Egosoft had to release X4 unfinished?

[CaptainX4]

..blah blah blah...

Which would you rather have? A developer that works on the product post-launch to make it right, or one that just doesn't care about the consumer at all whatsoever?

A developer that uses Early Access to develop a product to the point where it's in an acceptable V1.0 release state (EA community input driven), complete with supporting documentation for new players. Also consistent with its advertised features and description.

There's plenty of companies that do this (from small one persons indies to big companies), and it shows more respect for your customer's time and money than the snake oil you're trying to sell.

Good luck in your journey to impose your brand of ethical morality on unwilling participants in order to fashion the world's greatest videogame, my angry little internet friend.

you seriously come with an argument like "hey the world is wrong, get over it and help us make it worse" ??? it has to be a joke...

[Requiemfang]

How bout we get back on topic folks... seems to be drawing near a point where it's gonna get personal or flame warish.

[Komuso]

How bout we get back on topic folks... seems to be drawing near a point where it's gonna get personal or flame warish.

How about people don't advocate "But we've always done it this way" instead?
http://mymeadowreport.com/reneefishman/ ... s-done-it/

[Alandauron]

Gonna be honest, I skimmed the discussion focusing mainly on the major contributors.

1. EA wouldn't work for games in the X series and would likely kill the franchise

They have been developing games the same way for years and have a process down that allows them to make enough money to fund the consistent development of a game and cater it to their fan base in a post-release method in order to increase customer satisfaction in their purchase. I imagine they have discussed utilizing an EA system quite a bit and have cited the many different things that have been said about the state of release for their game when first launched. Adopting the EA model would get a larger crowd of people like yourself that would do nothing except trash on the company and submit bad reviews because they ran into bugs that they considered game breaking without even looking at the overall goal of the project and how well the game is serving that goal.

2. Research game franchises before purchasing.

Personally this is my first pre-order with Egosoft, I have been following their games for over a decade and kept putting off my purchases on previous products because of what I read about their release habits and how buggy their games are upon first launch. I have played both X3 and XR and loved both of them for what they were. I received much flak from the "loyal community" you speak of due to praising X: Rebirth for what it did well. You chose to not only purchase the product but go all out and get the more expensive version for $75. If you did that without doing any research into the history of the franchise I honestly feel no sympathy for you. I waited for the previous products to go on sale years after release because I knew what to expect. If you are/were actually a developer you should know to do this.

3. The X Community is EXTREMELY critical of Egosoft

You seem to think that the "long timers" just blindly support everything the company does. You would be 100% wrong in this. I have been following these games for over a decade and can tell you that the "loyal" fanbase are the ones most critical to Egosoft and make sure that they hold the company to their word on development. If they would have abandoned any previous iterations in the X series and left them in a state of disaster these people would have moved on to something else and Egosoft would no longer be in the game development business. Even with X: Rebirth many of those loyal fans swore off the X series and I know a couple personally that haven't bought X4 yet. X-Rebirth was actually a big success because of how it gave a less extreme version of previous X installments and that led to sales to new players that bought the game on sales a year or two after it's release.

Point being it's not the X Community that enables the practice of releasing buggy games, the X Community does help the developers get the game to a good state in the first months/year though which leads to new players enjoying an amazing game.

4. EA would give Egosoft less income or force a change in policy

Loyal fans are going to purchase the game no matter what, at least as long as Egosoft continues to support it's product the way it has in the past. If the game were released in EA those loyal fans would be thrilled and would get the game for less money. This is a really niche crowd that enjoys this style game, though maybe not as niche as in years past, which means that the pot that Egosoft can draw from is relatively small. If they released in EA, rather than following a reliable system that has worked for years, they still wouldn't get many more sales volume wise. Attach a "proper" EA price to that small volume and you likely cut the income in half. This would lead to different policies being enacted by Egosoft in order to work off the smaller amount of sales, maybe even longer development times, an even smaller development team, dlc packs, etc. This is something that you don't want to see in games released for the X-series.

5. EA was created for new companies not established ones

EA is a nice thing that now allows struggling and developing companies to have a way to make some money while they are working on their product, it's great for that purpose. This has also led to it's abuse, companies that want to try their hand at game development can slap an EA tag on their product and release something barely playable to see if they like the process. Negative feedback from players who are excited about the general concept has led many startups to decide they don't want to be involved in the business which leads to their product being abandoned and the EA reputation to be tarnished further. Launching under EA gives companies a tarnished reputation from the start due to how the system has been abused.


All in all I understand your frustration, as I said this is the first time I have pre-ordered an X-series game rather than waiting for things to be fleshed out. I often find myself thinking that I am in a beta testing environment rather than playing a game I enjoy, I just decided that this time I wanted to be involved in that process that I already knew existed in every X game in the past. As long as this company continuously supports it's products post-development I support them using this style and that's coming from someone that normally doesn't pre-order.

I hope you get that refund you're trying for since you're not interested in the standard X development process, but you have to recognize that EA for this series won't work.

[Keris]

I miss the beautifull x:rebirth maps, that long highways throught some sectors and long superhighways showing you the beauty of systems. Plutarch controlled starting system with cracked open planet and some sectors inside, blak hole in one of argon systems, xenon sectors with spiral shaped highways. Albion system in ruins... I loved that maps. X4 look empty in comparison (im not talking about lack of wars and big quests and main story).

Agreed. I liked the sector backgrounds in X Rebirth. Sadly people were complaining about it and wanted more realism.
This is what we got now with X4. Even the music is pretty bland in comparison of older titles.

Lol. Talk about realism... maps where you have Almost all sectors in planet orbits and there are free floating asteroids instead of being inside of rings (which many of that planets have). If i want more realism i play elite dangerous .

I know all the ships have now travel mode which is great, yet highways are much faster, and are still very usefull. Highways through many systems and jump gates is a great idea, i just don't understand why other highways are so short and have almost no meaning. They even many times not leading directly to anywhere and there are big gap between end of highway and closest stations. And people were complaining about realism which ment beautiful views in X:R ? Damn... The proximity of sun in one of Albion sectors was great, the stations in very low orbits almost in atmosphere, the proximity of black hole... And i don't see lack of realism here. Some things are worse now. Look at explosions of capships, where are those implosions and risk of being annihilated with smaller ship, or damaged in big one?

I DO STILL enjoy the game and im waiting for more patches to begin play properly ( for now im just exploring systems, dropping nav beacons and satellites to know where i will sell or buy things in future I just hope they will make everything as good as it was in X:R. (I dont expect they change maps for more colorful and the rebirth-like, just i hope they'll finish what they started soon and . (And new maps like that they could add in some expansion ).

you can always go back and play x:r
[/quote]

Yeah, thanks...

[Komuso]

...

5. EA was created for new companies not established ones

EA is a nice thing that now allows struggling and developing companies to have a way to make some money while they are working on their product, it's great for that purpose. This has also led to it's abuse, companies that want to try their hand at game development can slap an EA tag on their product and release something barely playable to see if they like the process. Negative feedback from players who are excited about the general concept has led many startups to decide they don't want to be involved in the business which leads to their product being abandoned and the EA reputation to be tarnished further. Launching under EA gives companies a tarnished reputation from the start due to how the system has been abused.


All in all I understand your frustration, as I said this is the first time I have pre-ordered an X-series game rather than waiting for things to be fleshed out. I often find myself thinking that I am in a beta testing environment rather than playing a game I enjoy, I just decided that this time I wanted to be involved in that process that I already knew existed in every X game in the past. As long as this company continuously supports it's products post-development I support them using this style and that's coming from someone that normally doesn't pre-order.

I hope you get that refund you're trying for since you're not interested in the standard X development process, but you have to recognize that EA for this series won't work.

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply. I understand everything you say, but still don't agree with a few points.

>>Market Size

I don't think this is a particularly small market, if handled correctly. Look at how much RSI has extracted, for example.

>>5. EA was created for new companies not established ones

This isn't true at all.

"What is Early Access?
Get immediate access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement. These are games that evolve as you play them, as you give feedback, and as the developers update and add content.
We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community. There have been a number of prominent titles that have embraced this model of development recently and found a lot of value in the process. We like to support and encourage developers who want to ship early, involve customers, and build lasting relationships that help everyone make better games.

This is the way games should be made."
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

The new Epic Games store also has EA https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US
It's also better as a consumer to support a company that gives indie devs an extra 18% income, unlike Valve/Steam. Bye Steam.

I've personally had EA games games from major companies/studios that were delivered over a long period.

So all in all I still maintain it's "the standard X development process" which is the problem here.
They obviously have the capacity to conceptualize, design, and develop over time - the issue is how you best do that to satisfy the various customer segments in order to sustain and grow the business/brand - all while delivering a high quality product and user experience.

Times change, so do development methods. "We've always done it this way" doesn't cut it.

It doesn't look like I'll be getting a refund, so this goes back into the fridge and I'll take a look at again in a year or so.
That's actually a really sad thing to say about a product release, imo, no matter how good it may be in a year.

[esd]

You've all been here long enough to know that this kind of discourse isn't acceptable here. Keep it civil, don't make it personal.

[Alandauron]

>>5. EA was created for new companies not established ones

This isn't true at all.

"What is Early Access?
Get immediate access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement. These are games that evolve as you play them, as you give feedback, and as the developers update and add content.
We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community. There have been a number of prominent titles that have embraced this model of development recently and found a lot of value in the process. We like to support and encourage developers who want to ship early, involve customers, and build lasting relationships that help everyone make better games.

This is the way games should be made."
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

I agree this is the way games should be made, that's EXACTLY why I support Egosoft. They have quite literally been doing what is now considered EA for over a decade. They release a product, buggy yes, that is playable and then work alongside the community to improve upon including the addition of community ideas and concepts. It doesn't have to have the EA tag, this is their method. It's really not a problem except when you don't research the product and developers to know what you're getting into. The last time I did this was with Destiny 1, it was a truly pathetic release.

Here's the thing, Egosoft has been an EA company since before the phrase was coined. Now that EA exists certain expectations have been established for them other than just, "Stick with your product". Suddenly in order to be classified as EA it has to be an open development process, you have to allow all types of feedback and be willing to change your product, and worst of all the price point needs to be lower than a standard release. To me if they accomplish everything else the price point and tag of EA isn't necessary. That is Egosoft.

I've personally had EA games games from major companies/studios that were delivered over a long period.

What major studios?

Not a tongue in cheek comment I honestly stick with games for a long period of time and don't get out much(in terms of the thousands of different games out there). Of the EA games I have seen there haven't been any "major" companies or studios participating in this.

So all in all I still maintain it's "the standard X development process" which is the problem here.
They obviously have the capacity to conceptualize, design, and develop over time - the issue is how you best do that to satisfy the various customer segments in order to sustain and grow the business/brand - all while delivering a high quality product and user experience.

Times change, so do development methods. "We've always done it this way" doesn't cut it.

It doesn't look like I'll be getting a refund, so this goes back into the fridge and I'll take a look at again in a year or so.
That's actually a really sad thing to say about a product release, imo, no matter how good it may be in a year.

Yes, development methods do change. They have changed quite a bit over time. I hate most of the changes and hope that Egosoft doesn't adapt to these new development methods. I don't even want to imagine an X-series game with loot boxes or incremental dlc releases every 6-12 months that all cost $30 each and feel relatively hollow. I chose to pre-order X4: Foundations due to the fact that Egosoft has continued to be a reliable company amidst all of the terrible practices happening in the gaming industry.

"This is the way it has always been" isn't always a bad thing and, in the case of Egosoft, the phrase you should be more focused on is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Komuso]

I've personally had EA games games from major companies/studios that were delivered over a long period.

What major studios?

Is Warner Brothers big enough for you? Lego Worlds (a spin on Minecraft) was in Early Access for well over a year.

"This is the way it has always been" isn't always a bad thing and, in the case of Egosoft, the phrase you should be more focused on is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

No. What you should be focused on is the definition of Insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Consumer protection laws also evolve, I might add.

Let me just leave this Steam review from someone else that sums it up, especially the last line.

Not Recommended
27.5 hrs last two weeks / 27.5 hrs on record
Posted: 4 Dec @ 11:31pm

This is the first review I've ever written for a game on steam. I normally accept bugs and strange "features" and get on with gameplay, enjoying a game for the positive experience it offers.

I can not say that has happened with X4. Don't get me wrong, the foundation (no pun intended) Egosoft has built with X4 is an excellent start, but I paid fifty dollars for a game experience, not an engine on which a finished game might someday be built.

I've had enough of misleading marketing promising greatness even though the game was apparently never actually played at length by anyone before being released. Like X-Rebirth before it, X4 is a shell of a game. Lots of amazing systems, but almost none of it synergizes into actual, interesting, gameplay.

A deeply dynamic economy is amazing, but if you never bother to test it to make sure it functions like a believable economy, what's the point ? All the systems in the game are great on paper but the AI understands almost none of it. After only a few hours the much touted "Living Univese" comes across as smoke and mirrors.

I commend the fans for being positive, but I grow weary of the "just wait, it will be a great game soon" mentality. I simply expected a great game when I purchased a finished product.

[Alandauron]

Is Warner Brothers big enough for you? Lego Worlds (a spin on Minecraft) was in Early Access for well over a year.

Ah, yes they are a decent name in gaming though I wasn't aware LEGO Worlds was EA. I guess it kinda makes sense, LEGO Worlds is also one of the only LEGO games to receive such horrible reviews so I can't help but think that this example only proves my point instead of working against it. A fairly big and established name uses EA for a risky game and gets subpar reviews along with a lower price tag. Now they won't do that again.

No. What you should be focused on is the definition of Insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

We don't expect a different result. We expect a game that is buggy at launch but then ends up becoming a polished gem just like every other time Egosoft has created an X-series game in the past. So your reference is off point by a pretty large margin and once again, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Consumer protection laws also evolve, I might add.

Like the protection you're enjoying right now being unable to refund a game you're not satisfied with?

Look, I understand your frustration but the reason why people on these forums are tired of people like yourself and end up getting rude at times is because it happens every time. Someone comes to the forums complaining, they try to explain that this is part of the process with this specific company and not to worry then get assaulted with the same, "It shouldn't be like that" to which the only reply is, "But that's how it is".

We are ok with this process because we know Egosoft and know they stick with their product so we try our best to explain that to others that are frustrated. If you still want to get a refund we hope you're able to but don't want to see Egosoft have to struggle through the idiotic suggestions being made(to be clear, not calling you an idiot) by people that are new to the franchise. We want the franchise to continue, we want Egosoft to remain a developer that sticks with their products until the community is satisfied. This is how IT WORKS, we want it to keep working and not run the risk of being ruined.

Let me just leave this Steam review from someone else that sums it up, especially the last line.

Not Recommended
27.5 hrs last two weeks / 27.5 hrs on record
Posted: 4 Dec @ 11:31pm

This is the first review I've ever written for a game on steam. I normally accept bugs and strange "features" and get on with gameplay, enjoying a game for the positive experience it offers.

I can not say that has happened with X4. Don't get me wrong, the foundation (no pun intended) Egosoft has built with X4 is an excellent start, but I paid fifty dollars for a game experience, not an engine on which a finished game might someday be built.

I've had enough of misleading marketing promising greatness even though the game was apparently never actually played at length by anyone before being released. Like X-Rebirth before it, X4 is a shell of a game. Lots of amazing systems, but almost none of it synergizes into actual, interesting, gameplay.

A deeply dynamic economy is amazing, but if you never bother to test it to make sure it functions like a believable economy, what's the point ? All the systems in the game are great on paper but the AI understands almost none of it. After only a few hours the much touted "Living Univese" comes across as smoke and mirrors.

I commend the fans for being positive, but I grow weary of the "just wait, it will be a great game soon" mentality. I simply expected a great game when I purchased a finished product.

Another review stating exactly what fans of the franchise already knows. In fact there were discussions about how buggy it would be prior to it's release. In the case of an unknown company that would be unacceptable, but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it. Hate it if you want but this is the process that works for Egosoft and the fanbase grows with each iteration because of how they stand by their product.

[Komuso]

...blah blah blah...

Another review stating exactly what fans of the franchise already knows. In fact there were discussions about how buggy it would be prior to it's release. In the case of an unknown company that would be unacceptable, but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it. Hate it if you want but this is the process that works for Egosoft and the fanbase grows with each iteration because of how they stand by their product.

Rolling my eyes.

[Alandauron]

...blah blah blah...

Another review stating exactly what fans of the franchise already knows. In fact there were discussions about how buggy it would be prior to it's release. In the case of an unknown company that would be unacceptable, but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it. Hate it if you want but this is the process that works for Egosoft and the fanbase grows with each iteration because of how they stand by their product.

Rolling my eyes.

Well I tried to explain it to you in a respectful manner so that you can understand why the fanbase has lost it's tolerance for your type of mindset but obviously you don't care and just want to complain. To that end I will say I wish you luck in getting your refund and hope that the devs completely disregard your desire for them to consider EA in the future. Best wishes to you.

[CaptainX4]

...blah blah blah...

Another review stating exactly what fans of the franchise already knows. In fact there were discussions about how buggy it would be prior to it's release. In the case of an unknown company that would be unacceptable, but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it. Hate it if you want but this is the process that works for Egosoft and the fanbase grows with each iteration because of how they stand by their product.

Rolling my eyes.

Well I tried to explain it to you in a respectful manner so that you can understand why the fanbase has lost it's tolerance for your type of mindset but obviously you don't care and just want to complain. To that end I will say I wish you luck in getting your refund and hope that the devs completely disregard your desire for them to consider EA in the future. Best wishes to you.

im part of the fanbase and i've lost tolerance of your nonsense. he has EVERY right to complain as we all do. your belittling of others gets really tiresome... apologism is one of the mayor contributor ruining the gaming industry. i remember times when only us geeks bought games, we were laughed at in real life but the developers took us seriously because they knew their revenue was depending on us. now that every kid is a gamer everything can be sold no matter of the quality and there are people who do everything to find an excuse why an actual shit is still a good game. well, go play it but dont try to convince others about the same thing. thanks

[Alandauron]

im part of the fanbase and i've lost tolerance of your nonsense. he has EVERY right to complain as we all do. your belittling of others gets really tiresome... apologism is one of the mayor contributor ruining the gaming industry. i remember times when only us geeks bought games, we were laughed at in real life but the developers took us seriously because they knew their revenue was depending on us. now that every kid is a gamer everything can be sold no matter of the quality and there are people who do everything to find an excuse why an actual shit is still a good game. well, go play it but dont try to convince others about the same thing. thanks

You obviously didn't read my responses to him. I clearly didn't say that his opinion isn't relevant just that I personally hope that the devs disregard it for the reasons I listed in my non-apologetic post. In fact I talked about how there are worse design choices that Egosoft could be using that I hope never make it into this franchise. I merely tried to explain to him why the fanbase(which doesn't mean every single person that plays X-series games) is not always receptive to suggestions like EA or crowdfunding. Those systems have received a bad reputation and companies using them are looked at through an extremely skeptical light.

Try to read all of the posts you're responding to and maybe you won't make unnecessary personal attacks. Every opinion is valid, I just hope that the perspective of going into EA is ignored by the devs as I believe it would mean an end to the franchise as we know it.

[CaptainX4]

You obviously didn't read my responses to him. I clearly didn't say that his opinion isn't relevant just that I personally hope that the devs disregard it for the reasons I listed in my non-apologetic post. In fact I talked about how there are worse design choices that Egosoft could be using that I hope never make it into this franchise. I merely tried to explain to him why the fanbase(which doesn't mean every single person that plays X-series games) is not always receptive to suggestions like EA or crowdfunding. Those systems have received a bad reputation and companies using them are looked at through an extremely skeptical light.

Try to read all of the posts you're responding to and maybe you won't make unnecessary personal attacks. Every opinion is valid, I just hope that the perspective of going into EA is ignored by the devs as I believe it would mean an end to the franchise as we know it.

its not me attacking your person, you DO bring apologetic excuses like "but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it" and try to dismiss and belittle the one dares to complain. I stop this here because we are getting very off the track but I hope you will do it too. Egosoft broke with X3 exactly to win the general gaming public and this guy is one of the very representation how badly they fail. sure we will keep buying their games no matter how they release, i will buy their dlc-s too even though i said i wont pay 3-4 times to finally get a finished game but these are the people egosoft is losing on when they are making halfbaked crap like this. these are the people been really let down and sure their comments should VERY MUCH matter...

[Alandauron]

its not me attacking your person, you DO bring apologetic excuses like "but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it" and try to dismiss and belittle the one dares to complain. I stop this here because we are getting very off the track but I hope you will do it too. Egosoft broke with X3 exactly to win the general gaming public and this guy is one of the very representation how badly they fail. sure we will keep buying their games no matter how they release, i will buy their dlc-s too even though i said i wont pay 3-4 times to finally get a finished game but these are the people egosoft is losing on when they are making halfbaked crap like this. these are the people been really let down and sure their comments should VERY MUCH matter...

Personally, I'm not getting off track. This is very much still a discussion about why X4 was released unfinished and why the community is ok with it. Not because we are apologetic. Not because we are die hard fans(we are though). We are ok with it because Egosoft HAS proven themselves, time and time again they have. As long as they continue to do so they will have our support. Being apologetic is when they release crap and it remains crap but you try to justify it with, "Well game-development is hard." No one has stated that, the fanbase has only tried to share that if people stick around they will see a much better game because that is how this process has worked thus far.

If you've been around since before December 4 2018, when you registered your account, then you know that this community is very critical of Egosoft. The outrage they showed toward X:Rebirth alone was rather shocking to me personally. Egosoft doesn't get a pass from their fanbase, they just get time to work on the polish the same way they have in the past. I hope one day that they can earn enough from a previous installment to do all the work prior to release but it's more likely that this style will continue and I support that. Much better this than completely hollow games that are near bug-free and have same year dlc planned along with lootboxes to unlock better ships and station modules.

[Alandauron]

its not me attacking your person, you DO bring apologetic excuses like "but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it" and try to dismiss and belittle the one dares to complain. I stop this here because we are getting very off the track but I hope you will do it too. Egosoft broke with X3 exactly to win the general gaming public and this guy is one of the very representation how badly they fail. sure we will keep buying their games no matter how they release, i will buy their dlc-s too even though i said i wont pay 3-4 times to finally get a finished game but these are the people egosoft is losing on when they are making halfbaked crap like this. these are the people been really let down and sure their comments should VERY MUCH matter...

Also of note, I haven't belittled anyone in my posts. If anything I have been much more respectful in my responses than is warranted when receiving replies such as, "Rolls Eyes". I believe in remaining civil in a discussion even if the others involved are unable to.

I AM one of those geeks, I remember when games didn't have the opportunity to be supported post launch, at least not to the extent that they can today with online patches and such. I remembered being called a geek, nerd, dweeb, etc. because I enjoyed video games before it was cool. I also remember the companies that are ACTUALLY ruining the gaming industry, Egosoft has not proven themselves to be in that group.

[MrMikey]

My 2 cents:

1. Making an complex game like this isn't easy by any stretch, even more so with a small dev team - Cut them some slack, even when there are bugs i have yet to find one that cant be worked around (not ideal but something to get by until its patched) - Just remember to report all buggs you find and better yet with good info how they occur ed and even best golden standard - how they can reproduce it. We all get a better game with that
2. Without unlimited funds it's hard to get a game of the ground at a pristine state, heck publishers who literary drowns in cash and have huge dev teams fails constantly (fo76 anyone??) not that it in-itself is an excuse not to be lax in the Q&A department but test everything in a title like this will make it never come out and ego would have gone belly up during the process. So get a game at all with some bugs that will get fixed or not getting it at all - For me that answer is quite darn simple really!

// Mike

[CaptainX4]

its not me attacking your person, you DO bring apologetic excuses like "but to a company with a proven track record of sticking with it and coming out the other end better we have come to terms with it" and try to dismiss and belittle the one dares to complain. I stop this here because we are getting very off the track but I hope you will do it too. Egosoft broke with X3 exactly to win the general gaming public and this guy is one of the very representation how badly they fail. sure we will keep buying their games no matter how they release, i will buy their dlc-s too even though i said i wont pay 3-4 times to finally get a finished game but these are the people egosoft is losing on when they are making halfbaked crap like this. these are the people been really let down and sure their comments should VERY MUCH matter...

Personally, I'm not getting off track. This is very much still a discussion about why X4 was released unfinished and why the community is ok with it. Not because we are apologetic. Not because we are die hard fans(we are though). We are ok with it because Egosoft HAS proven themselves, time and time again they have. As long as they continue to do so they will have our support. Being apologetic is when they release crap and it remains crap but you try to justify it with, "Well game-development is hard." No one has stated that, the fanbase has only tried to share that if people stick around they will see a much better game because that is how this process has worked thus far.

If you've been around since before December 4 2018, when you registered your account, then you know that this community is very critical of Egosoft. The outrage they showed toward X:Rebirth alone was rather shocking to me personally. Egosoft doesn't get a pass from their fanbase, they just get time to work on the polish the same way they have in the past. I hope one day that they can earn enough from a previous installment to do all the work prior to release but it's more likely that this style will continue and I support that. Much better this than completely hollow games that are near bug-free and have same year dlc planned along with lootboxes to unlock better ships and station modules.

"lost it's tolerance for your type of mindset but obviously you don't care and just want to complain" so in your opinion what is this? now im really off this stuff. I exactly didnt register at X:R because it was such a mess here but the so called fanbase shown then too how apologetic it can be. now X4 looks better, actually there is a chance they will make it somewhat close to X3 level but that they have proven a good track? worse joke. XR is still a disaster as a game and even X3 has major flaws after those many years.
"Being apologetic is when they release crap and it remains crap but you try to justify it with, "Well game-development is hard."" nope, when they state "ohh nevermind it will be better later" already count as such. and we have all seen this. I thought there will be less conflicts this time but it seems that I was wrong. You still find your ways to try to send others away saying they are only here to "complain". Well, the game is currently completely unplayable unless you are prepared to run it yourself. the ai is a wreck, the pathing is even worse, these werent fixed since the first x. will it be a better game? hopefully yes. in 4-5 years. should we tell the casual newcomers to f**k off and wait that time? I dont think so... maybe put on the box: for die hard fans only! and have a second release a few years later. but IMO this kind of cheating people into buying a half-done game deserves all that it gets from the likes of Komuso.

[letwolf]

if they'll polish it like x3tc then it would be best game in da world, so calm & wait some time.