small to draw any real conclusions.

[perkint]

If not enough are bothered, those who don't like it [...]

Or if not enough are against the change. You make it sound like everyone doesn't like it, but only a few are doing something about it

Not my intent at all! "Not enough are bothered" is what I wrote - not "Not enough bother doing anything about it". I suppose I could have added "Not enough are bothered about Steam" but I thought that was fairly clearly the meaning of the sentence.

Tim

[Deleted User]

If not enough are bothered, those who don't like it will have to lump it (or be willing to pay a premium for their choice, if such an option even remains!).

Or if not enough are against the change. You make it sound like everyone doesn't like it, but only a few are doing something about it. It's a real possibility that there just aren't enough people against Steam to make it worth while doing a parallel release. The poll results are nothing more than a pass interest, as the sample size and range are too small to draw any real conclusions.

If DS are prepared to release a disk version of rebirth or AP that still requires steam to play can you still not see that as a player your rights are being eroded?

The net won't stand for that kind of measure, EVER.

By all means feel free to accept steam, but recognise that the future of gaming is not emcompassed by steam or any other publishers mode of choice, unless you make it so.

It is about time that publishers wake up. They suck up the marketing possibilities of the net but cannot accept the simple truth.

The net was born with freedom of information exchange at its heart. Now they try control it and charge you.

PC gamers are the future of PC gaming, not steam, DS, or any other bull attempt to limit PC gamers ability to play the game they have purchased a license for.

I am going out on a limb here and may well be banned for saying it.

So I won't.

DS if you release a retail version, don't be a dope! Make the retail version steam free. You will get more sales if you do.

DS!, if you choose not to heed this, you will lose real time sales! All I am asking for is the chance to purchase future ego games without steam!

[Slashman]

The net won't stand for that kind of measure, EVER.

Except that it does already. Oh...you must mean the spectacular failure of other Steamworks games like Skyrim and Deus Ex:HR, Portal 2, Left 4 Dead, Magicka, Mount & Blade, Fallout: NV and all those other Steamworks titles that sold like crap.

Please stop acting like what Deepsilver/Egosoft are doing is unprecedented in the gaming world. It's really not.

Will they lose sales if they make the game Steamworks? Of course they will. No single product can satisfy every single potential purchaser. Will they lose enough sales that it impacts their bottom line in a significant way? They currently don't seem to be under that impression

You act like there is some great revolution going on against Steam. Its success seems to point to that not being the case. If you don't like it...you're not being dragged to it by a tether. You can say no.

Now I'm not saying that there won't ever be a mass boycott against Steam and other similar digital distribution platforms...but for that to happen, Steam would have to actually do something that generates the kind of ire you have against it on a large scale. It hasn't so far...and I think they've been building their business on giving a decent service to their customers and improving it over time.

I'm not advertising on their behalf...just trying to stick to the facts.

Objecting to something on a philosophical basis doesn't make the thing bad. It just means you have a differing viewpoint. Your viewpoint won't necessarily be shared by everyone else...and sometimes it's not going to the be the most popular viewpoint.

Ironically, in all of this. People are directing their anger at Steam instead of Deepsilver, who is making the ultimate decision.

[Deleted User]

You answer your own question.

[Nova Scotia]

I be boiling over with grief and madness or Am I just Steamed

Happy New Years

raise a glass of Beer for all that be drinkers and a glass of healthy non alcohol base umbrella drink for the non drinkers

Cheers

Kidding aside ,its not just Steam, I do not purchase any Apple products either.They want ,demand,expect to much control over ones purchase,might as well be rental

Just re install JN6 golf today .12 years old and works like a new.

Will Rebirth be available through Steam 12 years from now ,it be unlikely I will be around to find out ,but I wonder