X3 - Its Release state - Egosoft - And us, the consumers!

[Evilgenius]

I totally disagree with the orignal posters initial post. I have no relationship with Deep silver / enlight or Egosoft. I am a consumer. There is no grey area. I have bought a faulty product and that is where it ends.

Kudos that theyre supporting it via patches its the bloody least they can do but to read the 1st post and expect me to feel sympathtic towards or more understanding to 3rd parties for selling me a product thats clearly unfinished, your joking.

This is the state of the PC game market and its awful. Buy now patch later. Btw id like to ask the original poster, are you in any way afiliated with Egosoft or its publishers?

[Lazerath]

I don't expect you to be sympathetic bud. I feel the same way as most of you do. However I like to look at all the angles. It helps keep things in perspective and my feet on the ground.



I do appreciate everyones posts in this thread though and sharing all their views and opinions.

Laz

[nullsrevenge]

I think the orginal poster reasoning for why it was released may be a little off.

I think it was because they either had to release now or they would have likely missed out on the holiday season. Which is why there have been so many new games coming out in the past few weeks.

Had they missed this deadline then it would have pushed the release back until next year sometime.

What im disspointed with is their choice for copy protection which is why i havent bought the game and is not as effective as they claim either.

I agree that companies that release games that are buggy and unfinished like BF2 and i guess this game, deserve to take the hits and critism for it, there is really no excuses for it, they had to know the risks when they did it and should accept that harsh critism is going to be the norm.

With that said unlike BF2 which is still buggy and doesnt work do to me getting "Your connection from the server has been lost" 2 mins after joining and alot of the same bugs in verison 1 still in the game. Egosoft has at least agressively tried to patch up the buggy parts of this game and do deserve some credit for that instead of pulling a BF2 and leaving it and instead focus work on a 30 dollar expansion.

[P i r a t e]

while i do sympathize and feel for egosoft, at the end of the day their game "albeit the publishers fault" is unplayable for a majority of players v1.0,, hell some people STILL cant even install the bloody thing!

I also think egosoft should dump their publishers enlight/deepsilver or whomever they use to distribute!.. ok sure thats a big ask, but if they care enough about the community and their future they should make it their mission in life..

i mean just look at the state of the forum and this ain't even tech support, its full of negitivity & distressed players whos only crime is wanting play a space sim and have fun..

not pointing the finger, but i also believe there should be some global legislation regarding the game industry to protect the consumer from the torment of trying to play or even install an unfinished product!. you play games to relax not to become a super nerd or beta tester..

Egosoft will patch x3 sure enough and after they're done i think x3 will be an awesome title and healthy edition to the x series and i wish them well..

[Abernathy]

The following is from the X3 blurb at Gameplanet's online store in NZ - http://www.gpstore.co.nz/Games/1471082.html

"X³: REUNION engine utilizes the very latest DirectX 9 graphical technology; pixel shader technology is used to create realistic reflections across a variety of surface types, while bump maps and specula maps add detail to the geometry of objects"

Fair enough. Although the choice of pixel shader 2.0 has led to some problems...

"A freshly developed economy system allows for more imaginative ways to conquer your foes via commerce. Functions using established business models of 'Elasticity of demand', 'Economies of scale' and 'Return on investment'. Factories are constructed by non player characters, which can freely trade; wars in sectors affect the universal economy, while opportunities bring challenges to both novice and experienced players".

Wars in sectors? AI Factories?

"Over 200 newly designed models have been created for X³. Star ship detail has been massively increased; over 10 times greater than the previous game at an average of 25,000 polygons per ship"

And we still can't tell a buster from a discoverer!

"A new graphical user interface prevents less screen obstruction and faster access to all game options".

Translation: We've removed the cockpits.

"Completely redesigned X universe, with new high detailed environments including asteroid fields, dense gaseous nebulae's, star ship graveyards and much more. Players can fly much closer to planetary bodies; where space stations can hang in low planetary orbits.

Anyone seen a graveyard yet?

"A multitude of new technologies and weapons systems, make the player even more devastating in combat; multi threat targeting system allows for numerous targets to be pin pointed simultaneously".

Interesting - first I've heard of a 'multi-threat targeting system'!

"Controllable via joystick, keyboard and mouse cursor; all are fully re-mappable giving the player infinite choice over control layout, which can be stored as custom profiles"

Oh, I wish!

So yeah, the reality doesn't stack up too well against the hype, does it? I realise this isn't news and I really don't want to flog a dead horse - but reading this took me a bit by surprise, because a lot of it is hype I'd never heard before!!

Now, I've been (mostly) quietly lurking around these forums since before X2, so pretty much knew what to expect - but how is yer average punter going to react to this HUGE gap between what was promised and what was delivered??

[Chips]

"A freshly developed economy system allows for more imaginative ways to conquer your foes via commerce. Functions using established business models of 'Elasticity of demand', 'Economies of scale' and 'Return on investment'. Factories are constructed by non player characters, which can freely trade; wars in sectors affect the universal economy, while opportunities bring challenges to both novice and experienced players".

Wars in sectors? AI Factories?

Yep - alot of people have commented upon pirate invasions, wars between the different factions that rage in sectors, and can damage the sectors. As for AI factories, I suppose we need to ask if anyone has noticed a new factory. I doubt one builds every hour, else the universe would be full in a few days... but maybe in the decimated sectors it would be noticeable (after a war). Has anyone had enough time to see this though? Just because we haven't noticed it yet, doesn't mean it isn't in there... a common misconception that alot of people seem to have. If you can't see it in a few hours, it must not be available! I am not saying it is, just saying that maybe no-one has noticed yet...

"Over 200 newly designed models have been created for X³. Star ship detail has been massively increased; over 10 times greater than the previous game at an average of 25,000 polygons per ship"


And we still can't tell a buster from a discoverer!

You can't... Must admit, hard to tell most ships apart unless you are up close and personal though. I rely upon the voice to tell me whom I am targeting.

"A new graphical user interface prevents less screen obstruction and faster access to all game options".

Translation: We've removed the cockpits.

Translation: New mouse inteface with changed layout to the menu system, incorporating a fully compatible point and click navigation method for all sub menus and menus options. The menus no longer obstruct the whole screen either, you can navigate sub menus without the thing being plastered all over the place.

"Completely redesigned X universe, with new high detailed environments including asteroid fields, dense gaseous nebulae's, star ship graveyards and much more. Players can fly much closer to planetary bodies; where space stations can hang in low planetary orbits.

Anyone seen a graveyard yet?

yeah, it's in the Xenon sector, hence why people kept picking up something they shouldn't during the plot/before they played the plot. Once again, just because you haven't seen something first hand (or weren't sufficiently observant enough), doesn't mean it isn't in the game you know... Are there others? I don't know, I haven't explored all the sectors, and are not presumptious enough to presume that because out of the 40 sectors I have visited, only 1 has a graveyard, that others obviously don't exist either. Maybe sites of old battles etc?

"A multitude of new technologies and weapons systems, make the player even more devastating in combat; multi threat targeting system allows for numerous targets to be pin pointed simultaneously".

Interesting - first I've heard of a 'multi-threat targeting system'!

Sounds just like Shift T to me All your threats are the red boxes, shift T will select the nearest, or you can scroll through them with some of the pgup or home keys (apparenlty, never tried it). You can also click on em if you prefer... i think the "name" it was given makes you think of something fancy and complicated.

"Controllable via joystick, keyboard and mouse cursor; all are fully re-mappable giving the player infinite choice over control layout, which can be stored as custom profiles"

Oh, I wish!

I thought it was, I have seen the profile section, although not used it yet. I take it you haven't been able to create a profile, or found that you cannot maybe?

So yeah, the reality doesn't stack up too well against the hype, does it? I realise this isn't news and I really don't want to flog a dead horse - but reading this took me a bit by surprise, because a lot of it is hype I'd never heard before!!

Now, I've been (mostly) quietly lurking around these forums since before X2, so pretty much knew what to expect - but how is yer average punter going to react to this HUGE gap between what was promised and what was delivered??

I don't know, some of this sounds more like you aren't paying attention whilst playing to me, or just haven't been playing long enough to notice some of the events occuring. None the less, I am sure you are correct

[plynak]

"A freshly developed economy system allows for more imaginative ways to conquer your foes via commerce. Functions using established business models of 'Elasticity of demand', 'Economies of scale' and 'Return on investment'. Factories are constructed by non player characters, which can freely trade; wars in sectors affect the universal economy, while opportunities bring challenges to both novice and experienced players".

Wars in sectors? AI Factories?

Sometime there is a pirate spawn that sometimes attacks a station. Byt can not destroy it as it has so strong shilelds. Wars? Where? I have flown from one end of the universe to another and there is no war. So yes, you are right,

"Over 200 newly designed models have been created for Xł. Star ship detail has been massively increased; over 10 times greater than the previous game at an average of 25,000 polygons per ship"


And we still can't tell a buster from a discoverer!

Yes, many ships uses the same model. Discoverer and Buster, Baracuda and Osprey... This seems like an alpha version of the game to me.

"A new graphical user interface prevents less screen obstruction and faster access to all game options".

Translation: We've removed the cockpits.

The new mouse interface is the most stupid thing I have ever seen. Cursor is laggy like hell, tends to pop up when you do not need it and so on. So I have turned the mouse off and use keybord as I did in X2.
But I have no problem with missing cockpits. It was really stupid to have the same cockpit for all ships.

"Completely redesigned X universe, with new high detailed environments including asteroid fields, dense gaseous nebulae's, star ship graveyards and much more. Players can fly much closer to planetary bodies; where space stations can hang in low planetary orbits.

Anyone seen a graveyard yet?

I saw only one shipwreck in Xenon Sector 101. Moreover this wreckage is the old model of Titan from X2. Not enough time to make a proper model? Youc can fly closer to planets? And what for? Even if you fly on SETA from the planet it is still the same. It is not becoming smaller. But it looks nice.

"A multitude of new technologies and weapons systems, make the player even more devastating in combat; multi threat targeting system allows for numerous targets to be pin pointed simultaneously".

Interesting - first I've heard of a 'multi-threat targeting system'!

Me too do not understand what the pinpointing numerous targets means. I still must press e to target next enemy, which I had to remap because some clever person put a rotation to the e key. New weapons sytems? So far I saw two and PBE is the most useless I have ever seen.

"Controllable via joystick, keyboard and mouse cursor; all are fully re-mappable giving the player infinite choice over control layout, which can be stored as custom profiles"

Oh, I wish!

Yes, you can. But I don understand why making profiles. Once you set it the way you want it, you just save it. Why to make another profile?

So yeah, the reality doesn't stack up too well against the hype, does it? I realise this isn't news and I really don't want to flog a dead horse - but reading this took me a bit by surprise, because a lot of it is hype I'd never heard before!!

Now, I've been (mostly) quietly lurking around these forums since before X2, so pretty much knew what to expect - but how is yer average punter going to react to this HUGE gap between what was promised and what was delivered??

True. Especially the Yaki. They are not in game! All Yaki sectors are vast emptiness! Maybe not enough time to get them into game? And why the hell did not put all those new scripts from X2 to X3 as well. Yes, some of them are there, but some are not. So yes, there is gap.

[niblue]

After purchasing I was initially dissapointed with X3 however after applying the latest patches it's now usable and playable (I've only had one crash in the last few days). It's still a bit of a dissapointment compared to the intial hype but it's still a reasonable game and will be pretty good when the remaining problems are sorted out.

The things I think need urgent attention are:

1) The clusters of small ships in a lot of sectors (the so-called "Black Hole" problem)
2) The speed of race relation improvements at the higher levels (at current rate it'll be a long, long time before I can purchase an M1 or M2 and even then it'll only be with one race)
3) The exclusion of assassination missions - I miss those as they were a feature I liked in X2, especially the increasing difficulty and the possibility of capturing non-pirate ships without a race hit.

[Abernathy]

Sorry, I'm not gonna quote you guys, the message would end up HUGE!!

@Chips - lotsa fair enough comments, especially that I really haven't explored that much of the place to know first-hand what I'm talking about, so I gracefully accept a slap on the wrist for some of my presumptions - but not all!!!

Maybe some of it can be put down to pedantry, but we'll see

1. Wars? Skirmishes maybe, but I've yet to hear of a 'War' as such.

2. Mouse interface - I accept your interpretation of this, fair call. More balanced than mine, 'cos the mousey side of things gets my goat worse than the lack of cockpits But I have to admit, we all clamoured for a mouse interface - just be careful what you wish for, I guess

3. Graveyards - I have to bow to your greater knowledge. It's true I've not been there, but I haven't read any posts here referring to them either, so I assumed they didn't exist. Mea culpa.

4. Multi-targeting - I think you're being a bit of an apologist here and deserve a wet kipper upside the head. Hand me a fish, someone!

5. Mouse/Joystick Profiles - I looked but didn't see! I'll have to get back to you on this, it's gone midnight here and I have to be at work at 7 in the morning, so I'm not about to kick up X3 right now to find out!!

6. You're right, I have all the attention span of a cabbage (and the moral fortitude of a boiled noodle, I've been told )

@plynak - Hey, get those quotes under control, man!!!

One question: Yaki not in the game? I read a post just tonight from someone claiming he'd captured a Yaki fighter! Wossa story here?

Anyway, my main (although long-winded) point stands - if the hype confuses us regulars, how's it going to affect the expectations of newbies? If you have to play for a week or more to see or experience a feature, should that feature really be shouted from the rooftops?

Sheeite - 15 pages of waffle to make a simple point - past my bedtime, methinks! Nunite all

[Nyadach]

Ok, I'm not an old timer, I ain't a fanboi so I don't know anything about these guys. But after installing it and being hit with all the issues, the first person I sat there cursing was the publisher. To be honest from a look at what we've so far seen its quiet a long way from actually release, I beta test quiet a lot of things in a state a lot further on than how X3 stood on release. But as the original poster mentioned, delay would of cost a fortune. It actually could of quiet easily destroyed Egosoft and everything the fans here love about thier creations.

People keep ranting over how Egosoft should drop the publisher and find someone else. But as others have said, its not so easy. A lot of the time the publisher actually holds the rights to the names, and story. Would the old timers here be pleased with it suddenly becoming the Y-Universe or something and all the species getting renamed just due to a change of publisher? A good example of this is the current battles between Valve and Vivendi over the name and use of the Half Life name and story.

When I get mad at something in game not working I just take a deep breath and either try it all over again or just leave the game and go do something else. We've all seen how much effort the devs are putting into getting patches done and I personally believe it won't be too long till its in a fit state. From the effort I can see with the things which are coming out in the patches, I feel they are trying to do the best by the customers. And after all, its only just a game.

[plynak]

O.K. I will try. It was only second time I used quote button and somehow I like it

Yaki are in game, but only in missions. I have never met a Yaki when flying through space. And i downloaded a X3 universe map (nearly the same as X2 map) and there are Yaki sectors. But when i visit them, they are simply empty.

I have always thought that Yaki will be something like other race. Maybe I have thought wrong. But I think that they simply did not add them to this alpha version instead of storyline missions.

[Abernathy]

And after all, its only just a game.

So there's a lesser reason for QA than for the more 'important' things?

I bet you'd kick up a stink if the cheese sandwich you ordered for lunch turned out to be asparagus between two slices of concrete!

Stupid, I know, but hey

Yes yes, I'm really going to bed now...

[esd]

I also think egosoft should dump their publishers enlight/deepsilver or whomever they use to distribute!.. ok sure thats a big ask, but if they care enough about the community and their future they should make it their mission in life..

As has been previously stated, Space is a niche market, and Egosoft are lucky to get a publisher at all. If they could choose, no doubt they certainly would. Fact is, they have to take what they can get.

[plynak]

And how about some smaller publishers like Matrixgames? I think they would be happy to release games like X3 without so many problems caused by Deep Silver.

To be honest I know about two games from Deep Silver, X2 and X3, while I know many games from Matrixgames (Starshatter, Starships Unlimited, Garry Gitsby's World at War...).

[Makarius]

nice post (initial posting)

Greetings:


Makarius

[Serial Kicked]

Excellent intial post ! I 100% agree with it.


It's also too bad the people that are now complaining and asking for a new patch every day are more or less the same as those who spammed the board with "release date please !" posts.

X3 is already a great game, and it'll be even greater when it will be 100% patched.


/me is returning to his game

[Mauzi!]

Well written post and probably close to the truth - but... still Egosoft never publicly named any reasons for releasing the crappy version of X³ (talking about 1.0) on their own. Leaving the customers speculating for reasons doesn't look too good really.

On the other hand, while you nicely sum up the basics of software production, it all seems so logically listed up how things were inevitable, etc. But... they weren't inevitable in the *real* beginning - not when your description started.

And yes, I'm talking of proper project management which should be able to avoid problems like this, but that'd have had to be done already way before contracts about X² TR were made. Once those were signed, things seem to have been inevitable.

Yet... while there's obviously something gone wrong on the planning part, the good new is that Egosoft is known to care for fixing and adding the promised but missing content. Most other companies wouldn't do this - guess that's why all the (rightfully!) complaining players (customers!) still stick in the forum, waiting for the desired improvements.

Though, the recent excuse about the missing HQ of "That was announced for X² TR" doesn't make me feel comfortabe at all. Since they never listed an actual feature list for X³ after informing customers publicly about certain features of X², this looks a bit like intentional misleading - or the try of a cheap excuse...

Anyhow, good post there, and yes... we all wait for better times (aka patches) now, I guess.

[crazy ivan]

If anyone has been reading the forum, religiously like I have, its more or less easy to see this game was released before it was fully functional. By fully functional I mean it doesnt crash often, and all the features designed into the game are up and running. For example mobile mineing has been disabled. I also read that a player HQ was worked into the game but isn't up and running, as well as tugs to move stations around. People have offered proof such as these features being referenced in a game file, but I dont know the specifics. I want to know why this game was released before it was fully functional. Its not really a tendoncy of companies to release partially functional software.
I do think this is a really great game, the graphics are awsome, but there are many features that are going to be introduced that should have been introduced when it went gold. As for people complaining that cockpits are missing from the game, I dont really mind. The interface is really nice and cockpits probabaly would have gotten in the way of it.
The only game play issues I have is that my game keeps minimizing on and off, and it wont let me maxamize it back so I have to end up killing the process and reloading. Some save game loads crash but I save often so I deal with it. Other than that Im waiting for the next 20 patches to come out. This game might end up being the most patches game ever. It sucks to be peopel wityh dialup, because they will probabaly have to download so many patches.

[Dgn Master]

Don't you think it would have been more feasible to just bump one of the other 10000 rant topics up to the top of the forums instead of creating yet another one?

Honestly though i think we have all had enough of these threads. Yes Egosoft released X3 to early, Yes it was/is buggy, Yes we will all have to dl patches till it is working correctly. But i see no reason to repeat it all yet again!!

Sorry if you feel i have highjacked your little rant, but i believe i'm not the only person on these boards sick of hearing these.

[crazy ivan]

No, I'm not complaining about this game crashing or needing patches. I have played a lot of computer games. This is the first game I have ever seen in which is was released before it was fully functional. Lots of games are released that are buggy. This game is buggy but it doesn't have all the features active, that are in the game. It was released mid development, thats the point I'm making. This is not just another rant about it being buggy, and needing to download lots of patches, those are just somethings I said on the side.