For whole "target audience" and mr. L Bernd

[rpek32]

but has someone right to say "everything in game is OK"? or its just trolling

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight IMO is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

[lsw1980]

Well that's just their opinion

But leave that for mods to sort out

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]

but has someone right to say "everything in game is OK"? or its just trolling

There is a subtlety there, if that is what they truly believe then just let them. In fact, I do not think anyone here believes that the game is perfect but some still have trust in Egosoft and believe their vision is not as bad as some would like to paint it.

Trolling is generally considered to be repetitive non-constructive critical monologue of anyone or anything.[/OT]

[Orthanc]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

And there you are, at it again... If your opinion is not shared you start lashing out. You see your pattern here?

same thing here http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... t=#4148738

can't you just give people a rest? You were wrong back then, you are wrong now. The game is utter garbage. Most reviews state not only the bugs but the mechanics as flawed. Do you just go on for the sake of going on?

In terms of thread, I thank the OP for compiling it. I really think Ego is kind of detached and needs to be pointed in the right direction. If they live through this fiasco, I hope they'll consider making good games again.

[dzhedzho]

@steelgrey75: To be quite frank - DILIGAF. I am not really interested in debating the merits of reviewing a product that has been released too early, such things are pointless. But all the reviews really highlight is that the game was not ready for release, I have expressed my opinion as I am entitled to and I have quite reasonably explained the basis for my opinion. End of discussion.

I agree with you. In a perfect world nobody would review unfinished games. Because unfinished games would not be released.

[Orthanc]

...

There is no need to comment on the discussion in question, I expressed an opinion - there is no right or wrong yet some people can't accept it... deal with it.

No you don't. As in the other thread you state the same thing over and over again. Repeating stuff does not make you right, you see. You are attacking not expressing, which is a slight difference. And in the process to force your opinion onto others.

I appreciate you being helpful in so many other threads. But as helpful as you are, there seems no way for you to accept other opinions. Sad thing really.

And just because you do not like what I write, telling me not to comment on what you write on a public forum is kind of bad too.

If this was merely a bug ridden game, some of the reviewers might have seen it's glory behind it. The pearl in the bugshell.

But if reviews are unisono bad, well there might be a strong indication that something is, well, how to put it... bad.

edit: oh and please stop deleting your posts makes it look like I made up your reply.

[rpek32]

Just start new game (with latest stable patch), take escort mission, ship (gigurum) spawned in 30 km away from me, when i approach to 10km from him, he dissapeared and new mission marker shows me highway from 50km away from me.
Continue enjoying game. Nothing to say

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

[OT]@Orthanc: I deleted my post because I realised it was starting to breach forum rules. We are not supposed to discuss each others posts in the manner you are obviously trying to initiate.[/OT]

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Just start new game (with latest stable patch), take escort mission, ship (gigurum) spawned in 30 km away from me, when i approach to 10km from him, he dissapeared and new mission marker shows me highway from 50km away from me.
Continue enjoying game. Nothing to say

Escort missions are rather borked at the moment, I have tried a couple and gave up for now. No doubt they will be fixed eventually but it is nowhere near the top of my list of gripes about the game at the moment.

[piep]

even more when outside the game, reading saves to understand what's not working properly in order to report it.

i have a bad news for you
nothing to talk with a person, who like to participate in paid alpha

nice point mate, and that smile just augmented your rhetoric skills for +10 points. You are a crack.

[Orthanc]

I agree with you. In a perfect world nobody would review unfinished games. Because unfinished games would not be released.

I really agree... The argument, that bug ridden games should not be tested is a moot one I think. If the whole package I am about to buy will not work, what's the point of buying.

If the product cannot be used it's kind of worthless.

A can opener without a handle will leave you starving.

Same here. Maybe some parts are good but the product is badly assembled, therefore not usable, therefore eligible to bad reviews.


Make it better egosoft. Not with rebirth. Learn for your next title. And yes, X2 and X3 launch have been bad too. But having a track record like that should not make you try to do it the same way again, but rather do some of the polishing beforehand with your next product.

Broken save games, bad performance? X2 anyone? X3 anyone?

Please do learn from your mistakes and do not sugarcoat with 20k people playing and everything will be nice in 13 patches.

Next time, deliver a product, that maybe mostly works and get better reviews.

[rpek32]

even more when outside the game, reading saves to understand what's not working properly in order to report it.

i have a bad news for you
nothing to talk with a person, who like to participate in paid alpha

nice point mate, and that smile just augmented your rhetoric skills for +10 points. You are a crack.

i try to end our dialogue.
You can say: i enjoy the game, i like it, seems ok.
But in fact: the game is broken, unfinished.

So, facts beat personal opinion everytime. and stay against facts it is like stay on rails agains train.

You can always enjoy the game , but the errors (bad solutions) does not become smaller.

Btw, since i start collect proofs for my tech support, I feel that I get Stockholm Syndrome

Or, when you walk on street when the sky is gray, and rain falls from sky, and you see homeless sick kitty, you can take him to home, wash and cure him and let him live in your home

[Ryan390]

Well I had fun reading everyone's opinion on the game, and of each other!

But honestly, why fall out and bicker over this game? I too have played all the X games, and was let down by this title.

It gives me some comfort to see that it wasn't ''just me'', and that indeed the game has some serious flaws.

However the truth is that the PC gaming industry has suffered from these tactics for quite a number of years now. It's just blatantly obvious with Rebirth, however..

What I mean is, for a long time now, consoles have stripped away most of what was pure in the PC industry, and basically crippled the industry into what it is now. Most games are released on consoles, unfortunately and then either horribly ported onto PC, or in some cases, not even released at all.

There are some exceptions:
Bethesda Softworks are one company that still remembers they grew from a PC only audience.
As such they may have released the latest Elder Scrolls on console first (which is fine, that's where the money is at, after all) - But they still deliver a fantastic, flawless port onto the PC platform.

Unfortunately Egosoft did not honour us in the same way, they actually failed both console (denied release) and PC platforms (abysmal, rushed port)..


It's all been going on for a while, slowly our beloved industry has become a slave to the console/mainstream masses. Which usually means watered down game play and less complexity to suit the simpleton masses..

(Or the people who "I have 15 mins to spare, so I'll stick the game on and shoot some stuff up and watch the sparkly flashy lights")

The new Deus Ex's are another good example of watered-down sequels.
Released on console, they were heavily scripted interactions/events with a watered down augmentation/skill tree. Not to mention linear game play/choice/actions - a shadow of the original Deus Ex, IMO..

Diablo 3, - watered down simplified version of Diablo 2? So they could make money on the X-Box, PlayStation mass maket..

----------------------------------

Unfortunately the money is in the consoles, which is why PC gaming has taken such a back seat over the years.

PC gaming is purely kept alive due to MMO's and the uprising of many indie gamers, who are churning out some fantastic, original titles/ideas!







-----------------------------

Even so, had Egosoft released on consoles successfully, and ported perfectly onto PC, the game would still be a shadow of it's former self..

And the reason is, as mentioned above, every developer keeps trying to cater for the mass market, which unfortunately now is consoles.



P.S - on a side note: I'm not sure why developers keep insisting to dilute the complexity of games for the console market. Console hardware these days is actually capable of handling what they throw at it, especially with the next gen consoles on the market now.

They are assuming that kids aren't smart enough to play games that have depth/complexity - like older PC games.. Really annoying, and the primary reason too why everything these days is so shallow and lacking..

[Orthanc]

The new Deus Ex's are another good example of watered-down sequels.
Released on console, heavily scripted interactions with watered down augmentation/skill tree + linear game play/choice/actions - a shadow of the original Deus Ex, IMO..

Diablo 3, - watered down simplified version of Diablo 2? So they could make money on the X-Box, PlayStation mass maket..

Can I have your babies?

The very same thing I thought for those games. Same thing for Dungeon Siege III and Max Payne 3.

And enter Rebirth.


And you could call resistant to learning by mistakes because I preordered EACH and EVERYONE of these games only to be disappointed.

Rebirth was the last preorder for me. My big hopes lie with the procedural space sim games coming up by indie devs and all the while I go and shoot some Kerbals to the mun

[rpek32]

I go and shoot some Kerbals to the mun

Spoiler

Show

official multiplayer announced btw

[lsw1980]

@Ryan390

Unlike Egosoft a lot of developers have publishers pulling there strings and they won't go near genres that aren't proven million upon million sales. All those marketing campaigns costs need big numbers back.

I also think that the limited scope in games due to the input from a gamepad, I mean look at how horrid it is to do things in Rebirth compared to what it's been like in previous games. All from trying to get it to work on a 360 pad.

[jeroll3d]

The game is good.

[rpek32]

aferall, my UI stall, when i tried to get info about station. cant save/load in options. Only change options and check debug console.
Target audience so... audience: "we like, we love". You cant love one-legged horse, better to shoot her, that she did not agony

[Ryan390]

@Ryan390

Unlike Egosoft a lot of developers have publishers pulling there strings and they won't go near genres that aren't proven million upon million sales. All those marketing campaigns costs need big numbers back.

I also think that the limited scope in games due to the input from a gamepad, I mean look at how horrid it is to do things in Rebirth compared to what it's been like in previous games. All from trying to get it to work on a 360 pad.

Your absolutely 100% correct.

I wanted to mention in my post another reason for the industry becoming the shape it is today. (Exactly what you just said about them not being financially able to take risks) - However I didn't want to go on and on as I felt the post was getting slightly too large..

Your completely correct, creating games, or even commercial software, actually - is very expensive. They go for what works (FPS's shooters, fantasy based RPG's, sports games, ect.. ) - but this means we see the same ideas over and over and they lose the depth of original PC titles.

You made a good point about the controller, too, that's actually a huge reason games are so dumbed down, but there are ways around it for most games, most games don't have anywhere near as many controls as the X games.

Deus Ex for example was an FPS, you can easily map the inventory screens to an Xbox controller button.

Unfortunately there is too much emphasis on graphics and powerful marketing these days, and like you said, too much risk involved with them taking a ''leap of faith'' like the good old days of PC gaming..

------------------------------

Game play always seems to be the feature to take the biggest hit and if there's one thing I've learnt in 20 + years of gaming, it's that game play is everything..

It's why I still think San Andreas is the best GTA to date, even better than 5 - because it had the most game play, it was fun and open..