Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[Slashman]

Valve

Heh...and of course that would be the one I forgot.

Probably because I'm used to thinking of them as more of a digital publisher now than a dev studio...but they do still make games so yeah...that would count.

Oh and there are also things like this.

[Mightysword]

- Iron Lore "went" under, as in, they bankrupted after Titan Quest. I was on their forum when it happened, and it was really bitter for them knowing they will be fired once the game is finished. I don't know if they actually started up again, but that's a big difference from going indie.

- CD Project IMO doesn't really count, and even if it does, it's still one of the very few exception like Bungie.

- And Valve ... common, not exactly a good example isn't it. They are more like the case of in-house developers rather than an indie. That's like saying Blizzard is an indie developer ...

In any case Egosoft has a long way to go before they can even remotely come close to those developers.

It might just mean that dev teams under publishers generally prefer to stick with them because its less risky to use someone else's money to build a game.

Sticking to a publishers as a safety measure can be the case of powerful studios that while they can publish by themselves, they still want to use the resource of a publisher for distribution and advertisement expertise. They tend to have a strong case to "shop" for a publisher. CD Project or Bioware (before the merge) are like this. Often though, an average studio sticks with a publisher because they have to.

[TBV]

You're making the assumption there that Deepsilver are paying Egosoft a fixed amount per copy sold. If in fact they were paying Egosoft a percentage of sales then the saving that Deepsilver make retailing on Steam would translate into a greater profit per copy for Deepsilver which in turn would result in a greater profit per copy for Egosoft.

I am under the assumption that the publisher is always at the top of the food-chain. It would be in Deepsilver's interest to negotiate an initial deal
based on a fixed amount per copy sold and then seek further profits further down the line as it would be entirely their decision after that.
After all publishers are all-powerful like Chuck Norris.
If Ego wanted a better deal they could always shop around for a different publisher, but I suspect they aren't exactly beating publishers off with a stick
given that it's such a niche game.

It may well be a case of like it or lump it.

[Alan Phipps]

[Off Topic]
Has anyone else noticed how 'Would you use Steam for Rebirth?' recently seems to have turned into 'How should Egosoft/DeepSilver best profit from Rebirth?'?

Isn't that a business process best left to Egosoft and partners?
[/Off Topic]

[TBV]

I think we're just speculating about whether the decision to go just with
steam is financial, logistical or not up to them at all.

Besides, after nearly 300 pages it's probably to be expected. Makes a change from the endless circles making us all dizzy.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

I am under the assumption that the publisher is always at the top of the food-chain. It would be in Deepsilver's interest to negotiate an initial deal
based on a fixed amount per copy sold and then seek further profits further down the line as it would be entirely their decision after that.
After all publishers are all-powerful like Chuck Norris.

They could take a lions share percentage and still be at the top of the food chain. It could also be said that it's not in Deepsilvers interest to negotiate a fixed price as once the initial sales have declined any future sales at a lower price point, for example Steam sales, would result in them having to hand over all or practically all of any profit would it not?

[Off Topic]
Has anyone else noticed how 'Would you use Steam for Rebirth?' recently seems to have turned into 'How should Egosoft/DeepSilver best profit from Rebirth?'?

Isn't that a business process best left to Egosoft and partners?
[/Off Topic]

Indeed, but since the thread rapidly devolved from page 1 into an argument over whether Egosoft should have the right to make their own business decisions if it impinges on the wishes or perceived 'rights' of the vocal minority then that's probably not so surprising..

[TBV]

It could also be said that it's not in Deepsilvers interest to negotiate a fixed price as once the initial sales have declined any future sales at a lower price point, for example Steam sales, would result in them having to hand over all or practically all of any profit would it not?

Indeed. But knowing that discount sales are inevitable at some point might
enable Deepsilver to negotiate a lower fixed-price to begin with.
I suspect their mercenary skills will be very good indeed, much more
sophisticated than "I've got six kids to feed" etc.

[thetack]

as the forum seems to have split hate steam / love steam and any resonable argument has been exhasted only the gods and moderators know where this thread is going
seriously is there any real update on the german or other threads from bernd on whats going to happen, as he i guess is the only one who knows if a steam free gold edition is possible in a year or twos time, and i realy dont want to bother him with a plee from the plebs

[Slashman]

[Off Topic]
Has anyone else noticed how 'Would you use Steam for Rebirth?' recently seems to have turned into 'How should Egosoft/DeepSilver best profit from Rebirth?'?

Isn't that a business process best left to Egosoft and partners?
[/Off Topic]

I wholeheartedly agree that it is best left to Deepsilver and Egosoft to decide what is more profitable for their product. But everyone is a business expert in their spare time and we all know better than some silly companies who have been in business for years.

[TEKing66]

Yes I agree, this thread has caused much heart ache and hard feelings amongst this community. Nothing more can come of a thread such as this, once a published, producer or any head of any company makes a decision they tend ti stick to it. Sometimes it is the correct decision, sometimes not, until that is clear they can't change their mind mide stream, it looks to wishy-washy for a leader.

Steam is here to stay people, deal with it! I am.

[TBV]

Steam is here to stay people, deal with it! I am.

As has been said many times, some people cannot deal with it, but what they
want is in addition to Steam not instead of it.

And yes it is worth kicking up a stink. If you don't ask you don't get. Suffering in silence helps nobody.

[Nova Scotia]

Yes I agree, this thread has caused much heart ache and hard feelings amongst this community. Nothing more can come of a thread such as this, once a published, producer or any head of any company makes a decision they tend ti stick to it. Sometimes it is the correct decision, sometimes not, until that is clear they can't change their mind mide stream, it looks to wishy-washy for a leader.

Steam is here to stay people, deal with it! I am.

Very well stated Sir.

Dealing with it, in my case as proven to be profitable.Instead of rebuilding/upgrading my big pc for Rebirth ,I put up my Rig up for sale,to my surprise it sold in a week.

I have my PS3 for casual sports gaming and I have hook up my HP dm1 notebook to my Aquos for space travelling via Discovery/Freelancer ,which does not require Steam or a power house pc.

Thanks Egosoft for my New Honda EU2000i Generator

[Nanook]

...
Indeed, but since the thread rapidly devolved from page 1 into an argument over whether Egosoft should have the right to make their own business decisions if it impinges on the wishes or perceived 'rights' of the vocal minority then that's probably not so surprising..

And this falls under the category of 'flamebait'. It adds no useful content to the thread whatsoever, and is just 'button-pushing'. If you can't refrain from making comments like these, I strongly suggest you not post at all. There will be no insults allowed, veiled or otherwise. Think before you press that submit button.

@TEKing66 and all others: This thread is being maintained in order to contain all Steam debate in one thread rather than have it spread across all the forums. It's a necessary evil, if you will. Otherwise, it would've been locked long ago. We will try our best to keep insults and other inappropriate behaviour out of it, via splits, locks and warnings, if need be. But for now, it's here to stay.

[TEKing66]

Now, to all my friends and neighbors, having said my piece.

I still say, I prefer a Steam-free release!

I always will!

So, yea, I am dealing with the Steam issue.
By accepting that my days of playing new X game are done, with the exception of the games I currently have that are Steam-free.

[TTD]

It may be ,because of this thread and other attempts like this,that Egosoft has decided to release a non-Steam exe.


.......................

@TEKing66 and all others: This thread is being maintained in order to contain all Steam debate in one thread rather than have it spread across all the forums. It's a necessary evil, if you will. Otherwise, it would've been locked long ago. We will try our best to keep insults and other inappropriate behaviour out of it, via splits, locks and warnings, if need be. But for now, it's here to stay.

So I can't lock my own thread

Seriously though, there has been some good comments from all camps,giving logical ,well thought out reasons why they should or should not accept Steam.

Not all changes in life are easy to accept.
I remember overhearing two senior citizens discussing decimalization ...
One of them said that "They should have waited until us old ones had died before introducing it".

I did not like it when my favorite computer platform disappeared and gave way to the PC.
I do not like the way PC games in shops have got less and less each year,giving space to console games .

But I have adjusted to these changes.

I am not fond of Steam,but I can live with it,even if I won't be buying full price from them very often.

Eventually I'll adjust to that.

I dare say with the speed of technological moves, that there will be other things to get used to before I sleep in a wooden box.

[greypanther]

You sleep in a wooden box TTD?

I used to know a couple who used to sleep in a pair of his and her coffins. But a wooden box? Why?

[Slashman]

You sleep in a wooden box TTD?

I used to know a couple who used to sleep in a pair of his and her coffins. But a wooden box? Why?

So you know a Mr and Mrs. Dracula?

[Geek]

Not all changes in life are easy to accept.
[...]
But I have adjusted to these changes.

Sorry, but Steam is not a technological breakthrough or progress.
It is a commercial setup (should I say trap ?), nothing more. You may agree to their conditions, but those who do not are not backwards people, at any rate.

[TTD]

Sorry, but Steam is not a technological breakthrough or progress.

come come,my dear sir. When I left school we were lucky to have a calculator. Computers were the size of an apartment and internet had not been invented !

As for sleeping in a wooden box,I was referring to the eternal sleep where you are in a wooden box,usually six foot (or 2metres approx) below ground surface.

[TEKing66]

TTD, I may have discovered the true issue with the Steam and the Non-Steam crowd. When I graduated from high school personal calculators were larger than most cell phones today, the PC was still to be invented, and a virus was something the doctor gave you an injection for.

I would dare say that it is the elder crowd that aren't as accepting of Steam. And I know, speaking for myself here, at a certain age we kinda get set in our ways and maybe a little bit bull headed, and probably a bit on the loud mouthed side as well.

For me, it boils down to this.
With a Steam-free DVD of any game I have ever bought I honestly do not remember ever contacting tech support for any issues. Maybe I have been lucky, maybe I am not remembering one or two. What ever, point is I have 4 games now that are Steam only, HalfLife 2 (purchased when it came out an, not installed), Fallout New Vegas (never have installed it), Sniper Ghost Warrior (installed, but was a half@#s game) and now X3TC/X3AP (until the Steam-free patch is released). I have had tech support issues open with Steam for each of these games, I have had trouble installing and updating each of these games, I have had Steam wipe out game files and try to download everything again, I have had it update games that it was set not to update. None of the issues I have had with gaming on my PC have really appeared until Steam came into the picture. And none of the issues was due the the game itself.

Considering my history with Steam as compared to the "old-fashioned" CD/DVD, I really prefer to stick with the Steam-free DVD. Without access to broadband Steam is very nearly useless and requires, what I consider, a large additional effort to use, with little to no benefit.

But, that is and has been just my experience.