Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[EternalSpace]

Valve aren't going to delete your account just because you've forgotten your login. Sites provide password recovery pretty much as standard for a reason you know.

It's still a major annoyance to me though. And I don't think you can recover passwords if your email happens to be gone too and you forgot your security questions.

[Slashman]

It's still a major annoyance to me though. And I don't think you can recover passwords if your email happens to be gone too and you forgot your security questions.

That's a pretty big batch of bad to have happen all at once. I hope you don't gamble...

[Jumee]

It's still a major annoyance to me though. And I don't think you can recover passwords if your email happens to be gone too and you forgot your security questions.

That's a pretty big batch of bad to have happen all at once. I hope you don't gamble...

i guess that if you bought anything from steam with a credit card you could use that to try and get the account back, but yeah if all that happens to you...

[nap_rz]

so is rebirth guaranteed to be on steam? why isn't it there yet under coming soon?

[Jumee]

so is rebirth guaranteed to be on steam? why isn't it there yet under coming soon?

well, maybe its not... coming soon

[Slashman]

I'm actually getting pretty darned tired of waiting for new info.

If they're releasing this year...there's got to be more they can tell us about the game. Some developer diary videos or hands-on previews...something!

[thetack]

even Deep Silver only have 2012 on their site and you have too look for that too so they dont seem that exited by it.

still theres the steam thread here to keep you all happy

[phinehas68]

I've always liked Steam, since I never had to worry about scrounging around for the correct DVD to play a game. So, I've purchased hundreds of dollars worth of Steam games over the years as it became my primary gaming platform.

Then I had some (required) monitoring software installed on my computer that somehow interferes with Steam's DRM check. Now, any time I try to run a Steam game, the application launch immediately fails. I've looked to both companies for support, but neither one wants to share any information on how their security works with the other in order to fix the issue. From their perspective, this is perfectly reasonable, but I now have hundreds of dollars worth of games that I CANNOT play. (As a designer working in the industry, I detest pirating and will not consider it as an option.)

Further, any game that requires the Steam client is no longer an option for purchase. Though I would much prefer to play Skyrim on my PC, I had to buy it for my XBOX instead. Computer gaming in general has taken a huge hit for me. So, I will not purchase Rebirth if Steam is required, not as some sort of statement about digital rights or privacy, but as a purely practical matter: I wouldn't be able to play it in any case. This makes me very sad, because I really believe in Egosoft and their games and would like to continue to support their efforts by purchasing their games.

I suspect that when you cede control over digital media purchases to a third party, THIS sort of scenario will always have the potential to arise.

[Slashman]

I suspect that when you cede control over digital media purchases to a third party, THIS sort of scenario will always have the potential to arise.

That's a pretty bad situation right there.

Can I assume that the monitoring software you use has to be installed on ANY PC you own? Or could you circumvent it by using a separate box for gaming than you do for work(I'm assuming that this is a work-related requirement)?

[TTD]

I am just wondering if any other user on here has had similar problems.
Maybe if you van name the monitoring software,someone with experience might know a solution.

Unfortunately ,for you, I just use " domestic " firewalls etc ,rather than expensive industrial ones,so I can't help.
I just make the comment above ,in case some else can.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

Then I had some (required) monitoring software installed on my computer that somehow interferes with Steam's DRM check. Now, any time I try to run a Steam game, the application launch immediately fails. I've looked to both companies for support, but neither one wants to share any information on how their security works with the other in order to fix the issue. From their perspective, this is perfectly reasonable, but I now have hundreds of dollars worth of games that I CANNOT play. (As a designer working in the industry, I detest pirating and will not consider it as an option.)

On the assumption that this is a work computer you're using then it's not really that much of a surprise that this situation could arise as companies are notoriously finicky about what they allow on work machines. I don't however see how this would in any way prevent you installing Steam on a machine of your own at home and playing as normal.

[EternalSpace]

Egosoft could remove the DVD-check if you had a unique CD-Key. I don't see why this isn't the system companies are using. It's much cheaper to maintain and is the least bothersome for customers. Someone might point out that it's the easiest for pirates to crack and the least effective DRM. Well every DRM is the least effective DRM because every single one gets cracked within not even 24 hours of release even if it's Steam based. All these "online" DRMs do is prevent people from updating their game, that's it. But they still have the game and you made no money from them. Most patches, especially for popular games, get cracked the same way anyway. Including DLC!

And let's say you do indeed block all the pirates. Not like that will ever happen though. But say you do. Then that won't force them to buy your game they will just find a different game to play.

[Slashman]

Egosoft could remove the DVD-check if you had a unique CD-Key. I don't see why this isn't the system companies are using. It's much cheaper to maintain and is the least bothersome for customers. Someone might point out that it's the easiest for pirates to crack and the least effective DRM. Well every DRM is the least effective DRM because every single one gets cracked within not even 24 hours of release even if it's Steam based. All these "online" DRMs do is prevent people from updating their game, that's it. But they still have the game and you made no money from them. Most patches, especially for popular games, get cracked the same way anyway. Including DLC!

And let's say you do indeed block all the pirates. Not like that will ever happen though. But say you do. Then that won't force them to buy your game they will just find a different game to play.

The move to Steamworks isn't, as far as I can tell from what Bernd has said, about DRM(which is not a topic we are supposed to discuss here in any case as per moderators' orders). It's about having a unified platform for all updates and the community and developer features that Steam offers. This was one of the first things which was said when this thread began. And in any case, Steamworks does absolutely prevent Zero-day piracy i.e. leaked copies, from working until the activation is allowed on Steam.

[gmf1]

I don't get what is wrong with steam? One of my friends hates steam, but can't give me a real answer. IT'S DRM! It's evil! But really i love steam i can store all my game disks away and if i format my computer i just download all my games again. I have never had any issues with steam. What annoys me is ea origin and games for windows live taking exclusives, i'd rather have every game on steam then have to use them.

[goslin]

I certaintly didn't just read 92 pages of the previous discussion... but just wan't to say something as a member of the games industry: steam basically is PC gaming.

Anecdotally, I wouldn't have heard of X3 if it wasn't available on steam and everyone I know who plays PC games (who actually paid for them) bought them on Steam. Egosoft is not such a large company that they can spend Blizzard-Bucks advertising and expect to sell an equal number of copies whether they are on Steam or not.

I am not privy to this information, but I suspect that profit from non-steam sales for existing Egosoft games is a very small fraction of the whole. And because of that, unless the effort required to continue supporting two avenues of sale is close to nothing, there isn't much point in doing so.

I suspect that regardless of what anyone has voted on this poll or posted in this thread ... anyone here, in this forum - for this super hardcore game ... obviously likes it a lot. And noone else is making a game like-this-but-better-and-not-on-steam.

[JClosed]

@goslin - Are you trying to say that everybody not in deep love with Steam does pirate software?

If so - I feel really offended, because I do not like Steam at all - but I am also against piracy. Stating that not drooling for Steam means you are a pirate is increadably short-sighted in my opininon.

Really - A lot of people have pointed out why they do not like to use steam (I won't go into the details because you can read all about it in this tread), and their reasons have nothing to do with piracy at all!!!!

[goslin]

No my main point wasn't about piracy. I have edited out the first part because it was really just a distraction.

[David Howland]

gmf1 You actually do not understand why people do not like DRM?
Have you not been reading this thread? The reasons have been repeatedly gone over but I will briefly put the position, for you! Firstly your friend who you thought could not give you a REAL answer, could have but would not, because he realised that you are such a steam fan that your mind is not open enough, to see another view!
Firstly not wanting DRM has NOTHING to do with denying fans like yourself or companies like ES from using these services if you wish. For small games companies, Steam provides a good sized ready made rental market of players like yourself, providing convenience and profit for both parties.
No all we want is, for Steamers like you to allow us to enjoy the same games free of that rental system for the following reasons:-
1. We simply wish to play the game on our computer anywhere, anytime WE WANT, independent of the internet, in short we enjoy the old fashioned concept of owning the games we play not being enslaved by a DRM rental system. Some of us do not even have an internet connection available to allow Steam usage, others simply have such a love for the computer, that we do not wish to treat this wonderful machine as a mere telephone receiver, which is what, a computer permanently tethered to the internet, is!
2. We wish to play these wonderful games limited only the game itself, our computers limitations and our own abilities. We do not wish to be controlled by a Big Brother, over ambitious, dictatorial rental company. Bear in mind that Steam not only controls the way the game runs but also the operating system around it and if steam do not approve of any software on you computer, will forbid you to use it with their system. By the time you have entered the necessary exceptions for DRM to run, you may as well have no internet security running at all. Also if you fall out with Steam, they will pull the plug on your membership and all those hundreds of pounds you have spent on 'your' precious games will be wasted!
3. There is the infectious nature of the DRM Big Brother control. For instance have you not thought it odd, that ES says this system is so wonderful, that they want all players to use it for their latest games BUT they are so ashamed of steam they will not allow it to be freely discussed throughout these forums, or allow players to buy these games on a STEAM FREE alternative?

gmf1 THE CHOICE IS YOURS but not ours!

[Slashman]

No all we want is, for Steamers like you to allow us to enjoy the same games free of that rental system for the following reasons:...

We're not the ones forcing Deepsilver to use Steamworks, though. We can't 'allow' you to do something we have no control over.

For instance have you not thought it odd, that ES says this system is so wonderful, that they want all players to use it for their latest games BUT they are so ashamed of steam they will not allow it to be freely discussed throughout these forums, or allow players to buy these games on a STEAM FREE alternative?

This is rather funny. Egosoft is 'ashamed' of using the most successful digital distribution platform in existence. I guess that must be akin to the 'shame' felt by Bethesda for using it for Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim(one of the best selling PC releases to date), and the 'shame' felt by Square Enix for using it for Just Cause 2 and Dues Ex: Human Revolution. That shame sure seems to be spreading at a rapid rate...

Steam discussion is limited to this thread because it makes sense to have all the discourse on a specific topic be in one place so that people aren't posting redundant info or starting redundant polls etc. I've had topics I've started on these forums merged into other threads as well. It keeps things tidy.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

gmf1 You actually do not understand why people do not like DRM?
Have you not been reading this thread? The reasons have been repeatedly gone over but I will briefly put the position, for you! Firstly your friend who you though could not give you a REAL answer, could have but would not, because he realised that you are such a steam fan that your mind is not open enough, to see another view!

Or maybe it's exactly how gmf1 said it is and his friend just couldn't come up with a good reason.. Not everything has to be some super-complicated conspiracy. Most of the time if it looks like a duck, etc..

We do not wish to be controlled by a Big Brother, over ambitious, dictatorial rental company. Bear in mind that Steam not only controls the way the game runs but also the operating system around it and if steam do not approve of any software on you computer, will forbid you to use it with their system.

This is a ridiculous argument. Steam makes no more demands on what OS you're running than any other Windows program. It's a Windows application, of course it requires Windows! X games are Windows programs, but I'm not hearing you complain about being forced to have a Microsoft OS installed to play TC.

By the time you have entered the necessary exceptions for DRM to run, you may as well have no internet security running at all. Also if you fall out with Steam, they will pull the plug on your membership and all those hundreds of pounds you have spent on 'your' precious games will be wasted!

More rubbish. Steam is no more a security risk than your web browser. If you're that paranoid about the internet then you can run the offline mode and stay permanently disconnected from the big bad WWW . Scoob seems to manage doing exactly that just fine.

Also Steam do not arbitrarily roll a few dice in the morning and then ban accounts accordingly. Sure, if you're misbehaving and breaking the TOS then you should fully expect to have your account revoked. Tough luck and don't expect any sympathy. Next time behave.

3. There is the infectious nature of the DRM Big Brother control. For instance have you not thought it odd, that ES says this system is so wonderful, that they want all players to use it for their latest games BUT they are so ashamed of steam they will not allow it to be freely discussed throughout these forums, or allow players to buy these games on a STEAM FREE alternative?

You're freely allowed to discuss Steam and Steam related issues as evidenced by your own post right here in this thread. What you're not allowed to do is go off on a personal crusade and generally cause trouble across the board which is presumably what you're hinting at. It's Egosofts forum, if they want to keep things nice and organised then that's their choice. If they wish to ban all Steam discussion then that's also their choice. They've chosen not to.

As to making the game available Steam-free, that's again their choice. If they feel it's in their business interests to only release on a particular platform then they have that right. Just because you've purchased their products in the past doesn't mean you get to decide how they run their company.