AP Community Project [Released]

[DrBullwinkle]

maybe a few 'custom' missions to break up the generic sameness...

Nice!

Changing OBS, and other 'core files' (apart from possible bug fixes) will most likely be frowned upon if we hoped to get this signed.

*Sigh*. OBS is not really bugged, but it is really lame. I was hoping that Ketraar and X2-Illuminatus's participation in this project might help to fix things that are important.

And I think that a good case could be made that post-2.5 RRF is buggged, in that it attacks non-player targets. (Especially during missions).

The OBS will work on what you tell it to for difficulty

Interesting. That's for calling OBS from a new mission, right? I was thinking that fixing OBS would improve the entire game with less effort than fixing all of the missions that call it.

I have an OBS system that builds fleets, rather than ships on pure numbers, so instead of getting a pair of M2's and three M5's based on the OBS numbers, you'd get a more realistic M2, a couple of sM7's some M6's possiibly an M8 and a squad of fighters. Could be used as an addition, but not as a replacement for the mainstream OBS.

Interesting. Make it three M2's, an M1, plus the rest, and you have my attention.

Is that something you care to share?

.

[dillpickle]

And I think that a good case could be made that post-2.5 RRF is buggged, in that it attacks non-player targets. (Especially during missions).

How is it bugged if a 'Response' ship attacks hostile ships when it encounters them?

[DrBullwinkle]

How is it bugged if a 'Response' ship attacks hostile ships when it encounters them?

It spoils Assassination, Destroy Convoy, and Defend missions... anything that requires the player to kill something. RRF jumps in and fires missiles before the player can get into range of the target.

My Opinion: RRF should only target player-owned ships, with priority on the player ship. Targeting other races varies between a waste of cpu to spoiling the game.

[eldyranx3]

Ive always wanted to go on to the L0 missions and do some tweaking to the mission time limits and conditions, like adding in a check on the stolen ship mission, stolen ship will bail at 20% hull. Assassination missions could spawn the target as neutral until a player owned ship gets within 5km, then it switches owner to a certain hostile racemask.

However, I think this could be outside of the scope of this project.

[DrBullwinkle]

Ive always wanted to go on to the L0 missions and do some tweaking to the mission time limits and conditions, like adding in a check on the stolen ship mission, stolen ship will bail at 20% hull. Assassination missions could spawn the target as neutral until a player owned ship gets within 5km, then it switches owner to a certain hostile racemask.

Yes, guaranteeing a bail from a stolen ship is one approach, although perhaps too easy. Perhaps you could force the bail at at random hull percentage from 0% to 20%? That would be less predictable, requires skill for some bails, and there would still be a small chance of failure.

Regarding time limits, most of the vanilla times seem appropriate for Commonwealth sectors. However, since Terrans have no jump drives early in the game (and no jump gates at all), some of the mission times for Terran-space missions are crazy short! Many of them are simply not playable until the player has at least a jump-capable TM. Some are not playable, ever, due to the long travel times involved, even with a fast ship.

I thought that Assassination missions do spawn as neutral, then change when you start shooting? Are you saying that they should become hostile before the player approaches? Or something else?

Whether part of this project or a separate mod, it would be cool to tune up some of those generic missions. It seems that there would be a good ratio of development-time to game-fun there.

[EmperorJon]

Want OBS fixes added.

[EmperorJon]

EJ Think Idea 1 - Find Suitable Sector


Mission is created by picking a random nearby sector, and choosing some specific characteristics of it.
For example, the sunlight level, asteroids mineral content, stations there, etc.
When you talk to the NPC they say "I'm looking for a sector which has *lists statistics/needs*".
And then you need to find the one that matches, and once you do it will say "This sector matches" and you go back to them and sell them the data, done!
Obviously it gets more complicated when you think about what if multiple sectors match, or if stations are destroyed part way through, etc...

[eldyranx3]

I thought that Assassination missions do spawn as neutral, then change when you start shooting?

They spawn as neutral to the player, but in my experiences, not to ATF/USC patrol/RRF groups.

I agree that it would be awesome to re-balance some of the lesser played L0 missions, but once again, XS and crew spend a long time building and testing them. A year or longer, at least. Our current project's tentative deadline is in three months. Doable for a linear (or even OFF like) plot. But For quality, bug free re-balancing on L0 libraries?

I'd like to start simple and work from there. As you can tell, I'd be more than willing to pitch with more projects down the road. I suspect we'll get to play with X3AP a while yet before XR comes out.

[Axeface]

I dont think i'll be able to put any time into this project unfortunately, but I do have a model that I made for XTC which isn't going to be used.
I think it's one of my better models so i'de love to see it used and in-game. It's a racetrack, complete with glowing arrows, new asteroids and twists and turns to make even the best pilot crash and burn. I thought it could be added to freedom's reach, as in previous games there was a racetrack there (iirc). Perhaps one of your scripters would like to come up with a script/mission for it?

My vision of it is to have to player teleported into a custom ship for the track (via bbs or conversation), that is invulnerable (the track is completely closed, cant get out), so that the player can crash without dying and continue on. A series of waypoints should time the player, and once the set amount of laps is completed, the player is teleported out again.
If there is any interest i'll try to wrap up the mesh this week. But I dont have my apps or anything installed now. I dont even have the game extracted anymore (pc death).

*Grins at KJ*

One Idea not related to the racetrack. Anyone remember Tachyon the Fringe? Where you could enter an 'arena' and fight other competitors? That would be a great addition to AP i think, just a thought.
Would be amazing if you got the voice actor (saw one i think?) to voice a commentator, hehe

[DrBullwinkle]

Hovis race, yay!

[DrBullwinkle]

There was discussion of special-purpose weapons earlier. Zernon posted an interesting spin on this idea: Targeting Sub-Systems.

[X2-Illuminatus]

I like Zernon's idea. For a special ship I would like to see such a special function rather than something like (for example) compatibility of all weapons.

It's a racetrack, complete with glowing arrows, new asteroids and twists and turns to make even the best pilot crash and burn.

Would you please tell us a bit more about this? Is it some kind of station or stationary object?

I thought it could be added to freedom's reach, as in previous games there was a racetrack there (iirc).

In X3:Reunion there was a space race within the plot. I think in very early early versions of X3R you also were able to repeat that race after the plot. However, it was removed later, as it was rather buggy.

[TrixX]

How is it bugged if a 'Response' ship attacks hostile ships when it encounters them?

It spoils Assassination, Destroy Convoy, and Defend missions... anything that requires the player to kill something. RRF jumps in and fires missiles before the player can get into range of the target.

Can do, but then that's life. Just one of the limitations of the normal game...

My Opinion: RRF should only target player-owned ships, with priority on the player ship. Targeting other races varies between a waste of cpu to spoiling the game.

Which causes any immersion in a living universe to be totally null and void. Which means that the player quickly sees through the window dressing as the AI ships are literally doing nothing but killing the player. Woot great fun I jump into a sector to see a fight between Argon and Terran and then get murdered instantly as they switch focus to the player. Kinda makes RRF pointless in the first place (Race Response Fleets...).

[jack775544]

I agree with TrixX. The whole point of the X games is to make the player feel like a small fish in a big sea. Eventually they become a main powerhouse in the galaxy, but you are still just one of the thousands of people in the galaxy. If you made RRF target only the player then it would make the whole idea of an economy, the war ect. completly useless.

[Killjaeden]

Would you please tell us a bit more about this? Is it some kind of station or stationary object?

It's a model, so it's a "physical course" - imagine it like a tunnel that you have to fly in. It can be a station or a special object, doesn't really matter.

[Ketraar]

Guess it would need to be checked and looked at if something can be done. Is there a way to make a mini-mod so we can spawn it ingame?

But like X2 mentioned, the Race was removed mostly cause its a PITA to make work right so, but maybe a more simpler version could be made.

Also would like to remind that its not the scope of this project to rebalance anything, that includes RRF behaviour.

MFG

Ketraar

[Killjaeden]

Oh btw this race should be considered as "time trial" only - because npc's won't cope with it obiously - the base idea for this model was to present some made up times (lap times from some of us?^^) for him to beat them. You place him at the starting point via script or via dock. He docks from the outside but undocks inside. Then at the finish line there can be an extra small object, something like a membrane (modelled to fit the track) that gets destroyed if he makes contact-> time starts on undock, time stops on destruction of the membrane.

[eldyranx3]

It would be a good way to give away things like the Arrow for beating certain time trials. I don't know if I'd ever use it myself.

Edit: And if we are still looking at the JonFerco Drive idea, the female Split scientist sees the player's hotrod abilities and contacts them to test out her new prototype engine.

[DrBullwinkle]

The Hovis race in Freelancer was a lot of fun.

For those who have not played it, the player had to race a retired ex-military guy named Hovis. If you could be Hovis, then he would help you on a mission.

To make the race more "interesting", missile towers took shots at the player during the race.

Hovis flew a souped-up M5 equivalent and was difficult to beat in a straight race. However, he always missed one of the turns. So a patient player -- flying precisely but not at top speed -- could win.

I have no clue whether such a thing could be done in X3. Any competing NPC would need super-tuned rudder, of course. But I don't know if it would work even with that.

[Killjaeden]

NPC racing through that course is impossible, end of story.