For whole "target audience" and mr. L Bernd

[steelgrey75]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight IMO is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

I now know that any discussion with you on matters you believe you are right will result in a post like this. Shame really I thought your posts were well written and articulate.

[BlackRain]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight IMO is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

I now know that any discussion with you on matters you believe you are right will result in a post like this. Shame really I thought your posts were well written and articulate.

The man didn't say anything wrong here. Your failure to see eye to eye on this issue is a fundamental problem that isn't going to change no matter how much dialogue there is. Therefore, further discussion is unnecessary because it will result in nothing productive. Those who take a more modest and balanced approach on things will no doubt come to a more productive end than those who argue opposites with little to no regard for compromise.

[steelgrey75]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight IMO is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

I now know that any discussion with you on matters you believe you are right will result in a post like this. Shame really I thought your posts were well written and articulate.

The man didn't say anything wrong here. Your failure to see eye to eye on this issue is a fundamental problem that isn't going to change no matter how much dialogue there is. Therefore, further discussion is unnecessary because it will result in nothing productive. Those who take a more modest and balanced approach on things will no doubt come to a more productive end than those who argue opposites with little to no regard for compromise.

Yes your right, point taken. Banging your head against brick walls is pointless. There are some arguments that can never be resolved.

[grimdownload]

Confirmation bias. It can be overcome.

[Graaf]

All Roger is pointing out is that reviewers shouldn't review Rebirth in its current state since it is not finished.

Steelgray's reaction to this, and I'll back him on this, is if Rebirth is not finished, then why is it in stores?

It may sound stupid but as soon as Egosoft launched Rebirth it became a target for reviews. So don't blame the reviewers for the bad launch. The reviews might be blunt, but they are accurate. They don't have to be mild on the product in hope it becomes better eventually.

[Gregster6]

Egosoft have announced that the game is ready to be reviewed.

They did this when they released it.

Is there anything more to say?

[rpek32]

Graaf, Gregster6 +

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@ Graaf: No-one is blaming the reviews for the poor launch, Egosoft have only themselves to blame for that.

As for the software being really ready (or not ready) for review/consumption, Egosoft admitted during week 1 (15th Nov) that they made a mistake with the QA of the release and declared a plan of corrective action. Under such circumstances, it would only be fair and reasonable to judge the product once the action plan has either been completed or at least progressed sufficiently - neither is the case at this point in time IMO.

Although, for comparative reasons a pre-action plan review can give a sense of pace of progress when presented in combination with a post-action plan review.

Ok, the press is rarely fair and reasonable in the sense that I am talking about but that is not really the point. And I have already covered this ground to a certain degree and I know many of you disagree with my point of view - fair enough, no point in discussing that aspect.

There are some that appear to be holding up these poor reviews as if to say all these reviews say X-Rebirth is rubbish so it must be rubbish - hey, look Egosoft don't you know you did bad?

It is a bit pointless doing this actually, since Egosoft have already admitted their error on the quality front and have put a plan of action in play to resolve the Quality aspects (as well as address those deficiencies raised by the community that they agree are deficiencies). Rubbing their noses in the reviews proves nothing, they already know there are issues as do those that support them, and anyone else who does a quick web-search.

[DaMuncha]

Useless game is useless.

[dzhedzho]

@ Graaf: No-one is blaming the reviews for the poor launch, Egosoft have only themselves to blame for that.

As for the software being really ready (or not ready) for review/consumption, Egosoft admitted during week 1 (15th Nov) that they made a mistake with the QA of the release and declared a plan of corrective action. Under such circumstances, it would only be fair and reasonable to judge the product once the action plan has either been completed or at least progressed sufficiently - neither is the case at this point in time IMO.

Although, for comparative reasons a pre-action plan review can give a sense of pace of progress when presented in combination with a post-action plan review.

Ok, the press is rarely fair and reasonable in the sense that I am talking about but that is not really the point. And I have already covered this ground to a certain degree and I know many of you disagree with my point of view - fair enough, no point in discussing that aspect.

There are some that appear to be holding up these poor reviews as if to say all these reviews say X-Rebirth is rubbish so it must be rubbish - hey, look Egosoft don't you know you did bad?

It is a bit pointless doing this actually, since Egosoft have already admitted their error on the quality front and have put a plan of action in play to resolve the Quality aspects (as well as address those deficiencies raised by the community that they agree are deficiencies). Rubbing their noses in the reviews proves nothing, they already know there are issues as do those that support them, and anyone else who does a quick web-search.

They did not suspend sales, so reviewers did not suspend reviews. Seems fair to me...

Plus professional reviewing is just like any other news. You don't stop covering economical issues, just because the government is "handling it".

[rpek32]

@ Graaf: No-one is blaming the reviews for the poor launch, Egosoft have only themselves to blame for that.

As for the software being really ready (or not ready) for review/consumption, Egosoft admitted during week 1 (15th Nov) that they made a mistake with the QA of the release and declared a plan of corrective action.

Wrong. Software can be ready or not ready only for release. Magazines review games when they released, not when they "prepared for review" (btw, press release version it called? or something like that. fix me if i wrong).

Look at this from this point: here is product what i can try and make opinion about it. Good product - good opinion. Bad product - bad opinion. Its simple.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

They did not suspend sales, so reviewers did not suspend reviews. Seems fair to me...

True, but the public announcement was plain as day. Ok, perhaps the shops should have considered taking it off their shelves but IME retailers will typically try and sell anything they can to make money (especially where software is concerned). Unlike with other retail environments a recall order on software is practically unheard of (I am sure there are a few cases of it happening but it is extremely rare in the main) since post-release patches/updates is considered the norm for addressing problems.

Plus professional reviewing is just like any other news. You don't stop covering economical issues, just because the government is "handling it".

True, but normally there is follow up discussion of "How the problems are being handled". Typically this is not the case with game reviews.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

My point is not about the reviews themselves per se, but about the pointless nature of the raising them as so called evidence the software is rubbish apparently in support of some people's views that it will always be the case.

But I suspect I am wasting my time in this thread.

[rpek32]

But I suspect I am wasting my time in this thread.

umm, maybe. Better if you send some bugs to egosoft

Finally, spend the time in this thread keep him on top, so, here is a good chance mr. Bernd read it.

[N3KIO]

game wont be fixed for another 3 months to a year, there is nothing anyone can do.

The game is actually good if it worked, you can see what they were trying to do, but of course its not finished and it dosnt work well.

[dzhedzho]

...

My point is not about the reviews themselves per se, but about the pointless nature of the raising them as so called evidence the software is rubbish apparently in support of some people's views that it will always be the case.

But I suspect I am wasting my time in this thread.

It is equally pointless to comment on treads you'd like to sink

[piep]

...

My point is not about the reviews themselves per se, but about the pointless nature of the raising them as so called evidence the software is rubbish apparently in support of some people's views that it will always be the case.

But I suspect I am wasting my time in this thread.

It is equally pointless to comment on treads you'd like to sink

not at all. Him alone by showing how the zerg runs out of civilized arguments after a single well worded response proves rather the precarious state of reviews, let alone the opinion of people with 2 hours played who stopped because they couldn't deliver 300 energy and all what they have done so far is to repeat what has been repeated since day one.

If irrational behavior is not pointless, then I don't know what this and countless of thread of this kinds are, other than a chicken coop.

[dzhedzho]

...

My point is not about the reviews themselves per se, but about the pointless nature of the raising them as so called evidence the software is rubbish apparently in support of some people's views that it will always be the case.

But I suspect I am wasting my time in this thread.

It is equally pointless to comment on treads you'd like to sink

not at all. Him alone by showing how the zerg runs out of civilized arguments after a single well worded response proves rather the precarious state of reviews, let alone the opinion of people with 2 hours played who stopped because they couldn't deliver 300 energy and all what they have done so far is to repeat what has been repeated since day one.

If irrational behavior is not pointless, then I don't know what this and countless of thread of this kinds are, other than a chicken coop.

Let me explain you the mechanic. You reply to a thread, it goes up. If you want a thread to go down, replying to it is counterproductive. Unless you manage to get the thread locked...

[Orthanc]

not at all. Him alone by showing how the zerg runs out of civilized arguments after a single well worded response proves rather the precarious state of reviews, let alone the opinion of people with 2 hours played who stopped because they couldn't deliver 300 energy and all what they have done so far is to repeat what has been repeated since day one.

If irrational behavior is not pointless, then I don't know what this and countless of thread of this kinds are, other than a chicken coop.

I disagree. Actually I think the Zerg had quite compelling arguments that were well worded and really there wee good points back and forth in the beginning that radically declined on page 4 or so.

In my job I get evaluated and a raise or some extra payments based on what I have delivered and not what I could have or might deliver.

[Graaf]

the public announcement was plain as day.

So the reviewers have to skip their work because Bernd tells them it is going to be improved? So how long should they have waited with doing their job? Don't they need to bring food on the table like Egosoft?

and all what they have done so far is to repeat what has been repeated since day one.

Dig around in the Rebirth Archives and you will find that Roger and I go back a bit longer with the repetitive responses. And to be honest you have been doing the same thing since day 2, when you joined.