Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[David Howland]

Hi Slashman a couple of points:-
1. Cannot allow - no control; Good bit of buck passing there, many Steamers have nailed their colours to the no Steam-free arguement during this long thread, advocating vehemently and at times agresively the ES steam only policy, I am sure ES rep.s were heartened by the violent support. Also ES claim that they went Steam only because of the large numbers of Steamers, so do not hide your inluence under a bushel?
2. Why ashamed? Because they knew they were betraying thousands of long standing fans who would not or could not use DRM. Being a merely a successful digital rental company in terms of large distribution does not necessarily make it something good or to be proud of. There were millions of overwhelming Nazis in the Second World War that did not make them good, right or successful in the end, a fairer world force won out.
There is no good reason to tie discussion down to to one forum as steam problems arise with all the X games now. In fact Rebirth forum is an illogical place for this thread as Rebirth is the only game WITHOUT any steam players. No, if you wanted to restrict steam discussion logically there should be a Steam Thread in each forum but really why should steam be the only subject to be restricted in this way, unless ES is ashamed of it?

[greypanther]

I will add one thing, though am aware it may have been stated before; by scoob maybe.

I was ' Steam offline ' for about four weeks no probs, then the other day was not allowed to play my game because my " account credentials have expired." I had to go back online with Steam and re-enter my password etc, and download updates. So offline is limited it seems.

This is the first time this has happened to me, but this is also the first time I have been steam offline for four weeks.

[Slashman]

Hi Slashman a couple of points:-
1. Cannot allow - no control; Good bit of buck passing there, many Steamers have nailed their colours to the no Steam-free arguement during this long thread, advocating vehemently and at times agresively the ES steam only policy, I am sure ES rep.s were heartened by the violent support. Also ES claim that they went Steam only because of the large numbers of Steamers, so do not hide your inluence under a bushel?

I'm curious. If I have no objection to a Steamworks release, should I actually say that I have an objection to it just so it makes people who are anti-Steam feel better?

Also, you think Deepsilver are making their decisions based solely on what we say here in this thread? Because if that's the case, they would be crazy, and if you think so...you are very misinformed.

In any case, I'm wondering why you think you wouldn't get opposing opinions on a free forum thread...on the internet!

2. Why ashamed? Because they knew they were betraying thousands of long standing fans who would not or could not use DRM. Being a merely a successful digital rental company in terms of large distribution does not necessarily make it something good or to be proud of. There were millions of overwhelming Nazis in the Second World War that did not make them good, right or successful in the end, a fairer world force won out.

So they betrayed you by choosing how they want to distribute the game they are making? And apparently this is comparable to the Nazi movement in WW2?

Millions of people died in the holocaust...you are angry that you may not be able to play a video game. Perhaps some reevaluation of your perspective is in order.

There is no good reason to tie discussion down to to one forum as steam problems arise with all the X games now. In fact Rebirth forum is an illogical place for this thread as Rebirth is the only game WITHOUT any steam players. No, if you wanted to restrict steam discussion logically there should be a Steam Thread in each forum but really why should steam be the only subject to be restricted in this way, unless ES is ashamed of it?

From what I understand and have seen, when the discussion moves toward debating the merits of Steam, it is directed to this thread. I have yet to see posts moved that casually mention Steam. When someone posts a long rant about it though, it is moved here. When someone posts a technical problem with it, it is moved to the tech support thread.

[Pesanur]

I will add one thing, though am aware it may have been stated before; by scoob maybe.

I was ' Steam offline ' for about four weeks no probs, then the other day was not allowed to play my game because my " account credentials have expired." I had to go back online with Steam and re-enter my password etc, and download updates. So offline is limited it seems.

This is the first time this has happened to me, but this is also the first time I have been steam offline for four weeks.

This is exactly that steam say me when I installed them, that is needed to periodically conect to the server for account check.

[A5PECT]

I ran Steam in offline mode for four months without a hitch. I went online to update Skyrim and AP a few weeks ago, then went straight back to offline mode. No problems since then, either. No periodic checks; Steam only went online when I told it to.

I've even run AP on my laptop and my desktop at the same time. One Steam client stayed online while the other was in offline mode.

Are you sure your client is set to save account credentials to your machine?

[TTD]

NUKLEAR-SLUG said...

if it looks like a duck, etc.

Except in your case it really is a Nuclear Duck

re current affairs.

As for the last few posts...

Maybe it is that Steam are trying to work out which accounts are redundant or something.

I know I had a similar problem a while back when the game would freeze when I had been off-line for some time. It only let me play after I had gone back online. But I had no message from Steam at the time.

[greypanther]

Well, its a new one on me. this steam account has been active since F3AR came out, first time it asked to verify. I assumed it was an updated feature. We shall see.

mmm, I wonder if my regular system clean ups deleted that info KloHunt...

[Slashman]

Well, its a new one on me. this steam account has been active since F3AR came out, first time it asked to verify. I assumed it was an updated feature. We shall see.

mmm, I wonder if my regular system clean ups deleted that info KloHunt...

Running something like CCleaner with all options on would probably nuke your saved credentials for everything unless you specify. There are apps that clean your system of most stored data...including things that regular windows cleanups wouldn't.

Maybe that is the reason for some people being unable to stay offline indefinitely. Although I have only ever personally been in offline mode for 3 or 4 days...

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

2. Why ashamed? Because they knew they were betraying thousands of long standing fans who would not or could not use DRM. Being a merely a successful digital rental company in terms of large distribution does not necessarily make it something good or to be proud of. There were millions of overwhelming Nazis in the Second World War that did not make them good, right or successful in the end, a fairer world force won out.

If you're seriously actually comparing Egosofts business decisions to collaboration with the Nazis then the only one that needs to be ashamed here is you.

There is no good reason to tie discussion down to to one forum as steam problems arise with all the X games now.

.. and are dealt with in the appropriate tech forums.

Well, its a new one on me. this steam account has been active since F3AR came out, first time it asked to verify. I assumed it was an updated feature. We shall see.

mmm, I wonder if my regular system clean ups deleted that info KloHunt...

New one on me too. I finally got around to fixing my routers wifi a month or so back that had been broke for the previous 6-7 weeks. The only reason I hadn't done it sooner was Steam was running quite happily offline on the laptop and I could always transfer any other data with a USB stick so no real urgency. All in all then probably offline for about 6 weeks say with no complaints.

Dunno why yours should pop that up then but if you're back to running offline it'd be good if you could keep everyone informed if you get further issues like Scoob has. Not that Scoob seems to have been around of late from which I can only assume he's still running fine.

[AkrionXxarr]

2. Why ashamed? Because they knew they were betraying thousands of long standing fans who would not or could not use DRM. Being a merely a successful digital rental company in terms of large distribution does not necessarily make it something good or to be proud of. There were millions of overwhelming Nazis in the Second World War that did not make them good, right or successful in the end, a fairer world force won out.

Are you seriously trying to bring Nazi Germany into a discussion about a distribution system for entertainment? Seriously? You're going to use the Nazis, and by association all the people that suffered under their rule and died opposing them (this part is needed for the negative association you're trying to make to be relevant, after all), as a tool for your argument about a video game and the decisions regarding its distribution?

[greypanther]

OK, will do.

I cleaned up again today with CC cleaner, ( not all options picked, ) I will see tomorrow if I can still play offline. Up early so bed for me now.

[xeon_1]

I will add one thing, though am aware it may have been stated before; by scoob maybe.

I was ' Steam offline ' for about four weeks no probs, then the other day was not allowed to play my game because my " account credentials have expired." I had to go back online with Steam and re-enter my password etc, and download updates. So offline is limited it seems.

This is the first time this has happened to me, but this is also the first time I have been steam offline for four weeks.

That is my main gripe with steam to be honest
In a couple of weeks i may have some time again to game for a day or so and then i don't want to wait for updates and waste half an hour/ hours on my only game time in months and the only one i get for another couple of months.

Now back to reading the forum every other week from work.
bye

[the old one]

Just a thought about Egosoft going with steam is are the puters going to be treated as cash cows.Example,egosoft could release a very basic game then charge you again for DLCs so you could end up paying twice.I believe that is the way games companys are going,the old one

[Slashman]

Just a thought about Egosoft going with steam is are the puters going to be treated as cash cows.Example,egosoft could release a very basic game then charge you again for DLCs so you could end up paying twice.I believe that is the way games companys are going,the old one

If it's a basic game like Skyrim(175 hours in so far and still not done the main quest or visited every city), then I'll gladly eat up any DLC they throw my way. Actually...I may not have room for the DLC.

The ones that seem to be going that route are the larger publishers and developers. EA, Bioware, Activision, Infinity Ward.

There are still companies that release a good game and optional DLC. I bought a bunch of DLC for Just Cause 2 and then never used the stuff because the core game was so full of weapons and vehicles that I didn't really need it...it was cheap though...so I'm Ok with that.

It really depends on the developer and publisher.

[EternalSpace]

From what I've read Steam has ruined the modding community for Skyrim. Before you could just download a mod somewhere and apply it simply. Now apparently you have to do everything through Steam. Auto-updates and all.

[AkrionXxarr]

From what I've read Steam has ruined the modding community for Skyrim. Before you could just download a mod somewhere and apply it simply. Now apparently you have to do everything through Steam. Auto-updates and all.

What you've read is definitely not true. I've been running mods under the Skyrim Mod Manager and Skyrim Script Extender just like the previous games for the past month or so. Every mod at http://skyrim.nexusmods.com is completely independent from Steam outside needing Steam running to run Skyrim.

[David Howland]

Hi Slashman, I was extremely puzzled about your first point in your last reply?
Something about me not facing opposite views on a forum. I thought this very strange as I believe in open debate and my points were about this site restricting them?
Could you further clarify???

[TTD]

I'm with Slashman , as regards DLCs.

Hey,count up how many hours you play X-games each month and compare that to the cost of the same hours worth of cinema films or the average cost of a good night out four time a month.

Obviously there are personal limits as to how much each player has in terms of expendable income,and there is a level at which I would not pay,but in the long-term,X-games are cheap.

So as long as DLCs are not costing above a certain level,I am willing to pay for them.

Although Many,including myself got AP free, and I still feel that AP is lacking in content, I still feel a bit guilty for not having to pay Egosoft a reasonable fee for it.

[David Howland]

Do not feel guilt TTD!
The AP free deal was to persuade Steam resistors to open an account for RB and future games, that is where they will make their money.
It is just a pity they did not realise many would pay double for a steam-free disk, than they would to steam rent!

[TTD]

Do not feel guilt TTD!
The AP free deal was to persuade Steam resistors to open an account for RB and future games, that is where they will make their money.
It is just a pity they did not realise many would pay double for a steam-free disk, than they would to steam rent!

The only problems I have with Steam have all been outlined in the depths of this really long thread.
And the so say "work arounds" don't work on my system.

In order to get AP,I had to install Steam.
Since I had had Steam before, it was no big deal.
But yes, I would prefer a non-Steam version of all the X games,done the same as TC was,where the use of Steam was optional,rather than enforced.

Enforcement is for law breakers , not normal gamers.

And as I will not hold a physical disk of many of the Steam games, I am unlikely to pay full price for any of them.

I would rather pay direct to Egosoft.
They can then decide how to distribute my contribution.