Current [POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[HBK]

The whole purpose of Steam, besides allowing Gabe to eat more cookies, is to distribute games and control this distribution. The control part being the DRM part.

And Windows isn't a DRM itself, it does not control any of your purchases, besides your Windows license of course, which is a form of DRM (since Windows XP I think). The new Windows Marketplace most likely is a DRM though, although I've never used it myself. But nevertheless, Windows is an operating system first and foremost.

And technically speaking, Steam can be seen as a piece of software, or as an online service. But both achieve one and only goal: allowing you to purchase and play video games, managing your digital rights in the process. The fact that there are a few exceptions where Steam does not manage your digital rights doesn't change that. Steam is a digital distribution platform first and foremost, and this includes a DRM part.

And just to be clear, DRM isn't evil, some of its implementations are.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

And technically speaking, Steam can be seen as a piece of software, or as an online service. But both achieve one and only goal: allowing you to purchase and play video games, managing your digital rights in the process.

On this basis any online distribution service which requires you to log-in to download the software can be considered DRM in the same vain that Steam is considered DRM by some.[/OT]

[vahadar]

Is is funny (damn i'm jumping in the steam banwagon now, i sworn myself not too hehe) because 15 years ago or so, when people were speaking about Steam, it was the same arguments about how bad it was.

Strange, because after 15 years, people could have thought better of this, as Steam is one of the most convenient platform around (dont like DRM? well DRM existed back from the floppy disk time also you know, tell your pirating relatives to slow down and maybe we'll see less DRM^^ DRM can been seen as a convenient way to protect the developer).

I own over 2k boxed games, it takes a lot of space really, most of my floppy games dont work anymore, CD or DVD aint eternal (silver cd = crap over time), so Steam is just another convenient way to play and store your beloved game.

Even if i still love when a game comes in a full collector box nowadays, i just love it because i collect but for ease of use, availability and so on, i go on steam (or gog, or gamersgate or whatever, so many around). And if a boxed game i owned is also meant for steamworks (or whatever digital game distributor), the better it is!

So i find this topic really useless. People who are faithfull to Egosoft will support them regardless of their liking of Steam. Those who dont, well Lets see what they will say in 15 years when game market will be closer to being full digital.

[EmperorJon]

Steam is just under 10 years old, not 15... ;P

[vahadar]

well, i'm having alzheimer at 34^^ should consult a specialist thanks for the clarification

[HBK]

[OT]On this basis any online distribution service which requires you to log-in to download the software can be considered DRM in the same vain that Steam is considered DRM by some.[/OT]

Of course.

And to be clear, Steam is indeed much more than a simple DRM like SecuROM was.

But very much like Windows is an operating system, even if the actual Windows code dedicated to operating the system (kernel and drivers) is only a tiny part of it, Steam is a DRM, even if only a small part of the software is actually dedicated to managing your digital rights.

As for X-Rebirth and Steam, well, I already use Steam, so I have no issues with that. I'm not exactly what I would call a Steam fanatic, but it has its uses

I don't care for the platform, as long as it doesn't get in the way. Games are the only things that matter.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

[OT]
@Ebany
You need to stop taking everything personal.
What chris said was completely true.
[/OT]

Steam is a DRM. But I still fail to see what's wrong with DRM in the first place.
DRM has become like a curse-word around gaming - "DRM?! I won't go anywhere near it!".

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I don't care for the platform, as long as it doesn't get in the way. Games are the only things that matter.

Could not agree more

[Chris0132]

I think you're going over the edge into insulting other forum users there, Chris0132, particularly in the last couple of sentences--cool it down, please.

My apologies, I am not trying to be insulting to anybody specific, I strongly disagree with opinions based on bad information because they tend to be the cause of a lot of strife in my experience.

It's something of a pet peeve of mine when people make false assumptions and run with them. I will try to avoid being insulting in the future.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

[OT]On this basis any online distribution service which requires you to log-in to download the software can be considered DRM in the same vain that Steam is considered DRM by some.[/OT]

Of course.

On that basis, is not the GoG site (and similar) a form of DRM as well. [/OT]

[HBK]

Steam is a DRM. But I still fail to see what's wrong with DRM in the first place.
DRM has become like a curse-word around gaming - "DRM?! I won't go anywhere near it!".

Exactly. DRM is just the new name for "copy protection".

Edit : @ Roger L.S. Griffiths : Dunno, never used GoG myself. I'd say it depends whether or not games downloaded using GoG are "copy protected" using some GoG technology. And I'd go as far as to say that it depends on the actual usage rate of such copy protection by the games.

For example, I think it could be said that Steam isn't a DRM if the majority of the titles distributed through Steam could be played without any form of "activation". But as almost all games distributed through Steam use its DRM, then, well, we already discussed that

[Chris0132]

DRM is generally more difficult to get around than copy protection, copy protection tends to be offline and thus is circumventable by anybody with a good knowledge of programming and enough time. It's like a wall, doesn't matter how big you build it, someone with enough time and enough tools will get through it.

DRM systems on the other hand tend to be associated with things like a requirement for a constant connection to a server, which is much harder and sometimes impossible to circumvent.

People object to this for a lot of reasons, though the two main ones in my experience are because either they lack a good internet connection/the server is unreliable. Or they don't like the possibility that the EULA might be enforcable.

Traditionally, EULAs have often contained a lot of pretty ridiculous claims and demands from the publisher of the software, but a lot of people ignore them because they figure that they've bought the disc, nobody's going to come around and take it off them.

Unfortunately, nowadays, with online systems which can track your use of the program and determine whether you get to keep using it, people are looking at the EULAs and becoming fearful of the prospect that they might be enforced.

Which I find odd, really, it seems like speeding laws. If people don't like the speed limit, they just break it, when the police catch them on camera doing it, they complain about the police and not the speed limit for that area.

Essentially, object to the law, not the enforcement of it. In the case of EULAs, possibly continue to ignore them because they continue to be pretty ridiculous and I don't think most of them would stand up in a court of law.

[HBK]

DRM is simply the new name for copy protection. Copy protection prevented you to copy the disk because your license was tied to that disk. And that was the only reason. DRM is just a new way to prevent license duplication in a "dematerialized" age.

And the fact that some DRM use online checks changes nothing about the fact that it's just a tiny piece of the software it "protects" and the fact that this tiny piece of software can be circumvented by a simple hack if you know where and how to strike.

It's just that DRM being the new name for copy protection, and "copy protection" having evolved over time, new DRM are harder to circumvent than older copy protection systems.

But it's the same thing. It serves the same purpose.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Traditionally, EULAs basically indemnify the publisher/developer against any consequences of you actually using the software license you purchased. They also set out the terms of use and disposition of the software in question (e.g. Export Control, Non-Commercial Use, number of simultaneous instances of the software allowed, number of users of the software).

The only legally questionable part about normal EULAs is when it comes to restrictions on ability to transfer the rights to use the software (except where Export Control is involved).

The Steam EULA in the strictest sense is a service agreement, not a software one. Each game will have it's own EULA, so the question is where is the EULA pertaining to X-Rebirth (and possibly other X-Games)?

A quick google search did not turn up anything.

[Janichsan]

Edit : @ Roger L.S. Griffiths : Dunno, never used GoG myself. I'd say it depends whether or not games downloaded using GoG are "copy protected" using some GoG technology. And I'd go as far as to say that it depends on the actual usage rate of such copy protection by the games.

All games on GOG have zero copy protection/DRM. It's one their major selling points.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Edit : @ Roger L.S. Griffiths : Dunno, never used GoG myself. I'd say it depends whether or not games downloaded using GoG are "copy protected" using some GoG technology. And I'd go as far as to say that it depends on the actual usage rate of such copy protection by the games.

All games on GOG have zero copy protection/DRM. It's one their major selling points.

the point is, do you have to be logged in to download a game... if so then using HBK's reasoning it can be considered a form of DRM. Which was my point - regardless of if the software is actually protected by GoG explicitly - that is if the Steam service is considered DRM that is.

[HBK]

the point is, do you have to be logged in to download a game... if so then using HBK's reasoning it can be considered a form of DRM. Which was my point - regardless of if the software is actually protected by GoG explicitly - that is if the Steam service is considered DRM that is.

Then GoG is just a DL service (more a digital distribution service actually) with absolutely no DRM whatsoever. That's indeed possible.

And Steam isn't a DRM because you have to be logged in to play. Steam is a DRM because all the games I know distributed on that platform cannot be copied on another computer and played on that computer without Steam stepping in one way or another. Which as I understand from your posts is not how GoG works, as you can copy the game on another computer and it will run without asking for any form of "activation" (if I understood right).

[wwdragon]

I'll be getting it for sure.


I'd still rather buy it from GoG or get a no steam from Egosoft after I get it on steam, though.


You are correct; GoG has no dial home or activation built into it's games.

Some games, such as the Assassins Creed ones, still dial home to their publisher or developer though; I mention that one, because it's REALLY bad.
It interrupts gameplay constantly, because that's how often it tries to contact home.

[Slashman]

I'll be getting it for sure.


I'd still rather buy it from GoG or get a no steam from Egosoft after I get it on steam, though.


You are correct; GoG has no dial home or activation built into it's games.

Some games, such as the Assassins Creed ones, still dial home to their publisher or developer though; I mention that one, because it's REALLY bad.
It interrupts gameplay constantly, because that's how often it tries to contact home.

It shouldn't any more. Ubisoft recently removed that restriction from all of their games requiring it. They now offer an offline mode for all of their uPlay games. They were getting hammered pretty hard for a while on that. So far as I know, Far Cry 3 doesn't require always online and neither does their new AC title.

[Ebany]

@Ebany
You need to stop taking everything personal.
What chris said was completely true.

It was personal otherwise a Moderator wouldn't have asked him to calm his comments. We could already tell where you stand from your previous post's, but it's still unfortunate to actually hear that you agree with such behaviour.

Steam is a DRM. But I still fail to see what's wrong with DRM in the first place.
DRM has become like a curse-word around gaming.

You remember Starforce and all it's various companions. many people don't seem to fathom just how controversial DRM is, or just how many people dislike the idea handing their digital rights over to some company to manage on their behalf.

Steam is social networking offering DRM on ALL digital downloads, they state this themselves. Because a person doesn't understand why a another may dislike Steam or DRM, doesn't permit the right to degrade their choices.

I would suggest you read the the attached links carefully. I've seen many misconceptions regarding Steam and DRM, but Steam will "Manage your Digital Rights" and some people prefer to do that themselves.

..... "copy protected" using some GoG technology.

The beauty of GoG, all their games come with no copy protection

Though some require authentication when using multi-player, but this is expected with any game.

DRM is not something added, Steam IS the DRM. In some ways DRM is an evolved version of Copy Protection called "Digital ""Rights"" Management", it's not harder to circumvent, it just gives the developer or distribution company the right to make changes or pull your game licence for any reason stated in their EULA ......... which normally has a clause "at our discretion" (e.g. DRM products can limit usage of a key to three (3) times only or that one must maintain a constant internet link). In the case of Steam or any company similar, if they have an issue they have the right to pull ALL of your games and unless your rich enough to risk a court case, there's nothing you can do about it.

What is DRM?

Is Steam DRM?

My Privacy on Steam?
*This is an exceptionally good read, a real eye opener.

EULA with Steam

One of Steam's primary goals is DRM, they say this themselves, but whether DRM is wrong or right matters little to most of those choosing not to use Steam, the vast majority have other reasons for steering clear of Steam. This poll is more about discovering the size and mindset of those effected by the decision of releasing X:Rebirth exclusively on Steam.