[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[Chris0132]

The purpose of Steam isn't to be DRM.

I'm sorry but LOL.

It isn't, the point of steam is to sell crap to you. It's a distribution platform, and a much more efficient and practical one for many developers than traditional distribution methods.

Distributing games on CD with a nice manual is ruinously expensive. You have to pay to make all of those things, ship them around, get stores to stock them and advertise them, and then you have to figure out how to get updates and things to the people who bought them, and this for every country and localisation you plan to sell.

Digital distribution makes that much easier. You can sell anywhere as easily as anywhere else, as much as you want with the same initial investment, only paying for the copies you ship (in bandwidth), and everyone can get updates from the same place.

That is why steam is popular with developers, it makes life much easier for them. And as a customer you get some pretty excellent sales and, frankly, a much easier time with a diskless library than trying to figure out somewhere to put all the damned boxes and manuals and CD keys. It encourages developers to keep their games up to date (because they're still on sale 10 years down the line, unlike in stores) and it has a pretty good social element if you have anyone else that plays games, or just people who want to get in touch with you while you're playing games.

[BDK]

It's DRM. Stop pretending it's anything else.

[Chris0132]

It's DRM. Stop pretending it's anything else.

If it was DRM it wouldn't be steam, it would be starforce, I'm not pretending anything.

Steam has a crapload of stuff it does OTHER than just DRM stuff.

It's insane to say 'none of the other stuff exists it's just DRM.'

[A5PECT]

It's DRM. Stop pretending it's anything else.

I'lll concede that it's a form a DRM. But I won't concede that it isn't also a programming, distribution, advertising, and social networking platform that many gamers and game developers (Egosoft included) find very useful.

Just because you don't like those other elements doesn't mean no one else likes them, either. While I'm at it I'll point out that as a form of DRM, it's far less constricted than say, Starforce or TAGES were.

[slimgrin]

Complaining that a digital distribution platform doesn't work very well without an internet connection is like complaining that a cellular phone doesn't work very well without a network.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR...

Wow...you really believe this? The only thing I want from them is a game, not a service, not their client, not their DRM.

GOG, Amazon and other distribution services agree. They just give me the game, no strings attached. It's a sad state of affairs when gamers think they actually need DRM and forced game clients..

[Ebany]

If Steam's only purpose was to provide a service, it wouldn't be mandatory. So yes, Steam is very much about DRM and exclusivity. The more software clients we get in the industry, the less choice gamers will have.

Steams primary purpose is to be a storefront.

Steam themselves say they are not a "digital store", they are "a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation"

Steam's primary purpose is to be an exclusive storefront for games whenever they can.

"Social Networking" as Valve likes to say. This title allows them a unique amount of movement room, from a legal perspective, compared to a "merchant".

Actually, Steam's offline mode will work indefinitely. You only need to login once to setup your game then you can stay in offline mode forever.

Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities.

ok,ok...

So what would you non-Steamers say if Egosoft and it's publishers started their own server for downloading entire games , with similar mechanisms installed that are in Steam?

They don't need to. Make it available on all distributors and host mods on Nexus or any other site.

+1

Valve says that offline mode is designed to be indefinite but admits that there can be bugs since the offline mode consist of many different parts.

If you don't report bugs like this they won't get fixed.

Oh, I've reported the bugs alright ........ for years.

[Chris0132]

Complaining that a digital distribution platform doesn't work very well without an internet connection is like complaining that a cellular phone doesn't work very well without a network.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR...

Wow...you really believe this? The only thing I want from them is a game, not a service, not their client, not their DRM.

GOG, Amazon and other distribution services agree. They just give me the game, no strings attached. It's a sad state of affairs when gamers think they actually need DRM and forced game clients..

Which makes steam the smartphone on contract to the go-phone of amazon.

If you use it a lot it becomes far more efficient and cost effective than the single-use version. GoG and amazon don't offer anything but the game, if you just want the game that's fine, steam tries to sell you on other things and it does a quite good job of it. You've got your steam workshop, community, screenshot uploader thingy, DLC support for everything you buy on it, quite a few nice 'if you bought our previous game here's a discount on our next game' offers, good sales, lots of stuff.

Saying you just want the basic option is fine, but saying steam is doing nothing but offering that plus DRM is really inaccurate. They seem to be doing more or less everything they can to find more ways to make the service attractive to people, which is a bit of a far cry from saying 'hey we're putting DRM on everything and you have to use it, no you don't get anything in return, go to hell', which is what we had before.

[Ebany]

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.

[The_Mess]

This just in, but it's the publishers that put the DRM on steam games, as they could perfectly well publish the game on steam without the steam specific DRM attached. Which is what Paradox did with SotS II until gamespy PVP match making service died and was set up with steam. So moaning about steam as though they're to blame seems rather downright silly.

As for why developers like steam, it comes down to only having to put 1-3 patch version out (windows, mac linux), instead of how ever many distribution platforms and DRM versions there are, easy and fairly robust means of pushing patches to players, development build management and ease of sending out press preview/review copies. Not to forget either, but the basic DRM system steam uses prevents pre-launch piracy* and doesn't have a habit of eating peoples optical drives (hello starforce) or carries with it stupid install limits, driver clashes and doesn't work when the authentication servers are down due to accidental DDOS from players during launch.

And frankly, while the issues with steam vis internet connection issues and low data caps due to ****ty ISP's strike me as perfectly rational. But no matter which way I model it, the rest just strikes me as fairly irrational due to faulty costing of steam as a program and as a distribution and DRM system. Then again having depression has made me much more capable of weighing these sorts of things as empirically as possible *cough*.

___________________________________________
*unless a pre-launch review copy leaks of course...

[Jumee]

Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities

I think they have, problems with off-line mode has become a lot less frequent for me (some other posters have reported that too - we also had a poster run steam in perpetual offline mode (he dislikes it) and he reported success)

[Rabiator der II.]

Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities

I think they have, problems with off-line mode has become a lot less frequent for me (some other posters have reported that too - we also had a poster run steam in perpetual offline mode (he dislikes it) and he reported success)

I could find no official statements by Valve about how long offline mode works until Steam wants to phone home and refuses further game starts if there is no internet connection.

User comments on various forums indicate it is not uniform, I have read comments ranging from "a few days" to "years/never". The possible duration seems to vary by game and maybe even by account.

[Ebany]

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.

Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

It's DRM. Stop pretending it's anything else.

It has optional DRM as one of the many features that it offers to publishers.

If you want to apportion blame for the implementation of DRM in a game then apply that blame to the developer/publisher that made the decision to implement it, not the service that merely offered it as an option. There are after all several developer/publishers who when offered the exact same optional feature said thanks, but we're fine without.

[Inverness]

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.

Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342

You are spamming links to your thread, stop it.

Edit: Also, as Slug said, it's entirely possible to distribute games and tools on Steam without them requiring Steam to run.

[cw8]

Not suggesting anything but I really like the way Telltale handles digital sales. They have their own webstore which sells their games. They also sell on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate, etc. Of course people buying from their webstore gives them 100% of the money. In fact they gave me free 400 Days Walking Dead DLC because I bought directly from their store.
And best thing is they take orders for physical box copies which I have bought and received as well, only have to pay shipping.

[Inverness]

Not suggesting anything but I really like the way Telltale handles digital sales. They have their own webstore which sells their games. They also sell on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate, etc. Of course people buying from their webstore gives them 100% of the money. In fact they gave me free 400 Days Walking Dead DLC because I bought directly from their store.
And best thing is they take orders for physical box copies which I have bought and received as well, only have to pay shipping.

As it has already been explained before, having several different means of distribution makes it more difficult to handle updates. Also having to maintain your own webstore requires an investment that could be better spent on the actual game.

Games that are sold through many different means are also games that tend not to need a lot of post-release support. That isn't the case for EgoSoft and X Rebirth.

[Ebany]

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.

Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342

You are spamming links to your thread, stop it.

As I said, I will continue to bump this "spamming" of the new thread where people can NOW vote and CONTINUE to debate when I think its link may be lost.

As the creator of this thread (TTD) has stated, this thread is about to get archived, please stop posting here and move to the new one.

If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342

and vote or abuse my tenacious habits through a comment of your own. Or just report me, though I think that would be rather extreme, even for a Steam luv'n fanboy

Edit: Also, as Slug said, it's entirely possible to distribute games and tools on Steam without them requiring Steam to run.

Certainly is, and that's one of the options to vote for in the poll, "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft.", this is the one I voted for.

[TTD]

You will note that every 100 pages gets archived. but the thread in remained "alive" for further discussion.
This may happen again,but it is up to the mods to decide.
As I said, I do not mind if the discussion is now moved to your thread.
I think having such a long ,ongoing thread is quite an achievement for me.

However, the mods do not like "bumping" very much, so be warned.

[EmperorJon]

Yeah I think this is a real record contender, TTD.


@Ebany

Everyone can see the thread, everyone knows it's there, bumping is bad and so is spamming, ok?

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread

and vote or abuse my tenacious habits through a comment of your own. Or just report me, though I think that would be rather extreme, even for a Steam luv'n fanboy

You're still spamming this thread with links to one you started and half the posts in your own thread are just you bumping it yourself in a thread that brings nothing to the argument that this one doesn't provide already.