[MOD] Miscellaneous OOZ Combat Tweaks

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w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

If you feel like experimenting, playing around with this value:

Code: Select all

<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@firingarea">36000000</replace>
in libraries\parameters.xml should make the differences in relative position OOZ more pronounced. Will balance things heavily against very large objects.

Included that in ready-to-tweak form in MOCT. Just uncomment that line and change the number. Making it very small should make the difference in firing angles very pronounced.
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alexalsp
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Post by alexalsp »

w.evans - as always great job. Wonderful mod. Thank you.
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Thanks, alexalsp!
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

Hi w.evans,

This can be a stupid question: are all the sup files necessary? I mean, in nexus we have MOC-T_supp1_v0.01, MOC-T_supp2_v0.01 and MOC-T_supp3_v0.02 - are these 3 files necessary, or are they upgraded version of each other in supp order? Thanks!
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Hi Rubini,

All 3 supplements are different, and you could mix and match them as you like.

MOC-T_supp1 - Makes the Sucellus cost roughly double. With this, the Sucellus is considerably more expensive than the Taranis. Costs somewhere between an Olmekron and a Fulmekron on average.

MOC-T_supp2 - All Xenon spawned are genetically superior. (The Branch 9 Xenon have recently evolved an update to Xenon 2.0 which are active in all Xenon made since the update was brought on-line. Makes all newly-spawned Xenon have a minimum of 3 stars in all skills.)

MOC-T_supp3 - Increases Sucellus IHC range to 18,000. Fires one round per reload cycle instead of 3, but damage increased three-fold. Balor torpedo range increased to 24,000. Balor radar range increased to 48,000.
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

w.evans wrote:Hi Rubini,

All 3 supplements are different, and you could mix and match them as you like.

MOC-T_supp1 - Makes the Sucellus cost roughly double. With this, the Sucellus is considerably more expensive than the Taranis. Costs somewhere between an Olmekron and a Fulmekron on average.

MOC-T_supp2 - All Xenon spawned are genetically superior. (The Branch 9 Xenon have recently evolved an update to Xenon 2.0 which are active in all Xenon made since the update was brought on-line. Makes all newly-spawned Xenon have a minimum of 3 stars in all skills.)

MOC-T_supp3 - Increases Sucellus IHC range to 18,000. Fires one round per reload cycle instead of 3, but damage increased three-fold. Balor torpedo range increased to 24,000. Balor radar range increased to 48,000.
Thanks by the reply mate!
So, I understood that I can use (enable) none or all at same time ... and the same can be said about MICT_supp for MiscellaneousIZCombatTweaks?
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Rubini wrote:Thanks by the reply mate!
So, I understood that I can use (enable) none or all at same time ... and the same can be said about MICT_supp for MiscellaneousIZCombatTweaks?
Yup! All of the supplements for both mods are optional, and are inter-compatible.
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alexalsp
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Post by alexalsp »

These mods can be used together or only one of them?

Subb 1,2,3 can all be used or separately?
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

alexalsp wrote:These modes can be used together or only one of them?

Subb 1,2,3 can all be used or separately?
Yes, the mods can be used together.
Yes, all of the supplements of both mods are completely optional, so they can all be installed together, or you can choose which ones to install.
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alexalsp
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Post by alexalsp »

This excellent)). Thank you w.evans
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Cheers!
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

24.Mar.2015 - MOC-T_supp3_v0.03 is up!

Incorporated IHC bullet speed increase from MICT_supp2. Adjusted so that bullet is correctly live only up to 18,000m.

Thanks to NocturnalS1n for pointing out the range error.
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

Hi w.evans,

After some tests with Conquer_mod i noticed how unbalanced are the OOZ even on 3.53 vanilla. My main observations are from capship x stations. Will this OOZ mod change something to make this better or, perhaps, can you point to me where I can look to try to make this better? (capship x stations)

I think that the devs leave OOZ for capship x station in a very crappy state because, as we known, the main premise of X:R is that stations are indestructible. What you think ? Any idea?

Thanks mate!
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Hey Rubini,

I'll gladly look into it, but I don't understand: unbalanced how?
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

Uhh sorry, i mean , seems that the capships are very lazy, the stations survive for muuuuch more time OOZ when compared with the same force (AI or player forces) in zone.
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Have you noticed if it's with particular capships, or with particular loadouts? I'm asking because most of the tweakable values which apply to OOZ combat are in parameters.xml, and those are rather specific:

Code: Select all

	<!--Effective area for turrets to fire from, limiting damage from very large objects-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@firingarea">36000000</replace>
	<!--Multiplier for primary weapon damage-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@primaryweaponfactor">1.0</replace>
	<!--Multiplier for secondary weapon damage-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@secondaryweaponfactor">1.0</replace>
	<!--Multiplier for turret damage-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@turretfactor">1.0</replace>
	<!--Multiplier for defence drone (not attack) primary damage-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@droneprimaryfactor">0.35</replace>
	<!--Multiplier for defence drone (not attack) primary damage-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@dronesecondaryfactor">0.20</replace>
	<!--The minimum speed of the attacker, used for evasion calculations. Slower or immobile objects will use this value-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/attack/@minspeed">100</replace>

	<!--Factor of how much of a difference the speed between the attacker and defender affects the hit chance-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@maneouverfactor">0.42</replace>
	<!--The minimum speed of the defender, used for evasion calculations. Slower or immobile objects will use this value-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@minspeed">50</replace>
	<!--The minimum size of the defender, used for hit chance calculations. Very large objects will use this value-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@maxsize">500.0</replace>
	<!--Factor of how much of a difference the object size and 'maxsize' affects the hit chance-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@sizefactor">0.5</replace>
	<!--Factor of how much turret damage against a defending capitalship is negated. Simulating the high attention wandering of capships which slows the battle-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@capshipfactor">0.6</replace>
	<!--Factor of how much damage a single defence drone will negate by distracting the attacker. Total result clamped between 0.5 and 1.0-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@dronedistractionfactor">0.003</replace>
	<!--Amount of damage needed to be dealt to destroy one defence drone-->
	<replace sel="/parameters/lowattentioncombat/defence/@dronedamageamount">200000</replace>
In the fight script itself, we can change:

firing range (vanilla = this.ship.size + 5500m; this mod = (this.ship.maxcombatrange.all * (0.4f + ((this.skill.combat + this.skill.leadership + this.ship.pilot.skill.navigation + this.ship.engineer.skill.engineering)f / 20.0f))) + this.ship.size)

time per tick (min="1s" max="4s")

and, to an extent, damage applied per tick. (this calculation is hard-coded, but we can apply modifiers to the result of the calculation.)

........
Thing is, there doesn't appear to be much specific to capship vs station combat so, unless we can isolate what's causing the imbalance, suspect that anything specific (if there is anything) to capship vs station is in the hard-coded damage calculation.

Main difference in capship vs station combat as opposed to capship vs capship combat is that stations are huge. So:
  • ships can't target the station as a whole, (edit: this is apparently wrong. According to Xenon_Slayer, ships target whole stations rather than station components. Oddly, the data I gathered back then suggests otherwise. Could be something other than the OOZ calc in the fight scripts at play.)
  • maneouvering to within a paricular distance relative to a particular station component can bring a ship closer to a different station component rather than further,
  • ships are better able to concentrate fire since there's a greater chance that a particular station component would be in range of all ship turrets, while only a small amount of a station's turrets can fire on the ship,
  • while station components can be destroyed, the station itself cannot, so I've found that ships ordered to attack stations never stop attacking.
That last should, of course, be different with your mod since you've set stations to be destructible.

........
ps. Now that I'm thinking about it, I seem to remember instances where ships were doing null damage to stations. Never managed to isolate the cause, and I seem to remember that when I mentioned it in the patch beta forum, a dev said that it's working as intended. It is possible that it was caused by my ships programmed to fire OOZ from distances beyond the range they're supposed to be able to, and the new OOZ calculations actually taking that into account (they didn't before; still not sure if they do now). Could also be caused by ships continuing to fire on stations which have 0 hull, but aren't destroyed because it isn't possible to destroy them.

........
pps. Just reviewed that OOZ thread in the patch public forum.



This was from around 3.51, I think. Not sure if anything has changed between then and 3.53.

If this is still the case, then capships only disable stations OOZ. They don't try to destroy them.
Last edited by w.evans on Sat, 18. Apr 15, 10:40, edited 3 times in total.
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Just remembered that I added this:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="$target.container.exists">
   <set_value name="$target" exact="$target.container"/>
</do_if>
at one point to make sure that a capship is targeting a station's hull directly rather than station components. Removed it because Xenon_Slayer said that the vanilla script should already target whole stations rather than station components, but that it works differently; so I thought that that change might break something in the internal damage calculations.

The relevant post is here, from the same OOZ thread.
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

W.evans,

First, as you known, sorry by my english. Is difficult to me to just write things. I make a lot of mistypes and have difficulty to "say" exactly what i want.
Thanks to look at this issue.:wink:
Let me clarify my scenario:
- I´m not using your OOZ mod for now because I´m testing stuff
- I made tests with vanilla only and with Better Turrets and Cap Ai overhaul together.
- the results are almost the same OOZ
- as you suggested, I read that thread on the offical beta patch forum. Very interesting.
- I'm just initiating these tests so more robust ones with more ships variety will come
- will then come later with more observations.

But for now:
1. In the above parameters tweaks do you see some that could be that good for "radical" tests? I´m mean, for example, one or two that could really make the ships almost kill the stations? Obviously later I will tuned it down again.

2. The ability to target also the station Hull OOZ is mandatory for me. I understood that you finish in not adding it because Devs sayd that new patch already did it. But I will like to test. Can you point me what and where to add?

3. I made something very interesting and it works (although totally artificial :D): As I know exactly where Conquer_mod calculate the station damage i can cheat it and make the stations blows up OOZ after a good amount of damage without use any complicated real fight calc. This works very reasonable for its intends as X:R yet don´t handle this situation as it must do.
w.evans
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Post by w.evans »

Hey Rubini,
Rubini wrote:1. In the above parameters tweaks do you see some that could be that good for "radical" tests? I´m mean, for example, one or two that could really make the ships almost kill the stations? Obviously later I will tuned it down again.
This:

Code: Select all

	<add sel="//attention[@min='unknown']//apply_attackstrength[@object='$target']" pos="before">
		<do_if value="($target.isclass.station or @$target.container.isclass.station)">
			<set_value name="$result" exact="$result * 100000"/>
		</do_if>
	</add>
should make it so that any ships attacking stations OOZ do 100000 times the damage per tick that they normally would. You could add conditions to the do_if if you want to narrow it down.
Rubini wrote:2. The ability to target also the station Hull OOZ is mandatory for me. I understood that you finish in not adding it because Devs sayd that new patch already did it. But I will like to test. Can you point me what and where to add?
This:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="$target.container.exists">
  <set_value name="$target" exact="$target.container"/>
</do_if>
should work. Just checks to see if a component or surface element is targeted, and switches target to the parent (ship or station). Can't remember where I put it before. Maybe this?

Code: Select all

<add sel="//do_if[@value='$enemies.{$i}.isclass.station']/do_if/find_object_component" pos="before">
  <do_if value="$target.container.exists">
    <set_value name="$target" exact="$target.container"/>
  </do_if>
</add>
Let me know if anything there wasn't clear, or if there's anything more I can do to help.

........
edit: sorry, forgot to mention. Both of the above modifications into aiscripts\fight.attack.object.capital.xml
Rubini
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Post by Rubini »

Many thanks mate! Will test then asap and will post feedback.

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